Guns: how much longer will it take ....

@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

so machine guns wre very popular during the post revolution period??

Why are you talking about machine guns? Trying to change the subject?

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

then look in a mirror and you will see your enemy of freedom

It is pretty silly of you to sit there endlessly attacking freedom while I defend it and then falsely accuse me of being the one who opposes freedom.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

once more and I have no idea why youre being so obtuse .
Your argument is that its not a loophole because loopholes are inadvertent ways for getting past rules of which the unrecognized parts allow for evasion. I say BULLSHIT to that thought .

I'm saying it's not a loophole because the way the law was written, they didn't include private sales specifically. People taking advantage of private sales to hid a business they are running is more evading taxes by taking advantage of the lack of private sales law. They are doing it for business/tax purposes, not to bypass the background checks, that's why I don't think it is a loophole in the background check law.

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My argument about taxes is that the "private seller" claims this selling income as ordinary inome (Meaning he worked for it) an, like Al Capone got caught because he did not pay his taxes on winnings, these gun show "private citizens" report it this telling you that youre full of **** because they ARE NOT jut private citizens selling a few guns they had lying about.

So bust them for tax evasion then. The difference between Capone and these guys, is that they are dealing in legal items and Capone wasn't into any legal dealings.

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I dont think you have ever been to gun show because in most states there are NO limits to the number of guns one may purchase per month to "renew their private stock"

I've been to plenty of gun shows and I'm telling you that here in CO the gun laws are exactly as I said they were. The difference is state laws and has nothing to do with federal law. The feds left the regulation of private sales to the States.

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Either youre trying to intelligently deny the very fact that these guys are in business to sell guns but can snake around the Fed rules because of the gun show LOOPHOLES that many states have in effect, OR, (perhaps) you honestly dont know what the hell youre talking about, which is it???

The only loophole that might exist and I would agree to is the exact thing you are talking about. When is someone no longer selling a few guns out of their private collection vs an unlicensed gun business? If I were your state, I would do what CO did and only allow the sale of guns at the gun show with an FFL. All those dudes you are concerned about will suddenly have an FFL and be paying their taxes.

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Guys go to Virgini here they have a 50 gun per month sale limit for "private ownership" (That 600 guns a year).Then they can go over to est Virginia (here I used to buy flintlock guns) and there used to be NO limit on monthly purchases. THEN, they bring the gunw back to Pq and sign up for the summer nd winter gun show seasons and sell maybe a thousand or more guns as a "private gun owner"

Once again, it sounds like those states need to change their laws then as it is a state issue and not a federal issue.

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Youre balmy if you dont call that eluding the rules.

As noted, that is a fault in the state laws, not the federal laws. I see no loopholes in the Federal law, which is where people always want to imply there is a gun show loophole. In my state, there is no "loophole" as you want to call it. All sales at gun shows must take place with a background check, there are no private sales allowed at a gun show.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/jan/07/politifact-sheet-3-things-know-about-gun-show-loop/
This article explains, I think pretty good what we are arguing about. I still insist that they are doing it to get around paying taxes as a business than doing it to get around the background check laws. CO hasn't seen a decrease in gun shows, in fact the Tanner Gun Show is taking place this weekend, I think I might go and check out whats for sale by those FFL holding gun sellers. I haven't been in about 5 years, this conversation will change that.

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Lotsa guns are sold and smuggled into urban areas where they are sold in back lots to criminal types and gang bangers , mostly pistols and shotguns.

Do you honestly think that is going to change with background checks on private sales? I don't think it will change anything in regards to inner city crime stats. After all, a majority of the murders in the US are committed by gang members, unless you remove all the guns from the US, the chances of keeping guns out of their hands is slim.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

Because the advantages outweight the costs, that's all.

What advantages are those? The vast majority of mass shootings take place in "gun free zones", and they will continue to take place in "gun free zones" until we remove those zones and give people a chance to protect themselves. Just like the common crook, if they suspect someone has a gun, they are less likely to engage that person or place out of fear of being shot. Once people realize that schools are no longer easy targets, they will change their minds and hopefully just kill themselves.

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@Olivier5,

Quote:

Sure. Nobody ever said cops shouldn’t carry guns. The topic is precisely about if/what civilians should be allowed to carry.

You can't compare having a gun in a school to having a gun on a plane. One makes sense as no one has tried to commit a mass shooting on a plane, they just fly them into buildings, this is why US Air Marshals and other federal cops are allowed to carry on air planes.
It's funny how you guys on the left talk about teachers. They are either the greatest people on the face of the earth who nuture and educate our children and can do no wrong, or they are crazed killers who shouldn't be allowed to have guns on campus because they could get mad at their classroom and kill the entire student body.

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@Baldimo,

Quote:

I'm saying it's not a loophole because the way the law was written, they didn't include private sales specifically. People taking advantage of private sales to hid a business they are running is more evading taxes by taking advantage of the lack of private sales law. They are doing it for business/tax purposes, not to bypass the background checks, that's why I don't think it is a loophole in the background check law.

