Will Bush ever be punished?

Violet Lake





Perhaps you did not mean to but you did not criticize the nation of Israel which is quite acceptable you denigrated the character of the people of Israel.

Really? I was just stating a fact. I guess for some reason, people don't use those words together too often.

Violet Lake


Obviously my first impression was correct.

au, please explain to me why that makes me prejudiced, or anti-semitic. I'm ready to dig this one wide open if you're up for it.

BTW, I mean that as a challenge to explore this subject honestly.

Violet, there are lots of "facts" that carry implications. Are you saying you weren't implying that Israelis, as a whole, are inhospitable?

Sure, but why would that make me prejudiced or anti semitic? If I said the same thing about South Africa 15 years ago, would it have raised the same objections?

Well, I'll say that I've met lots of very hospitable Israelis. So there it is in a sentence (and a very sincere one.)

I would have objected to that too, yeah. There are a lot of people in South Africa, and there are a lot of people in Israel.

(Spoken as someone who wore a Palestinian liberation scarf, or whatever they were called, to the Jewish Community Center as a teenager...)

violet

You are on dangerous ground with that one. The implication is as sozobe reads it. You've made a generalization which clearly won't be true in all, or even in most, instances.

You are talking about Israelis, which isn't the same thing as making a statement about jewish people, but because you aren't talking about localized policy (eg , some Likkud policy regarding settlements, which would be totally fine to criticize), you do leave yourself open to the charge.

Apparently there aren't enough hospitable Israelis to make it a world famous thing.

I doubt hospitality is what most people think about when they think about Israel. Is it their fault for not thinking about the very hospitable Israelis instead? Israel has a bad PR problem, and it's something I have no control over.

violet

I've never heard the expression 'hospitable Botswanese' either, but just because I've not seen those two terms together doesn't tell me as much as you argue it should.

Israel does have a bad PR problem, but I have no experience to suggest the PR problem relates to hospitality. A close lady friend of mine was married to a jewish fellow and they spent a couple of years together living and working on a kibbutz. Her experience was really quite the opposite of what you suggest. Though she was Canadian and gentile, she was never excluded nor treated inhospitably, even where her cultural heritage wasn't known.

tartarin mentioned Israeli hospitality in his post. I commented that I never heard those words used together before. I was telling the truth. I believe that by making the comment, I was implying that Israel has a PR problem - of their own making. Israel has the ability to change the way the world thinks about it.

I'm only arguing that my statement wasn't prejudiced or anti semitic. I'm not the one reading too much into it

Ask the Palestinians if Israel's PR problem is related to hospitality.

The comment started as rude. After clarification to other members, your remarks were racist, and anti-semitic.

Of course, you're free to make such statements. Being referred to as inhospitable certainly isn't the worst insult to befall Jews and/or Israelis. But, lumping a group of people, based on their ethnicity or religion is dangerous and wrong. It pushes open a door to the worst atrocities known to man. Israelis are individuals. They don't dress alike, think alike or behave alike.

Sofia, I must agree with you; it's wrong to paint any culture or religion with one brush. All cultures and religions have the good and the bad. It's just being human. We can't control what others in our culture or relgious belief does, did, or will do in the future. It's similar to saying all Americans have a PR problem because of what this administration have done, but most fair-minded peoples know the difference between the American people and the president and his administration. c.i.

violet

No, your comments weren't anti-semitic, regardless of opinions above. But prejudiced they were. You pre judge....if the person is from Israel (might be jewish, might be christian, might be Buddhist) they aren't going to be hospitable (clear implication).

You've now brought in the Palestinian question. It's likely you and I share some notions regarding Israel's complicity in bringing about the present situation, but this only allows you to make some other more specific claim, such as 'the present Israeli government is guilty of causing much of its own troubles' or some such.

I think you ought to back down on this one.

I'm with Sofia on this one. And I would also like to know on what you base your statement. You have been to Israel and found the Israelis inhospitable? You have first-hand knowledge of this? If this is your opinion, it would be helpful to say so. But to make a flat-out blanket statement like that as fact does connote racist and antisemitic feelings on your part. Which, as Sofia said, you're free to make. But it opens a whole new way of looking at this thread.

Violet Lake:

Sieg Heil

Sofia, I didn't lump anyone based on their race or ethnicity.

Am I not allowed to criticize Israel, or show my anger towards it, because it's a Jewish nation?

Why is it that any criticism directed at Israel is immediately judged to be anti-semitic or prejudiced? Perhaps that's part of Israel's problem. It enjoys a special status among nations that I believe isn't warranted, fair, or good for the Israeli people.

Israel is supposedly a democratic nation, so the people of Israel (at least a majority) are as responsible for what's happening as the Likud Party.

If someone from Europe said they never saw or heard the words "American sophistication" used together (except maybe in a joke), I'm sure most people would know what they meant, and most people wouldn't take it personally. Lighten up for chrissake.

mama, are you implying that since I've never been to Israel I'm not allowed to say that I've never seen the words "Israeli hospitality" used together? That's a pretty tough standard to hold a person to.

Folks, if I'm a bigot, I'm an equal opportunity bigot. You all suck

Violet Lake

Ok Let's review
violet said


AU responded




Violet responded


Note question was not answered. I assume from that you have never visited israel and it was your prejudice speaking

AU response



I gave you the benefit of the doubt.

Violtet's response


AU response


Violet asked




I think I have.
THE END