Having affair with happily married man?

And yes there was a verbal outline of what each of us expected in the relationship.

Only an idiot goes in thinking that they know what the other person expects and wants.

Bella Dea,

Again, quit dodging and answer the question: Do you agree and discuss ahead of time, and outline in black and white, in its entirety, exactly how you are going to have sex, and whom is going to do what to whom and when?

The fact that you can't answer the question as asked shows the truth that your view is a very simplistic, romanticized idealization and it's not "all about what was agreed upon in the relationship", far from it in fact.

I've answered the question. If you don't like the answer, that's your problem not mine.

And I am not going to go around and around with you. So repost the same tired thing again and I'll just ignore it.

Nope you have not answered the question, you have responded to my question with a dodge.

Bella Dea,

Again, quit dodging and answer the question: Do you agree and discuss ahead of time, and outline in black and white, in its entirety, exactly how you are going to have sex, and whom is going to do what to whom and when?

The fact that you can't answer the question as asked shows the truth that your view is a very simplistic, romanticized idealization and it's not "all about what was agreed upon in the relationship", far from it in fact.


I'm not a fan of disingenuousness, I'm out'a here.

What is it you are looking for?

You want to know if she tells her husband what to do to her in bed before she strips every night?

And that he tells her what to do to him?

Im sort of missing your point here too I guess.

It sounds to me like you are looking for an answer that would include something like " Before we have sex, I tell my husband to do A,B, and C, and he says do C, B, and G" and then and only then do we have sex.........




or am I missing something?

It 's not hard to understand

shewolf,
chumly won't answer you directly or explain further because he can't.

His questions have little if anything to do with the topic at hand, which was infidelity in a relationship. Why he is so interested in other peoples specific sexual practice in their monogomous and private relationship is beyond me. Or why the other vast amount of a relationship pertain to infidility in a marriage.

You could ask him but I am sure he won't answer you.

Your drivel is wholly unsurprising given you have been proven wrong as per "It's all about what was agreed upon in the relationship."

It's specious to claim a relationship is only "about what was agreed upon". It would also appear you are not honest enough to admit when you're wrong.

If a couple decides at the beginning of the relationship (or at some other specific point) that they are going to be sexually monogamous, they don't really need to announce it each day/morning/evening.

In the same way, if specific boundaries in terms of sexual activity have been set out, they don't need to be confirmed each day/morning/evening.

What was a no-go remains a no-go until it's discussed.

It's a fairly simple principle.

~~~~~~~

Kids. Dogs. Husbands. The same rule applies - if I said no yesterday/a week ago/when we married - it's still no today.

~~~

Tempted to toss in a couple of happy ad hominems, but I'll be on vacation soon enough.

Your post changes not one whit the sweeping specious claim of Bella Dea's that a relationship is only "about what was agreed upon". It plainly obvious that relationships are far more than simply "what was agreed upon".

As to your post specifically, by your obtuse logic I would not be able to respond with "maybe"!

Also to the point, your preoccupation of verbalization as per communication is myopic given the numerous other levels that relationships function on.

Further, non-verbal communications do not rely on the specious claim that a relationship is only "about what was agreed upon". In fact the sum total of non-verbal interactions plays a larger role in relationships than "what was agreed upon".

I hope you don't leave. I've enjoyed your posts on this thread. I understand where you're coming from. And I don't know how or why--I didn't even know it was possible to fall in love by reading someone's words on an internet message board, to tell you the truth--but holy shitballs, lady, I think I have done just that.

I'm single, 38 years old (or somewhere around there--I don't really remember--who keeps track of such trivial things?), I have a job (for the moment, at least--god, does work suck or what?), I have kept a cat alive and more or less healthy for over twelve years, so you know that I can nurture the brood of children that you seem to have planned for us, and I have these freakishly thick big toes that I can do magic things with in the bedroom, if you know what I'm sayin...

So what do you say, ironicbliss...wanna get hitched?

Holy shitballs?
You're killin me....
Yee haw welcome to A2K, huh? man, what a bunch of smart, blunt, bitchy, hilarious, dry, practical, left wing straight laced folks...gotta say its frigging entertaining. (Notice the lack of actual swear words...31 days nic-free and roughly 24 hrs affair free turns a trucker to a lady...tee hee!)
I must say the picture you used is uncomfortably intriguing, kickycan. And we have the toe thing in common. But at the very least after all the merde I just put myself through I'm sticking with total strangers...not ones I just bared all my misdeeds to...
No really I'm afraid if I even joke on here shebitch or bellyup will attack!!
By the way wolf lady...why DID it piss you off so much that I said you were kind of a bitch when 1. A bitch is a female dog, which you seem to use as your picture, and 2. You put a quote right by your name that says you actually ARE 'one sadistic bitch...guess your not used to people calling you what you beg to be called...even though I said that your really only 'kind of' a bitch...Ha ha!!

