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At least 20+ dead students in Virginia Tech; shooter dead

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 08:43 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
. . . perhaps it is collective madness. Either that or cowardice on behalf of political leadership.


I'd say that both factors are important in explaining why there is not effective control of firearms in American society.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 08:45 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
HokieBird wrote:
There are millions of illegal guns in Britain and that number is growing. So is the violent crime rate, and the disarmed citizens are highly dependent upon law enforcement for protection. You gave up your right to protect yourselves, but we have not. We realize that once relinquished, that right won't be easily regained.

We're not so naive to think that any criminal anywhere will obey gun control laws.
And neither am I. So your solution to illegal weapons would be to make them all legal? The problem of too many guns in society is solved by selling more guns? Thats not just naive its silly. And dangerous. We have not given up any right to protect ourselves btw.

I really get the impression that for a lot of Americans the issue of gun control is not a hot button issue for reasons of public safety, or constitutional rights, but because they like playing with guns. On the other thread Farmerman said American society was immature. I wouldn't be so discourteous.

Speaking only for myself, I've never owned a gun in my life, and believe, like our Founding Fathers did, that it's a question of an individual's right to self-protection from those who might seek to deprive him of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, including his own government.

Speaking of courtesy, don't you find it interesting that you're having so much fun insulting our country, and none of us has lowered himself to insult your country? In so saying, I'm distinguishing between disagreeing with a country's laws and actually insulting it.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 08:47 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
HokieBird wrote:
There are millions of illegal guns in Britain and that number is growing. So is the violent crime rate, and the disarmed citizens are highly dependent upon law enforcement for protection. You gave up your right to protect yourselves, but we have not. We realize that once relinquished, that right won't be easily regained.

We're not so naive to think that any criminal anywhere will obey gun control laws.
And neither am I. So your solution to illegal weapons would be to make them all legal? The problem of too many guns in society is solved by selling more guns? Thats not just naive its silly. And dangerous. We have not given up any right to protect ourselves btw.

I really get the impression that for a lot of Americans the issue of gun control is not a hot button issue for reasons of public safety, or constitutional rights, but because they like playing with guns. On the other thread Farmerman said American society was immature. I wouldn't be so discourteous.


I don't see where he said ANYTHING you posted in your reply.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 08:51 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
Speaking only for myself, I've never owned a gun in my life, and believe, like our Founding Fathers did, that it's a question of an individual's right to self-protection from those who might seek to deprive him of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, including his own government.


This specious crap. In the first place, the "Founding Fathers" did not write the Second Amendment--the members of the First Congress did so. That it was not written by the "Founders" ought to have been obvious given that it is an amendment to the constitution which was ratified.

Furthermore, there is no language in the Second Amendment which states that the purpose of the amendment is to afford the individual the opportunity to protect themselves from others who "might seek to deprive him of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." That turn of phrase comes from the Declaration of Independence, and is a reference to the unalienable rights with which all men are endowed. Finally, there is nothing in the text of the Second Amendment which even remotely suggests that the purpose is to allow the citizen to protect him- or herself from the government.

It is precisely because such wild-eyed and completely specious arguments are greeted with a serious respect by the gun lobby that no reasonable dialog on the subject is possible. You're just making sh!t up.
0 Replies
 
HokieBird
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 08:54 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
HokieBird wrote:
There are millions of illegal guns in Britain and that number is growing. So is the violent crime rate, and the disarmed citizens are highly dependent upon law enforcement for protection. You gave up your right to protect yourselves, but we have not. We realize that once relinquished, that right won't be easily regained.

We're not so naive to think that any criminal anywhere will obey gun control laws.
And neither am I. So your solution to illegal weapons would be to make them all legal? The problem of too many guns in society is solved by selling more guns? Thats not just naive its silly. And dangerous. We have not given up any right to protect ourselves btw.

I really get the impression that for a lot of Americans the issue of gun control is not a hot button issue for reasons of public safety, or constitutional rights, but because they like playing with guns. On the other thread Farmerman said American society was immature. I wouldn't be so discourteous.


I really get the impression that many of the people who write about the evil of firearms are simply afraid of them, and much of that fear stems from ignorance.

