Why marry?

Good question. Maybe

workable vows are in order?

When I get married it will be a parental union and have little to do with sexual

exclusivity.

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It is a difficult

question, too. Being secure in a relationship shouldn't be a prerequisite to marriage. I know too many couples on both

sides of the fence ~ the couples (I know) who aren't bound legally are happier.

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Then there are those

of us who've been happily married for over 10 years who blow that theory outta the water. Very Happy

Legally binding

agreements don't ensure or destroy happiness. Essentially, they're immaterial vis a vis happiness. Were we happier before

we were married? No. Are we happier after we married? Yes - but not because of marriage per se but because we've been

together longer and our love has grown.

Being married has the following advantages (at least in the US):
(1) Being

able to file taxes jointly.
(2) Being able to go on one another's work benefits with no hassles.
(3) Being able to

readily inherit one another's assets if one partner passes away and there is no will.
(4) Better protection (although

there is some protection for long-term relationships) if the relationship doesn't work out.

But that's it. There's

no illegitimacy stigma anymore, so kids aren't an issue. You can change your name (if you wish), so long as it's not with

the intent to deceive anyone. I could call myself Mrs. ___ even if we weren't married, so long as it wasn't with the intent

to deceive.

Oh, another advantage of marriage is a lovely party with gifts - but really, anyone can do that without

the marital commitment.

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Kudos to you,

jespah!

I'm not anti-marriage, I just think it's something that too many couples enter into lightly. Much as I'd

hate to see another liberty taken away, I think pre-marital counseling should be mandatory.

My ex and I would not have

been allowed to marry if we'd gone through counseling beforehand!

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Agreed. I think

there's a population out there who truly don't get that this is more than just living together or the like (not that living

together isn't importantly, but please bear with me a moment).

For one thing, it's a lot tougher to get out of, if

it doesn't work out. Saying, "Oh, I'll just get a divorce." is a lot like saying "Oh, I'll just have surgery." It's not a

simple thing. With living together and dating, you can call it quits one day. If you're sensible and still somewhat

amicable, possessions are divided, the lease is broken, and everyone goes on their merry way. With marriage, it's a legal

commitment. It involves court and testimony and papers - a far cry from just handing back the keys.

I agree with the

counseling idea. I think something akin to pre-Cana should be done for everyone. I'm not talking about the religious

component. I mean, just have couples do a little waiting and a little talking before taking the plunge. Our rabbi did about

eight sessions with us. We talked about having a kosher home and how the ceremony would go, and stuff like that, but we also

talked about what makes a marriage. I highly recommend such sessions for any couple considering marriage. If there are fewer

marriages, but the couples stay together longer and are happier, then I feel that's a far better boost to the institution

than merely more marriages for the sake of handing out licenses.

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On some level maybe

wrapping the guy up in a sheet for trial sleepovers was a good idea. BTW that was real wasn't it? It wasn't an urban legend

I hope.

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I have no idea what

you're talking about, Craven! Laughing

My sister, who is not a church-goer, was hell-bent on getting married in the

Catholic church. I chastised her relentlessly about this. Anyway...

She and her hubby went through the counseling

and I thought they were going to kill each other a few times! Six years later, they are quite happy and will bless me with

another niece/nephew in about six months!

I have to disagree though about divorce being difficult. I procured all the

paperwork for mine, dotted all the i's and crossed the t's; had the ex do the same. We were fortunate though ~ no dirty

laundry to sort through. The whole process took about three months ~ most of that time was just waiting for a court

date.

Funny.....25 years ago, when my folks divorced, the process was most definitely NOT an easy task to

accomplish.

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Well, it kinda

depends, divorce-wise. Certainly children and/or real estate or community property can make it considerably harder. And bad

feelings don't help, either. Some people have what can only be described as good divorces - they part somewhat amicably with

the least amount of damage. Others go through hell. Unfortunately, there are a lot more of the latter with children.

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You are absolutely

right, jespah.

I still think divorces are too easy to get ~ at least in Florida. (My ex and I had the child/property

issues as well, but being amicable is the only reason there were no hassles.)

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I think it's all

just up to the couple. If they are in control of the situation and there lives then it is possible to be happly married

forever. Although saying this all sounds a hell of a lot easier than it is in the real world. I have tried and failed too,

and there was no shortage of love, so it was the situation. stress and everyday presure takes it's toll on those around us

if we are not able to control the situation and our lives. there is a stigma surrounding the whole concept of marrige, and in

the old days there was a lot to be afraid of but the rules have changed and the game is different so we have to play by the

new rules. Does anyone know what they are? It would save me a lot of trouble.

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The new rules are

that femfolk get whatever they want. He he.

Rae,

The comment about sheets was about something I'm not sure

ever happened:

They'd let the fellow sleep with the woman he was courting but would sew him up in a sheet to avoid

any premarital dalliances. This way they'd get used to each other's quirks before marrying without getting

too used to each other.

But I dunno if that's all myth or not.

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The

femfolk? Excuuuuuuuuuuuse me?

