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Cops Suspect Parents In Missing British Girl Case

 
 
happycat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 08:15 am
wandeljw wrote:
Similarly, Scott Peterson, was highly visible in the search for his missing, pregnant wife. He was a free man for four months before he was arrested.


Very true, it is similar.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 08:15 am
FreeDuck wrote:
Walter, I'm aware that stranger abduction is a very small percentage of actual abductions and missing children cases. However, in these highly sensationalized cases that happycat was referring to, children ARE kidnapped by strangers from their beds. And they usually end up dead. How many parents kill their children and then launch an elaborate scheme to hide the body and then claim abduction to cover it up.? I can think of only Susan Smith. Perhaps you have some experience that will tell us exactly how common such a scenario is.


Agreed.

Re "launching an elaborate scheme", as I said before, this is usually only successful in a Hollywood movie, requiring the likes of Bruce Willis to get to the bottom of it all.

IRL, people are not nearly so good at keeping their ducks in a row. Even if you are 2 intelligent people.

This reminds me of a case that happened years ago, when I was living in South Florida. There was this story being aired live regarding a little girl who supposedly went missing when her mother took her to this big city wide flea market, when the little girl went to the bathroom.

The reason I remember this so well was because I had been to this flea market just the day before, and had used the same restrooms there, so the layout was quite clear in my memory.

The mother described how she stood outside the doors (it was a large public facility with at least a dozen stalls in the ladies room), waiting for her daughter, who never came out.
She said she thought her daughter must have been taken through the window.

I had too thoughts simultaneously....

While it would have been physically possible to somehow lift the child through a small window I remember being there, then holding on to her while climbing through yourself (somehow keeping the child quiet), it really wasn't at all likely. The day the mother was at the scene being interviewed was supposed to be only an hour or so since the girl disappeared, and I know it was a Sunday, because I had gone on a Saturday.

This was a huge flea market covering acres and acres, and always very crowded on the weekends. It would be hard to imagine the ladies room ever being completely empty, in fact, there was usually a line. Also, outside the window was right out in the middle of the flea market.

Well, OK, maybe somehow a person managed to sneak the girl past the mother at the door. It could happen, but I don't think so.

2nd thing was that the mother was referring to the daughter in the past tense. She was crying and the media was around her and there was a lot of commotion, and I'm sure she never realized what she was had done.

Needless to say, the little girl had already been dead for several days. The old boyfriend getting mad and beating her to death story. Found her buried under a few inches of sand.

Now, this mother and boyfriend had several DAYS to come up with a good story, and immediately screwed it up.

Is it impossible the McCanns came up with an alibi that's been strong enough to hold up, with no changes, no slip ups, no lapses in memory.

Sure it's possible. But forensic scientists and physiologists and police etc etc are apt to catch something.

I don't know what happened. But I'm not going to be part of a witch hunt, and project how I would have handled the situation leading up to to disappearance, because, I'm not those people.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 08:18 am
I agree with Chai -- especially with regard to the elaborate planning required.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 08:22 am
I keep wanting to come back to Walter says, and is well known, about the actual probability of a child being abducted (versus the perceived probability) and tie that in with our judgment that the McCann's took an unnecessary risk in leaving their children alone. If the risk was actually minimal (due to the low probability of abduction) then perhaps they weighed it and came to the reasonable conclusion that the children were safe. Only they came out on the wrong end of the odds. Somebody has to win the lottery, as they say.
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happycat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 08:26 am
FreeDuck wrote:
.... shows what mobish and vicious creatures we all really are.


Well, duh.
When have you ever seen humans act otherwise?

Chai - Nothing is impossible - two intellegent people could keep a lie going for as long as it takes if incompetent police screw up evidence.
They're not exactly Gil Grissom and his CSI crew.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 08:30 am
I really could imagine to leave toddlers alone when I'm only going next door.

But as already often said and linked here:
- they were in a foreign country,
- they didn't lck their apartment,
- it isn't a 'closed' resort but the various aprtments are spread over the village,
- no guards there - anyone can wander in and out of the holiday areas,
- the Tapas Bar is 120 m away and out of site of the apartment's door/windows.


There are lotteries and lotteries ...
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Mame
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 08:31 am
I am still undecided about how the child went missing, also, but I now tend to lean towards the parents simply because the odds of a stranger going into the apartment so close to where the parents were enjoying their wine (and presumably other people were about) and the child not screaming or shouting (unless, of course, she was medicated) and not being noticed is a tall one.

Usually the police look close to home for the culprits.

This is so much like the Jon-Benet case, which I still believe was an inside job.

So many times you find the parent/s are involved somehow. Strangers usually abduct kids when they are alone or in a crowded place, enticing them with candy and whatnot. They don't usually enter the home.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 08:36 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
I really could imagine to leave toddlers alone when I'm only going next door.

But as already often said and linked here:
- they were in a foreign country,
- they didn't lck their apartment,
- it isn't a 'closed' resort but the various aprtments are spread over the village,
- no guards there - anyone can wander in and out of the holiday areas,
- the Tapas Bar is 120 m away and out of site of the apartment's door/windows.


There are lotteries and lotteries ...


