Hmm....all interesting posts. Kerver's too, about launching into 'couch potato' mode....I dunno. Mrs. cav and I have been through a lot of crap, but the work brings us closer with each passing year. To me, the bottom line is that marriage is work, and if you don't like work, don't get married. It's a different kind of work than doing your job, obviously. Just my
I could just see that happening in todays world Vivien, I mean having the bolster between them ........ not in your wildest dreams:)
Hmmm - I have always been viscerally and strongly allergic to marriage. Apparently, I lisped the words "I will never get married" as soon as my infant lips were capable of getting so many syllables out - or so one of my cousins recently informed me - which was waaaaay unusual in suburban Oz at the time.
Why? Well, my parent's marriage was truly horrid - but that doesn't usually affect people so much. I think that the marriages I observed around me were repellent to me. There was such a clear gender/power thing, for instance - I mean, the women were the centre of the place, right? But - when the dads came home, they sort of diminished - the dads were like rather distant, grumpy, (poor fellas - at work all day!) dampening forces. (Australian men of the generation I speak of were notoriously distant and sort of emotionally tongue-tied with their families). Everything changed, and became uncomfortable when the dads were there - which was something I observed not just at my home. It was as though the real life of the home sort of deferred itself to these unpredictable forces - and I hated the way the women were subtly, or not so subtly, dis-respected.
I think the dads were also sort of dis-respected too, in an odd way - the roles seemed to imprison them equally - and they must have realized that everything sort of stopped when they were there. A brilliant portrait of the sort of thing I mean - writ very large and very toxic - is given in "Sons and Lovers" - which makes achingly clear the alienation of the father - which was, I think, at the time, mirrored in a smaller but significant way in Ozzian homes. I do not know if this was so in American ones? I think American marriages may have been different.
I see the same sort of thing even today in many families I see - but not in my friends' relationships- so I assume it is changing.
Another thing that turned me against marriage, I think, was how much more FUN unmarried people seemed to be! Again, I think this was partly a time/culture thing - but married adults seemed so solemn and lifeless, in the main.
Waitressing sure didn't help - you could tell the married people because they often did not seem to talk to each other, or like each other very much!!
I developed a political analysis that was anti-marriage, too - but I won't bother with that here. Certainly, I have always run like an...er.... rabbit when someone begins to mention the 'M" word - lol.
I know there are lots of great marriages, by the way - but the thing is still high on my not-to-do list.
Watching hamburger and mrs. hamburger over most of the nearly 48 years of their marriage suggests to me that hard work makes all the difference. They both worked at the marriage, and it surely looks like they are more in love than ever now. Amazing to see. (the few posts I've seen here by hamburger on this subject give the credit to mrs. hamburger - i think they both deserve credit)
Q. What will it take to get me married ?
A. An act of parliament.
Women, I think do grow tired of marriage and often after 20 or more years as the men grow older and slow down just about the same time the women start feeling free of the ties that have bound them forever and ever.
The choices women make in a husband, one made 20 or 30 years ago, well they were made by young women and were not necessarily bad ones just choices based on information of a less experienced woman. The knowledge gained during the passage of time and the knowledge gained from living is especially important for women I think.
Just the weekend in Oklahoma City, OK, I ran into three of my fellow Read Hat Society members. We laughed and shook hands with the knowledge that we are having the times of our lives and that new found freedom began at the big 50.
And if true love should enter my life I would really hang on tight since real love is such a wonder.
Although I cannot speak for everyone woman and certainly not for men my opinion and experience with men, husbands in particular, has caused me to believe men are less likely to change over the course of many years.
Oh ya, and I am not marriageable or probably even partnerable. By that I mean I am not controlable and controlling men is what I seem to attract.
As I have aged I have learned to avoid the controllers like the plague, finally. However, if I should meet a kind and gentle man I might consider a relationship. But not marriage not ever again will I even entertain the thought.
JoanneDorel wrote:The choices women make in a husband, one made 20 or 30 years ago, well they were made by young women and were not necessarily bad ones just choices based on information of a less experienced woman.
Could this have something to do with eras, not just the passage of time per se? I think women currently feel much less pressure to be married, and are more likely to be single or just be very, very careful about who they do marry. It's not a given, it's more of an extraordinary circumstances thing.
And especially, I think people (both men and women) are more likely to have
lived and have their own experiences before they get married these days.
absolutely, Soz, at the time I first married in 1965 I was definitely still in 50s mode. Not a good mode in which to choose a mate.
In fact I believe deep in my heart that many women my age look to younger men not for their virility but because they were not alive in the 50s or 60s to have the 50s male attitude. Often I find men my age or older stuck in time. And I just cannot do that anymore.
There are exceptions of course, men my age and older can be OK with real women. But it is an exception that is for sure.
sozobe - you could be on to something there. mrs. hamburger had a good job when she met hamburger. her career was better established than his at the time. she did not have any particular need to marry. she was, and is, a very strong individual. she made a choice when she married. it was not something she felt had to be done (other than having to be married to share a cabin on the freighter in 1956 :wink: ). she was probably somewhat atypical for women of the time.
I definitely think that having a strong sense of self before you enter into a marriage is key. (Mrs. Hamburger sounds like quite a dame.)
I almost got married twice and am very glad I didn't! Not because the guys in question were anything less than terrific, but because some of us are better at marriage than others and I'm among the others. It surprises me looking back that I understood that -- or that I didn't understand it but had good instincts -- or that I was just damn lucky (and so were the people who escaped)!! Though it hasn't always been easy, it's been exhilirating to be independent.
(P.S. No one ever knows as much as they'll know ten years from now -- so mistakes happen, not-so-great decisions are made. Even the imperfect decisions make wonderful, colorful additions to life. We're living longer and longer. Maybe we should expect to have several different careers, several different marriages -- or near-marriages!)
I've known for a very long time that marriage is not for me. I sometimes feel like I must be lacking but I just cannot do it because it is not right for me. I have lost some wonderful people in my life because they felt I loved them less when I said "no" to marriage.
Heeven I passed an Emu farm on way to Oklahoma City, OK this week end.
The did not seem interested in marriage either.