Harrumph!! Rolling Eyes

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Craven - I believe

you're referring to bundling. The Puritans used to do bundling as a way to keep warm in the

winter, wink wink. :wink: They'd separate the two people with what was called a 'bundling board'. I believe some of these

boards still exist today.

Here's a link: http://www.starvingwriters.org/eThis/Think/Feb/history1.html

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Rae,

Better

femfolk than succubus right? I really have nothing against women, I even thing everyone should...

he he I better

not finish that sentence.

Jes,

THANKS! That's what I was talkin' about! It sounds so outlandish that I

wondered if it was even real.

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Yeah, well, okay

then.....as long as we got that straightened out.

Cuz I'd hate to think you were demeaning women or

something.....

Succubus.....hmmmmm..... Embarrassed

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I'd Never do such a

thing! Very Happy

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Thanks for the

information Jespah. I know that the mideastern states are rather conservative. I'd never heard of this idea before to me it

sounds ridiculous and Puritannical.

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I must bring this

topic back up to 'current' - I have been married three times. My first husband I was married to for 14 years and we had

three children. For the most part, even though the last four years were legal separation, we functioned as well if not

better than many still-married, given our family situation with one child multiply-handicapped.

My second was my "true

love" - the kind where both hearts skip a beat at the same time and then suddenly you are in sync and the reverb is too much

to ignore. You realize that there are more instances than not where you never have to say more than a few words of a

sentence and the partner knows where you are going. But, true love, alas, does not mean that it is something that can

conquer unalterable forces against a union. I'd say that a partner having a complete mental breakdown and being

institutionalized qualifies as a rather extreme happenstance. Sigh. It did happen, a year after we married. We stayed

married for only 8 mths after he was able to live the institution, and separated, not by my choice.

Even though I knew

the person would never recover and be that person I had married, I stayed on for another two years.

So, along comes

#3, and you'd think that 11 years later, this person would be 'safe' and really have a good handle on a decision to marry.

Wrong! Let's just say that it is possible for an intelligent person to get 'taken in' in some situations...

Ok,

my children are all grown and on their own and I began a new life last December, still continuing to develop clarity and

stuck in a hazy transitional phase. Do I have a partner? Oddly enough, yes! I swear, this was a true accident OR one must

guess it was providence. So, what do I think NOW? I think he and I are better than even odds to go forward together into

"that good night" and as true friends / partners /lovers, but NOT married...

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I WISH YOU

ENOUGH
THAT IS INDEED A LONG HARD JOURNEY YOU HAVE TAKEN AND THOUGH YOU SEEM TO HAVE TAKEN IT WELL, I CANT BUT FEEL A BIT

OF SORROW FOR WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN THOUGH. iF THIS NEW MAN IN YOUR LIFE SEEMS TO BE THE ONE THEN ALL I CAN SAY IS THAT I WISH

YOU ENOUGH.

THIS WAS SENT TO ME BY A CLOSE FRIEND AND I THINK THAT IT IS APPROPRIATE HERE.

WELL HERE

GOES:

Quote:

At an airport I overheard a father and daughter in their last moments together.

They

had announced her plane's departure and standing near the door She said, "Daddy, our life together has been more than

enough. Your love is All I ever needed. I wish you enough, too, Daddy."

They kissed good-bye and she left. He walked

over toward the window where was seated. Standing there I could see he wanted and needed to cry.
I tried not to intrude on

his privacy, but he welcomed me in by asking, "Did you ever say good-bye to someone knowing it would be forever?" "Yes, I

have," I replied. Saying that brought back memories I had of expressing my love and appreciation for all my Dad had done for

me. Recognizing that his days were limited, I took the time to tell him face to face how much he meant to me. So I knew what

this man was experiencing.

"Forgive me for asking, but why is this a forever good-bye?" I asked. "I am old and she

lives much too far away. I have challenges ahead and the reality is, her next trip back will be for my funeral,” he

said. When you were saying good-bye I heard you say, 'I wish you enough’. May I ask what that means?" He began to

smile. "That's a wish that has been handed down from other generations. My parents used to say it to everyone.” He

paused a moment and looking up as if trying to remember it in detail, he smiled even more. "When we said 'I wish you

enough', we were wanting the other person to have a life filled with enough good things to sustain them". He continued and

then, turning toward me, he shared the following as if he were reciting it from memory:

I wish you enough sun to keep

your attitude bright.
I wish you enough rain to appreciate the sun more.
I wish you enough happiness to keep your

spirit alive. I wish you enough pain so that the smallest joys in life appear much bigger.
I wish you enough gain to

satisfy your wanting.
I wish you enough loss to appreciate all that you possess.
I wish enough 'Hellos' to get you

through the final 'Good-bye'. He then began to sob and walked away.
My friends and loved ones, I wish you ENOUGH

!!!
They say, "It takes a minute to find a special person, an hour to appreciate them, a day to love them, but then an

entire lifetime to forget them."

I CAN ADD NO MORE TO THIS

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Why marry?

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