Online dating, flirting and dating burn-out.

I missed this whole last page when I posted last.

Quinn1 - yep, nothing major yet. Though mys sister did concede that I was actually able to flirt. That's big news. But, I can only really do it online.

Region - Dad, is that you?

Hope springs eternal. I'll probably go to the MFA's First Friday tonight. Why? Nothing better to do and no money to do it with.

MFA? What's that?

Museum of Fine Arts. They have a monthly event -- which is not necessarily for singles only -- called First Friday. It runs for three hours, beginning at 5:30 and features a cash bar and light food service under the rubric, "tapas." Jazz groups play too loudly in a stone hall. You see people of all ages; some single; some dating and married couples. People use it to meet others or to begin an evening.

Sounds fun. Hope you get lucky!

hmmmm, I never hoid of that, POM.

This is the thread where Slappy was telling how his ex surreptitiously returned him a gifted bottle of perfume.

K, I got worse. Classic case of passive agression.

I came back to Holland for a short bit, and after stops here and there eventually made my way home. Checked the mail. There was the envelope with the basement key, which I left in the mailbox for A. to find her way to her things in the basement (she still had some stuff of hers in the house, and since I was moving out and subletting it to an Italian girl, I had moved them to privacy in the basement). She still has to get her mail there anyway (because of the residency permit), so a mailbox key she already had.

OK, on the back of the envelope now a message from A. to the Italian girl: could you please give this key back to nimh; I dont want to handle the responsibility anymore. "Theres nothing of mine in the basement anymore."

That last sentence immediately caught my attention/raised my suspicion. I know her well. Went down to see. And indeed. Two boxes stuffed full with her things. Not just the things that were left at my place anyway. Everything. They had everything.

All the CDs I ever burnt her. Even the CD with the MP3s she had downloaded herself. The books Id given her, the Brian Froud calendar (which she loved), folded in two. The books she had bought herself in our time of crisis. The cuddly bunnies Id bought her, which she slept with every day; even the teddybear Id sent her when she was still in LA, and in a particularly bad state. Not just my presents to her, tho; even the 2-step CD that she pretty much played 24/7, back then. Its all in there.

'K, now what. I gotta say my first reaction - I was pretty angry, and my gut reaction is to load the whole kaboozle on a bike and ride it over to her place, and hand it to her landlady. Let her get rid of it herself if thats what she wants. She cant just dump the whole thing on me, instead. Its her stuff.

I dunno though. I'm pretty upset about it, obviously (tho not as much as I thought I would be). But I know her enough to think of a second possible reason for her to dump all this stuff in my basement like that - apart from the obvious passive agressive reason, of throwing it all back in my face. Its this: I mean, she probably would throw it all away now, if she had to - she's started over with close to nothing often enough in her life. So I guess dumping it all in my basement could also be a way of not throwing it away. She knows I dont ever throw anything away, so - its like, safe - and still out of the way.

Thats a pretty benevolent explanation tho.

So, way I see it, I got at least three different ways to deal with this. The first is load it all up and tell her landlady to give it to her (she dont know). Here, back to you, none of my friggin business. The second is to swallow it. Take the basement key back and string it back on my keyring, throw away the envelope, dont mention it again (Im no longer in contact with her anyway).

The third is to be passive agressive right back. Leave the stuff in the basement - and leave the envelope, plus key, in the mailbox. Message (and responsibility) not accepted, return to sender. You figure it out.

Right now I feel like doing the third. I'm going back tomorrow night. Dunno. Guys, what do you think?

Interesting.

First one is appealing, but it involves work on your part. Is sort of aggressive, but then, that is not your stuff.

Second one is appealing, but means you will, or possibly should, deal with the basement stuff sometime in the future, to be kind to the owner, whose problem the pile isn't.

Third one - well, I am confused on what would happen. Do you still get the odd other piece of mail there, will the mail person pick up the letter and return it? Plus, again, thinking of the owner and others who may have something in the basement, that key is not really her's to keep, ethically.

Just ruminating.

Basement's mine, its not shared with other residents of the building (that is, we each have our own wired off rectangle space with separate door).

