Online dating, flirting and dating burn-out.

She had thee boobs too. I'm telling ya the net rocks. I even found one personal for a gal who has a whole slew of them, though on some level I do think someone is trying to get rid of their cat and is pulling a fast one.

I agree that elements of online relationships can be conducive to some negative elements. But you just said it best. An "online relationship".

See, to me the internet is what it is. A group of computers and it works well as a means of communication. It's not a subculture. I never use "in real life". The internet feekin' IS real life. I have the bills to prove it. To some, the net is an odd concept and they spend their time wondering about silly things like whether everyone on the site is a robot, impostor or the CIA. For others it's just a series of computers connected with wires.

And IMO "online releationships" make as little sense as "phone relationships" and such. Every day I talk to at least 30 people on the phone that I have never seen. It's business and it doesn't seem scary to me.

What I am stressing is that online personals are probably not much different from any brick and mortar personals. It's the elements of connecting with strangers that carry the dangers. Those dangers can be present in any method of connecting be it bar scene, brick and mortar personals or online personals.

The stories about how great a guy or gal seemed online and how it turned out differently are easily countered with the overwhelming number of stories that you hear about people discovering some elements about someone that they didn't know.

I mean, it's not like the phrase "I don't eeeven knooow youu!" was invented with the advent of the internet.

And I'm damn sure that you can find all kinds of physcologists writing about this but that means nothing to me. Psychology is a flawed science filled with quacks and you can find a pyschologist saying just about anything you want. What I'd like to see are numbers. Show me that the internet is a more dangerous meeting ground in numbers. I know psycology and it means little. Using the same "science" you can draw hugely different conclusions that are both based upon the discipline.

So despite all the grave warnings and fearsome psychobabble can anyone show me that statistically the internet is a more dangerous place? It's not like there are denizens of this underworld that were born here. So you'd need to illustrate that either a disproportionate number of predatorial persons use the internet, that the internet highlights certain elements that "real life" (dear Jebus forgive me for using such a stupid oxymoron) doesn't AND that this translates into a greater number of horror stories.

Because anecdotal evidence is worth squat. I can give tons of anecdotal evidence from my own life that would support a (false) conclusion.

There are indeed some areas in which the net is a medium exploited disproportionately to the brick and mortar world. One example is the recent *statistically* proven surge in pedophilia exchanges. The internet brought back that kind of predatory ring and there is indeed a pedophile underworld that was almost eradicated from "real life".

There are a host of other statistical studies about certain aspects about the internet that bring out a greater statistical probability for danger. Anecdotal evidence simply doesn't pass the muster.

If the anecdotal horror stories are to be accepted then the rosy testimonials about the internet being the best thing since perforated condoms should suddenly gain scientific validity as well.

IMO the "dangers" of the internet are the same as the dangers off of it. It is a tool that each must know to use. If some teenager is posting sexy photos of herself and saying she likes "older men" and agrees to meet all the ones that contact her I would agree that for her teh internet is a very dangerous place. Just as is the whole dang universe for someone that daft.

Sure with different paradigims the situation is different. And possibly certain dangers are more imminent and exploitable. But this is true of everything in life. It all depends on what you are looking for.

I'm looking for a lady who is carrying a black purse because she stole my watch. Many decent upright femfolk have been very helpful in tracking her down. Tee hee. They contact me all the time telling em that they caught her and have my watch and that just brings me one step closer to nailing the culprit.

He he, jes kiddin'. My online personals experiment started a bit ago and I wanted it to be fun at first and I didn't plan to actually meet anyone.

Then this realmean pushy lady forced herself on me and she tured out to be real cool and I consider her a great friend already.

She's married and nothing of the make woopie variety will ever happen but it has already been interesting and made me start taking the personals a bit more seriously.

anywho I posit that religion (cept my new one) is the real danger:

Three boobs? You must be in heaven.....

Well there were four but she gave me one. I have a collection. See it's nice to be able to meet all these nice nermal folk online.

Such a generous woman! Won't it go off?

Lots of the other parts do, I call it "aging". Kinda like a fine wine.

Hmmmm - why on the ran tan so much about this? I mean, about the dangers - not breasts.

Seemed like a good idea at the time. Plus this way I get the prey to lower their defenses.

Plus I rant about all kinds of silly things. I think it's the god in me.

it is certainly SOMETHING in you!

heehee

Hmm, I wote that? <points>

I agree with Craven about most of what he said. All but the part about psychology being a flawed science, but pleeeeeeeeeeese, let's not get into that argument now. I'm too busy. I do want to say however that the points made on the site eBeth linked us to are indeed anecdotal. Further they are not an attempt to investigate the question, but rather they constitute highly moralistic advice with no attempt to present the other side. I find myself wondering what is the agenda being presented there. I'm with Craven, in order to decide if the internet and the relationships it spawns are more dangerous than in person relationships requires some hard data.

Lola - one of the links I provided went to something like 20,000 sites.
If you're interested in looking at the hard research, it's out there, and I'm sure you can find it.

As I said in one of the posts, I'm quite sure this is a difficult thing to discuss for people who are involved in internet romances. In fact, I know it is. I hate talking about it. I also recognize that I need to be aware of the various factors which make it different from being in a daily face-to-face relationship. So - I did my research a couple of years ago. I'm not going to do anyone else's research or suggest what conclusion they will come to - I'll just say that there is a lot of anecdotal evidence on the glories and disasters of internet dating - there is also some good scientific work being done.

online deception
This is interesting and it is clear to see the most sophisticated internet users see the net as non- threatening. I have never tried on line dating but I have a friend who has 2 small children that he has custody of, and his "real life" rule is no one he meets or dates, meets his kids until he has known them for at least two months. The kids dont even know dad is dating whoever......and it is true, anybody can pretend to be something they are not, hold in bad tempers, even hide a spouse or significant other and lie about it, for two months or so.