Yo Honah, the witness is evading my assertion by agreeing with me but not agreeing with why he agrees. Duuuuhhh

I say tomaytoe--you say Bullhit

1 Reply

@MontereyJack,

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No, it doesn''t. No such mandatre exists ine Constitution. It is avbsolutely silent about carrying guns for self-defense. This is a figment okf the NRA's imagination.

Actually the Constitution and the Bill of Rights are the mandate, the Amendments spell out how that mandate is to be carried out. Why is the 2nd Amendment the only amendment that has the words "shall not be infringed" included in it's wording? To my knowledge, there is no other amendment that says this, am I wrong?

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@Glennn,

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Unlike you, the vast majority of police are not afraid of that.

On the contrary, US police officers keep shooting people whom they are afraid are carrying guns, while I have no reason to fear anyone, and never killed anyone either.

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@Olivier5,

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If anybody in the US could own functional anti-aircraft guns, all sorts of people would be shooting down airplanes over the US right now.

Actually you can own an anti-aircraft gun in the US, although it will vary from state to state and requires the same type of background checks and licensing, class III firearms license, that is required to own a full automatic gun or a suppressor.

There is a guy down in Colorado Springs who owns all sorts of big military equipment, to include tanks which work, and anti-aircraft guns, artillary pieces and other such collectable items. In fact I think he is the owner of one of the largest private military collections in the world, you name it, he has it.
http://dragonmans.com/content/military_museum_dragonmans_colorado_springs

1 Reply

@Baldimo,

He means as easily accessible as rifles.

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@edgarblythe,

If so, then I'd like to see him try to explain just what anti-aircraft cannons have to do with personal self defense against criminals.

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@oralloy,

Hey smarty boy, if you can't get ammunitions for whatever rusted WW2 cannon you can buy on ebay, you don't actually have a functional anti-aircraft cannon. You have an antique, collector piece of weaponery but you can't actually shoot down planes with it.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Hardly rusted. And you can buy non-explosive rounds OK. It's only the explosive rounds that you can't get.

Technically you can legally get the explosive rounds too. The trouble is no one who makes them will sell them to civilians even when it is legal to do so.

Regardless though, what does any of this have to do with personal self defense against criminals?

1 Reply

@Glennn,

Quote:

Unlike you, the vast majority of police are not afraid of that.

I'm not afraid of people carrying guns, as long as they know what they are doing. I've been around more guns and gun-bearing people in my life than you may think.

But tell me something: why do some US police officers pump rounds and rounds of lead into law-abiding citizens yelling: "He's got a gun! He's got a gun", if they are not afraid of people carrying guns?

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Quote:

so machine guns wre very popular during the post revolution period?? Boy I learn a lot here from the obsessed ones

Machine guns are already heavily regulated, we are talking about semi-auto rifles, which are not the same as machine guns. Different classification of weapons.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

Hardly rusted. And you can buy non-explosive rounds OK. It's only the explosive rounds that you can't get.

You gona have to prove that if I'm to believe it.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

But tell me something: why do some US police officers pump rounds and rounds of lead into law-abiding citizens yelling: "He's got a gun! He's got a gun", if they are not afraid of people carrying guns?

I'm not talking about people breaking the law who have no concealed carry permit. I'm talking about people who have concealed carry permits. The vast majority of police are not afraid of them. So why are you?

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

You gona have to prove that if I'm to believe it.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

Quote:

Yo Honah, the witness is evading my assertion by agreeing with me but not agreeing with why he agrees. Duuuuhhh

You have used examples of "private sales" at gun shows to show that people aren't really selling their private collections, they are running a business. Does expanding background checks to private sales stop these examples you have given of people having an "under the table" gun selling business? No, they would only have to do background checks on their gun sales, it would do nothing stop their business and the complaints you made about their business practices of moving from gun show to gun show selling their guns. Your use of "loophole" in the law doesn't jive with your complaint about those people selling guns. This is why I don't see the loophole that you see and want to complain about, nor do I want to justify further restrictions on individuals because you don't like someone having an unreported business.

It's the difference on why they are selling their guns. You say it's to by pass background checks, I say it's to evade business taxes. I don't see your reasoning and the examples you have used as a justification for expanding background checks to private sales vs making sales at gun shows only done via FFL licensed people. You want to expand this into a matter of what is essentially tax evasion due to the # of guns they sell, it has nothing to do with background checks and safety. There is no loophole in the Federal law.

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@Baldimo,

look fool. This whole thing began as a reminder to one a you guys (I think it was orl) who denied that there was NO SUCH THING as a guns show" LOOPHOLE". THATS WAS MY POINT. there IS a gun show loophole, Now if you wanna argue why this loophole is or int valid, Go play with yerself K?

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Guns: how much longer will it take ....

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