Theres loads of stuff of mine in there too, stuff I removed from the apartment to make some room for my subletter to be able to furnish the place with some of her own stuff. In that sense this is just two or three more boxes/bags on top of many others (theres also stuff in there of a friend of mine who had to empty her mothers house after her death and didnt have enough space, and stuff from a friend who went to Spain I think, still, and ...).

Thing is, if I leave it there, of course, it means I will have to deal with it some future time. If and when my Italian subletter wants to leave again, for example. I dont feel like dealing with two boxes full of extreme emotion that A. chooses to throw back at me.

Also, if I accept A.s note and take back the key (removing it from the mailbox), it means she cant go back on her choice. I'm in Budapest, after all, and I'm not involving my subletter in this. She wouldnt be able to ask it back.

If I leave it in the mailbox, she'll keep coming across it; she has to check it for her own mail, which still gets in there too because of the permit thing. (Basically, my subletter and her are sharing that mailbox, and mail to me still gets there as well of course, which my subletter tells me about if theres anything urgent). Thats pretty agressive in a way too, tho.

Dunno. I'm leaving this country again tomorrow evening...

swallow it, string the key back on the keychain, don't ever mention it again. my 2cents worth..

Leave a note confirming nothing of hers remains in the basement <junk it or donate it or whatever>, and ask for the mailbox key to be left in the mailbox. You are not responsible for her residency requirements - she is. She is an adult, not your child.

I guess I agree, Dag.

I think this was quite a "sandbagging", nimh, with the two boxes of emotion.

A's changing of her mind in time? What can I say, she might. Or as you know her to do new starts... maybe besides passive aggression it is also some self scouring going on.

#2 is the least active or passive aggressive thing you could do - well, you know that. And it does have the benefit of not involving the sublettor.

if A. changes her mind, she knows where to find you or how to contact you, nimh. don't ever let anyone blackmail you emotionally. this is her problem. drop it like a hot potato. don't get dragged into it.

I just read it all again, nimh.

Now I'm so mad I could get on a plane and take the stuff to a dumpster myself.

Don't reopen the boxes for any reason. Get rid of the boxes - keep the basement key - request the mailbox key - and move on.

Oh fer...

I'm plenty mad after reading that, too.

I'm for whatever provides the least escalation and the most closure. Whatever is best for you, long term, period.

I'm not sure what that would be exactly, but something close to what ehBeth suggests, as long as it's not fuelled by anger at her/ intended to hurt her. Just closure and moving on.

Thank you all for your advice ... I really appreciate it. You're a tough crowd! As in stern, I mean, and as in - telling me not to do what would come most naturally. That can be a good thing. In this case, I was already leaning far to option #3, but now, ok ... <thinking>

You and I can be the bad cops, soz, and let nimh be the good cop.



The steam I got on the second reading made my hair get frizzy.

Re-read...

If leaving it in the basement absolved you from ever having to think about it again, that's what I would suggest, but it sounds like it just delays it. This is the last thing I think you need (says the broken record, sorry, I know I've been saying variations of "cut ties/ closure/ move on" for a while now, I know it's not that simple).

I like ehBeth's suggestion of plain get rid of it, donate it, whatever, make it literally not your problem anymore without the escalation/ possible response of giving it to her landlord. She said there is nothing of hers. Don't play the game of figuring out what she really means yet again, her emotional interpreter -- she said something unambiguous. Get rid of it, move on.

Can't we turn him bad? Just a little?

I do tend to get more protective of my friends than of myself... I'll put up with more myself than I think my friends should. Do whatever feels right. Just try to think of YOURSELF more than you are accustomed to, nimh.

You are right about that protective thing, soz.

I was putting up with a lot of crap at work for a while. When the evil machinations of L turned to my friend C, I went ballistic. No one treats my friends with anything less than the respect they deserve. No one.

The v.p. that got involved in the departure of L asked why I hadn't come to him when I was under the magnifying glass. I told him I knew I could take care of myself. But he was right - and you are right in this case - nimh needs to think of himself first. Demand the respect for himself that he offers to others.

nimh, you don't deserve anything less than the greatest of respect - from anyone and everyone - at work and in your relationships.