Gun control only takes weapons out of the hands of law abiding citizens. and every country has examples of deranged and evil people who have committed unspeakable crimes. The people that plan and commit these acts find a way to get weapons regardless of the law. We are kidding ourselves if we think otherwise.

South Korea has some of the strictest gun control laws, yet it's also the country with the worst mass killing (58 dead, I believe). Whatever the reasons for Cho's fatal rampage, removing the right to own guns is not the answer.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 09:05 am
BBB
Well, I see that the gun control debaters have once again subverted a thread that was intended to concentrate on the Virginia Tech shootings. Why can't you create your own gun control issues thread and leave this thread to it's original purpose? Please!
BBB
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 09:08 am
HokieBird wrote:
Gun control only takes weapons out of the hands of law abiding citizens. and every country has examples of deranged and evil people who have committed unspeakable crimes. The people that plan and commit these acts find a way to get weapons regardless of the law. We are kidding ourselves if we think otherwise.


This is dumb. The purpose of gun control in America is to keep guns out of criminals hands, not law abiding citizens. Why do you think there's background checks? So that only criminals can have guns? Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 09:12 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
Speaking only for myself, I've never owned a gun in my life, and believe, like our Founding Fathers did, that it's a question of an individual's right to self-protection from those who might seek to deprive him of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, including his own government.

Speaking of courtesy, don't you find it interesting that you're having so much fun insulting our country, and none of us has lowered himself to insult your country? In so saying, I'm distinguishing between disagreeing with a country's laws and actually insulting it.
Where have I been insulting towards the United States? I've not said anything that hasn't been said a thousand times over by American gun control advocates. I argue the way I do because I find some American attitudes towards gun ownership quite inexplicable. Did the Founding Fathers really believe life liberty and the pursuit of happiness was dependent on gun ownership?

btw if you want to have a pop at Britain, be my guest. Here's one for starters...we dislike shooting so much the Royal Navy surrenders on sight
0 Replies
 
HokieBird
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 09:13 am
Re: BBB
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Well, I see that the gun control debaters have once again subverted a thread that was intended to concentrate on the Virginia Tech shootings. Why can't you create your own gun control issues thread and leave this thread to it's original purpose? Please!
BBB


From the second page of this thread:
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2613849&sid=55cafcf11a7ac2190e5c31df4c13327a#2613849

And your contribution on page 2 as well.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 09:19 am
HokieBird
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Well, I see that the gun control debaters have once again subverted a thread that was intended to concentrate on the Virginia Tech shootings. Why can't you create your own gun control issues thread and leave this thread to it's original purpose? Please!
BBB


HokieBird, apparently, you don't intent to honor my request? Why?

I'm wondering why you chose HokieBird as your ID. Is it to exploit the dead students to further your anti-gun control opinions?

BBB
0 Replies
 
HokieBird
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 09:41 am
Re: HokieBird
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Well, I see that the gun control debaters have once again subverted a thread that was intended to concentrate on the Virginia Tech shootings. Why can't you create your own gun control issues thread and leave this thread to it's original purpose? Please!
BBB


HokieBird, apparently, you don't intent to honor my request? Why?

I'm wondering why you chose HokieBird as your ID. Is it to exploit the dead students to further your anti-gun control opinions?

BBB


The thread was "subverted" beginning on page 2. You're just now getting around to realizing that?
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 09:46 am
Re: HokieBird
HokieBird wrote:
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Well, I see that the gun control debaters have once again subverted a thread that was intended to concentrate on the Virginia Tech shootings. Why can't you create your own gun control issues thread and leave this thread to it's original purpose? Please!
BBB


HokieBird, apparently, you don't intent to honor my request? Why?

I'm wondering why you chose HokieBird as your ID. Is it to exploit the dead students to further your anti-gun control opinions?

BBB


The thread was "subverted" beginning on page 2. You're just now getting around to realizing that?


Please stop playing games and start or post on a gun control thread and stop diverting the thread I started.

BBB
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 10:02 am
As the author of the thread BBB has every right to make the request and I for one will comply

there is already shooting going on here

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=83730&start=640
0 Replies
 
HokieBird
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 10:06 am
Re: HokieBird
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
HokieBird wrote:
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Well, I see that the gun control debaters have once again subverted a thread that was intended to concentrate on the Virginia Tech shootings. Why can't you create your own gun control issues thread and leave this thread to it's original purpose? Please!
BBB


HokieBird, apparently, you don't intent to honor my request? Why?