Bella dea...gotta ask you...what gives? I mean in your book anyone who doesn't think like you is either a loser or an idiot...what if they just weren't handed out the rule book when it came around? Ha ha...yeah the rule book...for Americans. The one they should have given some of us in fourth grade...right about the age we started figuring out that adults are doing strange stuff...called...Humping.
But instead they gave us "sex education". Mind you they never mentioned love, or the importance of marriage vows. Oh, but some of us got lucky and went to some seventies counselor who tried to find a tactful way to describe why mommy and daddy broke up, when really it was because mommy cheated, but mommy says it was dad who did it first...but is anyone saying its wrong? No. Just things like "Sometimes people just can't get along, but everyone still loves you..." And then the guilt they feel at screwing things up leads them to never admit the most important part...that it was wrong to cheat. So where does Junior or Muffy learn to not be a 'loser' or an 'idiot'? And wasn't that really the crucial time to learn it? Sure as adults we learn, but usually by mistake...like me...the idiot who fell for the loser. The loser who's just never learned.
Right, so its NEVER that simple...because that little example is about one out of every five kids reality. I should know, I nannied half of the kids in my area and watched it go down. You should see the problems THEY have now with love..in their early twenties. A pity I was raised similarly, or I could helped shed light for them early. But even if you told them, could anything stop them from finding out by screwing up?
So the whole old fashioned marriage thing? Its not working...in general. People are evolving, for one thing. The vows never did. My brother and his wife created their own, saying they'd respect eachothers growth...sounds good to me!! Glad its working in your bubble, and in many otheres too...but reality is every one of us wants love, and when it comes in a flavor that our hearts have been thirsty for its hard to resist. Hard for the unmarried person, but even harder for the married one...who has sentenced themselves to one brand of love... with the same tone of voice, the same smell, the same wonderful, obnoxious, beautiful, predictable love. And may be very happy with it. But I can imagine when someone who feeds a whole different part of their soul comes around it must seem sad and wasteful to resist. Wrong or right loses meaning, they still love their partner profoundly, but want to be around someone who can appreciate a different side of them.
So its pointless to call people losers or idiots because they're not in you're bubble land. And besides its just ignorant. Go travelling around in different cultures and you'll feel how ignorant it really is. And when you see how much more UN fearful, loving, and open minded other cultures can be, come home and check out the level of fear...the refusal to be compassionate...the rule books being thrown. Theres no place like home to take the true sweetness out of life and love.
Need you be yet another messenger of that?

Chumly...I'm a singer songwriter...not doing much right now either, as my voice is gone...since I quit smoking!! Wierd, huh?

Ironicbliss -

Not all the females here are ready to jump down your throat. The only advice I can give you about that is to ignore any bitchiness. And as for you and Mr Can - you are clearly made for each other.

And he's single!

x

And when he is sitting across the table from you, you just want to reach over and run your hands through his curly hair and then, er,

um, er,

Joe(okay, the feeling's gone.)Nation

Speaking of being judged...before you judge me, read some of my 13,000 posts. Then you can judge me.

I have my personal guidelines for life and when someone asks for advice or an opinion, I give it. Again, if you'd step back a minute, you don't have to take any of my advice or read any of my opinions.

Are you against integrity? Honesty? Because it sure seems that way.

So, in answer to your question, no. I love the fact that people don't always think like me. I wouldn't have posted over 13,000 here if I didn't.

And I still think this guy is a loser.





Oh my god, for the love of all that's holy....take the freakin' wax out of your ears for a minute. Why do you people insist on making this about "traditional marriage"? I am talking about integrity and honesty. Not specific marital guidelines or specific vows of fidility one must take to have a good marriage.

I've said it over and over (but no one listens because you all have to think I'm some conservative, romantic nut) that what you decide to do in your marriage or parntership is a-ok with me. But when one person deviates from the agreed upon boundaries, you cross into betrayal and lying. Both are what destroy marriages. Not the actual cheating. The lying. The betrayal. The dishonesty.

And that is not ok. Sorry if that offends you but it's not ok to me.



Uh, that's what separates us from the other animals. Our abnility to control ourselves and our actions. If you want to be with someone else, grow some balls and either break it off with your spouse or sit down and tell them what you want. Going behind their back is deceitful and sneaky and how that can be ok in anyones book is beyond me. If you love someone so dearly, why do you want to hurt them?



My bubble land...that made me laugh. I also posted (which you conveniently missed) that you should tell us if this is in a culture with a don't ask don't tell mentality. But you didn't and you probably still won't because you know that deep down what this guy did is just plain shitty to his wife (who he loves so dearly).

I am one of the most tolerant people you'll meet. But I have no tolerance for liars and people who refuse to take responsibilty for their own actions and thoughts. People like cheaters who can cheat on the person they claim to love but can't talk to them or be honest with them.

That's where my tolerance runs out.

Just when I think the sh!ts gonna fly, Bella goes and gets all rational on us. :wink:

Moi? Rational?

Haven't you been following this thread? I am anything but rational. I am a stupid romatic who simplifies everything to the point of stupidity.

But I will back you up on this one Bella. I understand exactly the point you are trying to make and I agree 100%. For those who are a bit dense, it boils down to this. If the guy Ironic had the fling with had the permission of his wife, ie she knew and had her ok to sleep with someone else, then no foul. All is honky dory. But if he did not, then he is a cheating, lying SOB who is not worth the time of day. And while of course it is his fault for stepping out on his wife, Ironic enabled him by being a willing partner with a guy she knew was married. Says a lot about the values of both of them.

I find it strange that Bella keeps getting flak from Ironic and others for taking the stand that marriage vows mean something unless both parties to the vows agree to deviate from those vows. I guess a person's word and reputation isn't worth what it used to be. Go figure.