ADVICE NEEDED-I'm about to lose my wife

I am 30, and i was def. NOT her first love. She has had plenty of experiences with men in her life. We met when she was 19. She dated many peopole before me.

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Butrflynet wrote:

Exactly what is it you want her to do? Sounds to me like you won't be happy until she quits that nice ego-boosting job and is back to being dependent upon you so you can control her.

I had similar thoughts, but I didn't want to be quite so agressive about it, since vStrong seemed to be hurting so badly. What we are talking about (which I had mentioned before) is that there is a change in the balance, and the dynamics of the relationship.

Whenever there is a change, both parties to the change need to "renegotiate" their relationship. I don't mean a formal negotiation, but an ongoing dialogue between the two people.

If there is no dialogue, and if one of the persons assumes that the relationship will be as before, there will be problems in the marriage, and it may not succeed. One must be willing to understand the changes that are happening, and allow for these changes.

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Butrflynet wrote:

Quote:
She has hugged me and told me she loved me every morning this week, but it is probably more out of sympathy and an act than anything else. Its just too odd that 2 weeks ago we were cutting down our xmas tree together, 4 weeks ago talking about having a kid and 8 weeks ago she was throwing me a surprise 30th b-day party....that took a TON of work to setup and hide from me (no one has ever surprised me before).

Get over yourself, dude. She's hugging you and telling you she loves you every morning but that isn't enough for you? You're mad because she didn't try to hide it when you asked what she was doing while she was IMing with a man from the office. You're mad because you kept ragging on her with accusations and questions until she said what you wanted to believe rather than accepting what she actually said. By that time, I'd be having doubts about you too.

You had broken ribs, dude. Of course the demonstration of physical affection is going to be different. You're better now and she's hugging you again. Yet you're pushing her away and toward this other person with your need for control.

Guess what? Eight weeks ago, she was probably IMing with a lot of people you didn't know about. That's what you do when you plan surprise parties, you act stealthily and try to keep a lot of conversations secret. That was probably why you were noticing she was acting differently.

Exactly what is it you want her to do? Sounds to me like you won't be happy until she quits that nice ego-boosting job and is back to being dependent upon you so you can control her.

hey dude, read the entire thread next time you feel like making a response. She said she is not "in" love with me and may have feelings for another guy, who happens to be who she was IM'ing.

I'm not looking for the world. Just my wife. I'm not asking for her to quit her job or anything like that. I'm so proud of her and have told her that a 100 times, including today. She has finally found a job that makes her feel important, i have told her how proud i am of her.

I am not controlling, I tell her to go out ALL the time. She goes out with her friends, stays out til 2am, and I have no problem with it, i don't even ask what she did the night before, only if she had fun.

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Whoa! That was strong, Butterfly.

What you have here are two people with hair triggers on their emotions. They are skittering around like two water drops on a hot skittle.

Her mother says (how'd she get involved anyway?) the wife had low self esteem. She says she can't control her feelings, (right. Teenagers have trouble controlling their feelings, not adults.)

He, meanwhile, is swinging from one edge to the other so how would she know where he's going to be next?
(Not much control there either.)

So my advice to him is shut up. Listen. Oh, and calm down, he didn't screw up that much and neither did she, so hush up and see what she has to say. In the sessions, be truthful and open and direct. It is not necessary to respond to every little word out of her mouth, ( men think like that and we talk to each other like that but, here's a clue, she's not a man.)

Imagine how you would like things to be and work towards that.
Work hard at doing your part without breaking out into a sweat, this is life. The end of love is not death, it is change.

Be patient, but don't be an idiot. If at the end of a number of sessions your relationship appears not to be improving quietly start looking for a good divorce lawyer.

Joe(Panic is seldom found to be a solid strategy)Nation

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I wont be happy until my wife falls back in love with me. She can have the job and all that comes with it.

The hugging and kissing in the morning is more of an act, i think, on her part, because she feels so guilty for what she is putting me through.

If she had no feeling for another man, i wouldn't be coming off as so desperate.

This has nothing to do with her "ego boosting job" and everything to do with the fact that she has "fallen out of love with me". When she tells me "she loves me" its more of a brotherly thing and she has told me so.

"I love you, but I do not think I am in love with you anymore."

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Hi vstrong,

First, I want to commend you again for making things happen with counseling. By Saturday do you mean tomorrow? That's impressively quick if so (and still is if you mean next Saturday, actually).

Like Phoenix, I do think that your wife finding a great job and making that transition is a major part of what's going on. I don't think it's necessarily about men noticing her and telling her she looks good -- I think it's more likely to just be about the shift in her own identity, and the turmoil that comes with that. Her identity is less in terms of you, more in terms of her workplace accomplishments, her newfound abilities.