I'm wondering why you chose HokieBird as your ID. Is it to exploit the dead students to further your anti-gun control opinions?

BBB


The thread was "subverted" beginning on page 2. You're just now getting around to realizing that?


Please stop playing games and start or post on a gun control thread and stop diverting the thread I started.

BBB


You diverted it yourself. Stop pretending you didn't.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 10:17 am
HokieBird
HokieBird, apparently you are the sort of poster very detrimental to the success of A2K. I will ask the Moderators to lock this thread as a result of your lack of consideration.

BBB
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 10:20 am
Quote:
Radio Netherlands Press Review Service
* RNW Press review - Monday 23 April 2007 - by Mike Wilcox

* Stress, depression and anxiety

Meanwhile, the headline in the AD says psychologists in universities and colleges of further education "have their hands full", with "stress, depression and anxiety on the increase". Psychologists at a Rotterdam university face 500 new referrals a year. "We can't take anymore and have a waiting list," says one.

We read of an incident at a university in Tilburg where one disturbed student was wielding a baseball bat. A member of the Student Advisory Board says: "Thank goodness guns aren't freely available in the Netherlands".

Nuff said.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 10:31 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Steve 41oo wrote:
I think there are powerful vested interests in America who are keen to close down rational debate on this issue, fearing the inevitable conclusion.

You're wrong. Most of the political Left won't touch it, because the majority of Americans don't want it.

This is straight-out wrong. A majority of Americans does want stricter gun laws.

Here's a poll fresh off the press:

Quote:
Associated Press-Ipsos poll conducted by Ipsos-Public Affairs. April 17-19, 2007. N=996 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.1 (for all adults).

"Should gun laws be made more strict, less strict, or remain as they are?"

47% More Strict
11% Less Strict
38% Remain as They Are

See Polling Report.

The thing is, for that majority that is in favour, the issue isnt important enough to swing their vote one way or another. Whereas the minority that is opposed to any tightening of the laws considers it an important enough issue to let their vote depend on it. And they make up a large enough minority to be able to swing most any election.

Thats why pushing gun control doesn't help Democrats. They've already got most of the vote of those in favour, and the remainder isnt particularly driven by the issue, whereas crucial swing voter blocs in the Midwest and West are passionate about their opposition to it. And thats why nothing will happen: the anti-any gun control minority is fanatic enough to hold the silent majority that would approve of some tightening hostage.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 10:40 am
nimh wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
You're wrong. Most of the political Left won't touch it, because the majority of Americans don't want it.

This is straight-out wrong. A majority of Americans does want stricter gun laws.

<snipped>

See Polling Report.

Make sure to look at the long-running Gallup poll on the matter as well, which shows a consistent majority of 51-78% for "More strict [laws covering the sale of firearms]", compared to a minority of 17-38% that wants the laws to be "kept as now", and a tiny minority of 2-12% wanting "less strict" laws.

Again, the silent majority is for stricter gun laws. But when casting their vote, the issue is just one out of many to most of these people, whereas the anti-gun control minority, as evidenced here as well, is passionate if not outright fanatic about the issue, and will throw any election the other way if a candidate dares to speak up about it.

Basically, America is kept hostage by people like cjhsa, on this issue.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 10:44 am
cjhsa is a gun freak. Like most people fixated on one issue they can't see or accept anything outside of their cage.

We have a president like that and you can see the mess we're in.
0 Replies
 
HokieBird
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Apr, 2007 10:45 am
Re: HokieBird
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
HokieBird, apparently you are the sort of poster very detrimental to the success of A2K. I will ask the Moderators to lock this thread as a result of your lack of consideration.

BBB


There's been discussion of gun control in some form or another on every single page of this thread since page 2, yet you single me out as "detrimental"?

Here's your own contribution from page 44:
http://www.able2know.com/forums/a2k-post2619057.html#2619057

You didn't start calling for a locked thread until you saw viewpoints different from your own. Admit it.
0 Replies
 
 

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