So were the odds of stranger abduction increased by the things you list, or was it still roughly a million to one?
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happycat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 08:38 am
Mame, you mobish, vicious creature! :wink:


I still wonder about the brother in the Jon Benet case.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 08:41 am
Mame wrote:
I am still undecided about how the child went missing, also, but I now tend to lean towards the parents simply because the odds of a stranger going into the apartment so close to where the parents were enjoying their wine (and presumably other people were about) and the child not screaming or shouting (unless, of course, she was medicated) and not being noticed is a tall one.


Yet children have been abducted from slumber parties, rooms they shared with siblings, and homes where their parents slept nearby. These children didn't shout or scream or alert others to their distress.

When my children have been asleep for a few hours, you could pick them up from their bed and throw them over your shoulder without them so much as opening an eye.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 08:43 am
There is also the possibility that Madeleine wandered off on her own, though, and that something happened to her at that point. One of the scariest moments of my life was when we were staying in a hotel and sozlet wandered out into the hallway without my knowledge. E.G. was already up and gone, sozlet was still sleeping, and I was reading in the bathroom because I didn't want to bother her. We had previously stayed in the same hotel but in a suite, with a door connecting the bedroom to the rest of the room. (These were trips to Columbus before we moved here.) This time it was a regular hotel room, where the only door led to the hall. She went looking for me and went out the door, which closed and locked behind her.

I didn't consciously hear anything but I went to check on her within what turned out to be seconds -- didn't find her, started to panic, opened the door to the hallway and she there she was, being carried back by a cleaning person. The whole episode lasted maybe 2 minutes total but was terrifying.

So perhaps Madeleine couldn't sleep or had a bad dream and went in search of her parents, and that ended badly. (At least with her being separated from her parents for an extended period of time -- I'm still hoping, if not entirely rationally, that she'll show up alive at some point.)
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 08:44 am
FreeDuck wrote:

So were the odds of stranger abduction increased by the things you list, or was it still roughly a million to one?


No idea, really.
Perhaps, if I knew the place by own eyesight ...
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 08:46 am
That's a very good point and a good possibility. I can see a child waking up, especially in an unfamiliar place, and wandering about looking for her parents. I thought before that she could have wandered to the beach and drowned but then I saw that the resort wasn't that close to the beach.

What you describe reminds me of a case I read about where a toddler wandered outside in the middle of the night and fell in the snow and was technically dead when they found her, but revived. I'm going to see if I can find it.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 08:50 am
FreeDuck wrote:
What you describe reminds me of a case I read about where a toddler wandered outside in the middle of the night and fell in the snow and was technically dead when they found her, but revived. I'm going to see if I can find it.


The frozen toddler case -- pardon the diversion.
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happycat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 08:58 am
sozobe - Those are horrible seconds though. Once when my daughter was about three, she was under/in the middle of a circular rack of blouses in a store about 5' away from me and it was the most immediate, sickening feeling to look around and not see her. She thought it was funny.

I'm assuming that anyone can go to that bar, not only people staying at that resort. Someone, anyone, could have been near the parents at another table or at the bar and overheard them talking about checking on the kids that were alone in the room asleep.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 09:02 am
There are only 3 possible explanations for Madeliene's disappearance

-she wandered off by herself

-she was abducted

-her parents were involved in her disappearance and are lying.


Only the second bears any scrutiny.
0 Replies
 
happycat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 09:08 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
There are only 3 possible explanations for Madeliene's disappearance

-she wandered off by herself

-she was abducted

-her parents were involved in her disappearance and are lying.


Only the second bears any scrutiny.



Well, ok then. Call the police and let them know what you've decided.

There is a fourth explanation - maybe she was abducted by aliens.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 09:31 am
happycat wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
There are only 3 possible explanations for Madeliene's disappearance

-she wandered off by herself

-she was abducted

-her parents were involved in her disappearance and are lying.


Only the second bears any scrutiny.



Well, ok then. Call the police and let them know what you've decided.
The PJ know damn well Madeleine was abducted. Thats why they are so busy trying to frame the McCanns.


ooooo but you cant say that steve, well tough I just did.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 09:59 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
There are only 3 possible explanations for Madeliene's disappearance

-she wandered off by herself

-she was abducted

-her parents were involved in her disappearance and are lying.


Only the second bears any scrutiny.


Only the second bears any scrutiny IN YOUR OPINION; obviously not everyone agrees with you. She COULD have been abducted or the parents COULD have been involved, so obviously, the second and third bear scrutiny. Don't be so close-minded. They COULD be involved, Steve.

Are you always so adamant about things you don't know everything about?
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Sep, 2007 10:10 am
Mame wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
There are only 3 possible explanations for Madeliene's disappearance

-she wandered off by herself

-she was abducted

-her parents were involved in her disappearance and are lying.


Only the second bears any scrutiny.


Only the second bears any scrutiny IN YOUR OPINION; obviously not everyone agrees with you. She COULD have been abducted or the parents COULD have been involved, so obviously, the second and third bear scrutiny. Don't be so close-minded. They COULD be involved, Steve.

Are you always so adamant about things you don't know everything about?
and as happy cat said she COULD have been taken by aliens. Ok lets talk probability. Wandered off 0.01 Parents lying 0.02 Alien abduction 0.00000000000000000000000000000000001 Human abduction (by subtraction) .9699999999999999999999999999999999999

I'm not certain and not closed minded just 97% sure.
0 Replies
 
 

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