Being against illegal immigration doesn't make you a racist.

I wonder if the NCLR would loan me some money for higher education?

I bet the KKK would.

Can't help yourself can you? Presented with an argument against which you have no defense, you attack the poster.

CJ,

My point is very simple.

The KKK is not a racist organization because it offers scholarships. It is a racist organization because they attack and defame other ethnic groups, including Latinos.

Ironically the KKK makes the same argument that you are making, that THEY are not the racists. The KKK claims that it is La Raza are the real racists.

Of course, when La Raza starts defaming blacks and Jews, spreading conspiracy theories about race wars, and burning crosses to intimidate people-- then you and the KKK will have a point.

ebrown, as the theory goes according to what I have heard from liberals, it is impossible for minority groups to be racist, right? Only groups that spring out of what is perceived as the majority race, or in the case of the KKK, white, can be racist. Sensible and unprejudiced people whatever our heritage are against racist groups whatever the color, whether they are white, black, brown, or whatever. Can you say the same, or do you also buy the theory that all groups purporting to push minority rights no matter what they do or advocate cannot be racist? In other words, do you agree with the double standard, one for some sets of people, and another for other sets of people?

You obviously didn't read the post directly above yours.

I read it. You did not answer the question.

What they are saying is that minorities can not be racist. Only white people have hate in their hearts and the rest of everyone else is just misunerstood.

E_brown effectively answered the bullshit assertion that minority groups cannot be racist. Perhaps Okie read it, but it certainly appears that he did not understand it.

What they are saying is a load of crap. The reality is certain of the minority groups are far more racist than white's. Of course they are excused, in their minds, by their past treatment by white people. If we are ever to have the elusive color blind society that must change. Racism by any group is unacceptable.

<<sigh>>

I believe all cultures and races have racists amongst them.

What matters is what actions racists take to harm others - to deny equal treatment by laws or fiat.

Let's make this real clear for the slower members...

1) Minority groups can be racist (and no one said otherwise). Examples include Louis Farrakhans little group.

2) Offering a scholarship targeted for Greek-Americans does not make the American Foundation for Greek Language and Culture a racist organization.

3) Racist groups like the KKK promote hatred toward other ethnic groups based on race or culture. They use tactics including defamation, intimidation with veiled threats of physical violence, and fear-mongering.

4) Civil rights groups like La Raza and NAACP don't promote hatred toward other ethnic groups. They don't use tactics like defamation, threats of physical violence or fear-mongering.

This whole ridiculous line of argument is a smokescreen. The idea is that if everyone is a racist, then no one can be challenged for their own racist beliefs. It just doesn't fly with anyone with a grasp of reality.

There is racism in America. There are racist ideas which promote hatred and enforce dangerous and slanderous stereotypes. They do this by repeating lies about Jews, blacks, Latinos and illegal immigrants.

I think that the problem here is that everyone else is using the standard definition of racism instead of the ebrown_p definition.

Okay, The NAACP - fine. But you've apparently never spent any time around any actual members of La Raza.

In Texas we had to put up with them demanding the return of the land to Mexico, constantly. They aren't looking for integration. Not at all.

Cycloptichorn

Bull!

La Raza was founded, is run, and supported by American citizens. They love the United States (their country) as much as you do. La Raza is also the largest civil rights group for Latin Americans and represents millions of Americans.

To suggest that Hispanic citizens want tear apart the US is slander and defamation. Ironically they make the same claim about the Jewish Americans, and they made the same claims about the Japanese Americans and German Americans before this.

This is exactly what I am talking about as the thesis of this thread.

I dare you! Give me one credible source-- that is not from a anti-immigrant group-- that would back up this ridiculous slander about La Raza, or about any real part of the Hispanic American community it represents..

This is pathetic.

[ and yes, I spend quite a bit of time with La Raza members...]

ebrown wrote: "I dare you! Give me one credible source-- "

Yeah, I'd like to see that too!

Tell me- are you personally a member of La Raza? Have you spent time around the members of the organization?

I can only speak from my personal experience. I understand that anecdotal evidence doesn't impugn the entire group. But my experiences with La Raza have been decidedly different than what you talk about.

I never suggested that 'Hispanic citizens want tear apart the US.' Ever. I merely commented that the representatives of La Raza who are active in Texas are far, far more extreme than you represent them as.

What's pathetic, Ebrown, is the fact that you are so hard-line on the immigration issue, that you feel it is necessary to lump anyone who doesn't agree with you into the same 'racist' mold. I don't have anything against Hispanics at all; I do have a problem with illegal immigrants and those who can't intergrate with the US.

For example, at the University of Texas, we weren't allowed to have a school celebration of Texas Independence day, because it was deemed offensive to Hispanics and Mexicans. Groups such as MeCHA and La Raza are the ones who sponsored the fight to get it blocked. Bullsh*t like this is what turns people against the cause of Hispanics and the Illegal Immigrant.

Cycloptichorn

I am not a member of La Raza. I am very involved in the immigrant rights movement. I spend quite a bit of time with members of La Raza (who help organize and advocate).

I have from the beginning of this thread distinguished between people who are against illegal immigration because it breaks the law-- and people who express or spread racist ideas.

I will repeat the title of this thread "Being against illegal immigration does not make you a racist".

Stereotypes that question the loyalty of American citizens based on their ethnicity is an example of racism.

There are Latinos (particularly students) who express extreme ideas-- especially those who are angry about what is happening. Those that are US citizens have every right to do this, and there are extremists of every ethnic group.

The group MeCha is a student group, and an example of people who often go over the line to extremism. La Raza has publically disavowed this type of extremism.

La Raza is a very active civil rights organization that has a very long record. This record includes prominant American thinkers, and testimony in front of Congress.

If you want to slander the Hispanic community, slandering La Raza is a good place to start. But these are just lies.

I repeat my challenge (since truth is a defense against a charge of slander)... There is a very big record. Give me one instance, in all of the Record of La Raza where they support the extremism you are accusing them of.

Cyclo, Isn't it true that no matter what organization one belongs to, there will always be somebody that reflects the worst of all societies?

Generalizing the whole from one isn't even considered relevant in most cases; look at the catholic church for one. Doesn't mean catholics will stop going to church or believing in their faith because of the number of other churches charged with a crime.