I used to run an employment training and placement program for young adults and I saw this ALL the time. Women who were used to not accomplishing anything in particular suddenly had the skills and the resources to accomplish quite a lot, and it was heady stuff. A lot of relationships did break up, a lot of them became stronger. But that one aspect -- a woman getting a really good job for the first time in her life -- was itself almost universally the cause for a shake-up if she was in a relationship.

Again, that universality had pretty much nothing to do with what sexual attention she was getting from men, or any attractions she may or may not have had. Just plain success and accomplishments and the effect that had on a woman not used to those things.

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Joe Nation wrote:

Whoa! That was strong, Butterfly.

What you have here are two people with hair triggers on their emotions. They are skittering around like two water drops on a hot skittle.

Her mother says (how'd she get involved anyway?) the wife had low self esteem. She says she can't control her feelings, (right. Teenagers have trouble controlling their feelings, not adults.)

He, meanwhile, is swinging from one edge to the other so how would she know where he's going to be next?
(Not much control there either.)

So my advice to him is shut up. Listen. Oh, and calm down, he didn't screw up that much and neither did she, so hush up and see what she has to say. In the sessions, be truthful and open and direct. It is not necessary to respond to every little word out of her mouth, ( men think like that and we talk to each other like that but, here's a clue, she's not a man.)

Imagine how you would like things to be and work towards that.
Work hard at doing your part without breaking out into a sweat, this is life. The end of love is not death, it is change.

Be patient, but don't be an idiot. If at the end of a number of sessions your relationship appears not to be improving quietly start looking for a good divorce lawyer.

Joe(Panic is seldom found to be a solid strategy)Nation

Thanks for the advice. I am trying to back off and give her space tot hink..i am. She is going out tonight withher friends.....I said have fun.

But how am I supposed to just sit back and not be loving and proactively trying to show her that I lover so damn much, when I am trying to get her back?

I hope couseling works, as this particular one is "pro-marriage", whatever that means.

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I was writing my response before I saw your last one, vstrong. Don't be so sure about cause and effect. The pertinent part of "I'm not sure if I love you" could be "I am not sure if I am the same person who fell in love with you, and I'm not sure yet if the new person I am is in love with you." Be someone that the new person she is can love. Don't tie it all to the past.

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vstrong wrote:

But how am I supposed to just sit back and not be loving and proactively trying to show her that I lover so damn much, when I am trying to get her back?

Sitting back can be both loving and proactive. Sometimes it's the most loving and proactive thing you can do.

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The counseling is tomorrow...do you think that is too quick? She stated that she needs time to think, but i believe that the counselor will give her some things to think about.

I obviously want this to work,but if its not, i need to know, because this is f'ing gut wrenching. The pain I'm going through is indescribable.

With xmas being this weekend, she is coming to my family party(xmas eve) as well as my to my mothers xmas morning (tradition)

Also, more background. Our families (both parents, bros, sis) are very involved in our lives. She has not called her mom since everything went down on Monday and it is killing her mom. She refuses to call her back cause she doesn't want to hear "you need to stay with you're husband, do the right thing...blah, blah" They usually talk everyday. Family is a very big part of our lives. She is very close toher mother and she knows what she is doing is wrong.

Positive advice on next steps is always welcome and encouraged Smile

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vstrong, I wish you the best, but really, you need to chill. I know that's easier said than done.

Tomorrow isn't too quick if she's OK with it. If you're pressuring her into it and she doesn't want to go tomorrow, it's too quick.

The family thing fits with everything else I have been saying. That's another thing I've seen before too, especially if the young woman has felt overprotected. It's all part of being more succcessful and independent. "Stop coddling me, I don't need it. Give me some space."

Note, I'm not saying this is definitely what's going on -- what I've said to others about not having enough info goes for me too. Just something that would fit, from what you have said so far.

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vstrong wrote:

Positive advice on next steps is always welcome and encouraged

Patience ... open mind ... will to change yourself ... loving attitude ... patience.

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Wait a minute.

A 26 year old married woman who talks to her mother EVERY day and goes out with her girlfriends until two in the morning? What's wrong with this picture?

Joe(by the way, the counselor isn't going to tell her anything. they listen)Nation

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Fits my clients to a T.

vstrong, what culture do you and your wife belong to? I assume you live in America (correct me if I'm wrong), are either of you Latino, for example?

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vstrong wrote:

..I told her she needs to figure things out and that I am willing to give her as much space as she needs, but I told her I felt what she was doing (being emotionally involved with someone else) is cheating. Needless to say, she didn't take that well. But i emphasized to her, thats just how I feel, I'm not trying to make you feel bad or anything else, its just how I feel.