Some can even do it for a lot longer.

So, at least if you meet someone on the internet you can tell if they can spell!! And at least you can glean a little about their thought processes instead of first focusing on physical appearance.
HOWEVER, I cant
say that I even cared if my partner, whoever it was, could "spell" or read for enlightenment, and had even ever read anything other than Rolling STone until I got past 30!!! But things change.

Life gets more interesting all the time.

Near where I live, we just had a guy plead guilty to coming to our rural area, killing his on-line friend adn her six year old. I say him on the news and he did not look like anyone I would be afraid to speak to on the street or in a restaurant. Maybe not invite him in, but............ so who can say ............

I am not yet involved in internet 'romance' and have only been involved in the internet dating scene for a few weeks. The opinions I shared are not opinions based upon my involvement but rather the disproportionate fears of the internet I have seen.

It's not just about dating it's also about using credit cards online, privacy fears people have on the net etc.

In many respects the internet is much safer than off of it. If one uses it wisely it is very secure.

ehBeth, thanks for the link. I haven't the time now to research, I'm writing a paper. But I have heard some of this reported on NPR. Are there any studies with control groups of face to face relationships? In any case, as you likely know, it's necessary sometimes to take prudent chances. Learning from experience is an important part of living. Without it, we'd all be nowhere. I agree that on line relationships are different in many ways. There are pros and cons in everything. I agree with Craven, that if you're cautious and inform yourself about possible dangers, the internet is likely as safe as a bar or a church group. It's good to know the dangers, but the information I had time to read, which I recognize is far from all there is out there, was not data, it was moralizing and this always turns me off. It's a very interesting subject. I hope I'll have time soon to read some of the research.

I've now met some dozen people personally whom I had first met online. They have been a pretty normal cross section of people that I might meet in any context and I no longer hestitate to meet people this way. Though I had no original intention of romance through my online participation, it did evolve in two cases. Certainly, a female might have greater concerns than a male, but I think that holds true in many other situations as well. Where we lack all the broad range of information we get from seeing and listening to a person in the flesh, in this sort of online conversation, we do get a peek into the psyche which might well take us a while to duplicate in person.

Since 1974, I have had three relationships:my ex-husband, one short-term boyfriend and one long-term boyfriend. I met none of those people on line but in person. The most flawed of these three was my former husband who is a pathelogical liar and who signed my name, as though he had power-of-attorney, to loan agreements totalling more than $100,000.
I would never imagine the loan business. But he is a redhead and we in America, think of redheaded men as sincere: tall boyscouts or grown up HowdyDoodies. The moral: meeting in person is as dangerous as meeting on the internet.

something missing from my education
The struggle for people in our culture as a whole is the ability to articulate what you are truly hungry for, to be satisfied when you get it and to know when you've had enough.

So much of one's self realization and esteem is determined by the relationships we have with others. But how many people are truly happy or content with their situation? An article I read yesterday heralds that "infidelity is the latest craze on the internet". They quote a University of Florida study saying that internet infidelity is growing so rapidly that it will soon become the most common form of cheating on a spouse. Our culture sets the expectation that we find that one special person, we remain monogamous and grow old, happy and content together. I look at my parents and think is that not the model I grew up with? Yet, the divorce rate is so staggeringly high that the chances of failure are as high (if not higher) than success.

I had no idea that there were websites and chat rooms entirely devoted to bored/dissatisfied husbands and wives seeking other bored/dissatisfied husbands and wives for approval, appreciation and adventure, plus, let's face it sex - with no strings attached. Is this just catering to the natural biological tendencies of humans, giving them an accessible outlet to feed their hunger without breaking down the family unit? What does the family unit represent in the 21st century? Less rooted in religious tradition, is marriage simply a public display, an ego stroke for the parents as well as the participants, more a rite of passage or, if you're gay, a societal right? But it still comes down to this: I will marry you because I currently prefer you to all others but I can't promise that this is forever.

Can one really expect a relationship to fulfill one's every hope and dream? And if it doesn't, what is worse - to look outside the marriage for what's missing or to start again from scratch, exchanging one partner for another, hoping that this will be "the one?" Or do you just grin and bear it, allowing yourself to implode with bitterness and disappointment? Is that loyalty, is that respect? And what about the collateral damage since it's not always a mutual conclusion? Who gives you training in these important lessons in life?

pulubear, Welcome to A2K, may your travels be always a joy (I'm sure they will)

pulabear and zincwhite, welcome to a2k and yes, interesting comments.

I was thinking (before I run to step into the shower this morning) that it's a unique opportunity, the internet, in many respects. I've always looked young for my age. Well, "young" doesn't quite describe it, "juvenile" or "innocent" is more correct. Of course, nothing could be more distant from the truth (or very little). I of course, like all of us, have learned to incorporate this look into my persona, my way of communicating with others. It's a fun surprise for some of the new people I meet in person. But on the internet, just look at me. I have these long legs with the stockings, and all........... It's a chance for me to be who I am with a different appearance to present. A chance to express myself (and it is myself I'm expressing here) with a different visual image. Here I'm not the librarian who surprises, but rather I'm more who I am inside. I'm more blatant about it. It's a nice change. Like another dress in my closet. And I'm having fun. I spend a lot of time studying my motivations and my decisions before I act. And it's no less true when it comes to internet relationships. It really, I think, comes down to a person's ability to make reasoned judgements. Of course, a person can make a mistake, but that's true, as Craven points out, of any situation in which I encounter other people. I enjoy my relationships, and my a2k friends are no exceptions. I love you all (if some more than others.)