You feel how you feel, you can't control your feelings. Isn't that the same thing your wife is trying to tell you? I agree with you that being emotionally involved with someone else can be cheating. But it can also be totally innocent. "Emotionally involved" is a relative term. Is it possible that she's saying one thing and you're hearing another? I'm emotionally involved with a number of people, including some men, but I'm not 'cheating' with any of them.

Quote:

A little more background: She has grown up with very low self esteem, according to her mom. I probably have not helped that the last 6 months. Or maybe longer, who knows. Whatever the case, no matter how long this has been happening, she has fallen out of love with me. She is 26 and young and now has a job to where she can be independent, so i think she is thinking "I don't need him anymore, I don't need this crap anymore. I have guys all around me, showing me attention..etc, etc.". I guess this someone at her work is showing her the attention she is craving and been missing at home. There is no excuse for this, but it happened. I'm willing to forgive, because I know who she is and how perfect we are when things are right. I mean, this whole new job, feeling important thing has just thrown her into a whirlwind of emotions. It has to be a freeing, exciting, independent feeling to finally be feel important and bring home a solid paycheck.

This is where you keep losing me. There is no excuse for what? For thinking the grass might be greener? Just what is it that you are willing to forgive? What exactly has she done?

Is your "pro-marriage" counselor affiliated with a religious group? Sometimes "pro-marriage" means that the focus will be on keeping the marriage together (the marriage is the client) rather than looking at the needs of the individuals.

Good luck tomorrow, I hope things work out for you.

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I believe that there is no excuse for her to allow herself to have feeelings for another man while in a committed marriage that was taken with vows under God in the Christian church.

The pro-marriage counsler is not affliated with anything. She is just for keeping the marriage together, but is also for working on the individual needs of each person.

She has agreed to couseling sat., so I dont think I am pressuring her. But, this all happened Monday, and Sat. we are in counseling? I mean, her feelings for this other man didnt magically go away, are not going to go away becasue of a counsler.

I'm so lost now on how to handle myself. I'm in the f'ing very angry stage right now. Im so mad at her. i dont want to follow her around and poiut around saying "I love you" anymore. I think I need to show her that I can handle this and almost scare her a little into thinking "I could possibly lose him?". Cause right now, she knows she has me by the balls.

We are white, normal(haha), educated people living in Chicago, IL.

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Don't take this **** lying down, vstrong. Go to the nearest possible strip joint as soon as possible. When a nice friendly young lady happens by your table, give her a twenty dollar bill and tell her where it hurts.

All the answers to life's most difficult questions can be found at the nudie bar.

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Ticomaya wrote:

vstrong wrote:
Positive advice on next steps is always welcome and encouraged

Patience ... open mind ... will to change yourself ... loving attitude ... patience.

I forgot ... ignore kickycan.

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vstrong wrote:

I believe that there is no excuse for her to allow herself to have feeelings for another man while in a committed marriage that was taken with vows under God in the Christian church.

"No excuse"?

You've detailed (somewhat) the excuse, the reasons for her questioning her feelings. She may not be lily-white in this, but the last thing you ought to be doing now is telling her her feelings aren't justified. They are what they are. If you are not willing to forgive her for possibly having those feelings, discover the reason she had those feelings, and make the changes needed, you aren't ready to continue in this relationship.

My guess: The other guy was listening to her ... he was satisfying that part of her that needed that ... and you weren't meeting that emotional need of hers.

Quote:

I'm so lost now on how to handle myself. I'm in the f'ing very angry stage right now. Im so mad at her. i dont want to follow her around and poiut around saying "I love you" anymore. I think I need to show her that I can handle this and almost scare her a little into thinking "I could possibly lose him?". Cause right now, she knows she has me by the balls.

By all means, adopt that attitude and watch how quickly your marriage dissolves.

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vstrong, have you made note of the point JPB's been making? I very much agree with her. Attractions happen. That isn't something that, in and of itself, needs to be forgiven or is so wrong. Acting on it, yes. Merely thinking it, no. Actions can be controlled to an extent that thoughts can't.

Now, I think she probably handled the whole thing poorly -- telling you that she had these feelings might have opened a can of worms to an extent that she didn't really expect. She may not have thought things through all the way, just kind of blurted what was on her mind.

But if you make it a sin to merely think about another person while married, you're not only going to be alienating her now (since it's something she's already done) but setting an impossibly high bar for the future.

I think you need to start separating out your own inchoate jealousy, which you're entitled to but which is dangerous, from what she actually has (or hasn't) done.

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ADVICE NEEDED-I'm about to lose my wife

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