What's an honest man to do, really?

Well CB, you got me thinking. Can't even get through a movie. Posted a different thought abour relationships. If there was a script there would be no sandwich!

BTW, my relationship with A2K is becoming taxed. "Watch this topic" keeps getting unchecked and updates stop.

Well CB, you got me thinking. Can't even get through a movie. Posted a different thought abour relationships. If there was a script there would be no sandwich!

BTW, my relationship with A2K is becoming taxed. "Watch this topic" keeps getting unchecked and updates stop.

Osso, as usual, a great post, and I especially agree with this quote. People are put off by too much intensity or neediness, they sense it and pull back reflexively. Some of the best times I've had with [people were while doing things like playing music, sharing the care of our kids, working on a project. I had plenty of those intoxicated soul-talks, but they didn't lead anywhere more intimate than the enjoyment of everyday things.

Uh oh gotta go but will be back with a comment for cav.

Cav, the ick factor might Code's cover, what he's using to provoke. I still can't believe Codeborg called 85 people in one day or didn't speak to anyone for a year. They don't sound like the same person.

True. I consider the shared enjoyment of everyday things extremely important, though. The gf and I both love food -- pretty much every type, and have concocted elaborate and unaffordable plans for travelling the globe with the sole purpose of sampling wonderful cuisines in their native environments. (Okay, so more realistically we'll probably end up going to New Orleans and Santa Fe, but, you know, more than most can manage...) I couldn't imagine spending a lifetime with somebody I wouldn't dig breaking bread with, or whose musical taste I found abhorrent (or vice versa), or who didn't, y'know, laugh at the same sorts of things -- particularly those dark things that are hard to laugh at with strangers.

Most of life is small moments; I'd rather have my disharmony in the big moments than the small ones.

Agree with cav on the small day to day moments.

Morganwood, do you know that when you post you have to recheck Watch this Topic?

Oops, I guess Codeborg's lost interest in his threrad

I didn't reread everything here, but I recall forming an opinion regarding the posts here as they came up....it seemed to me that the women were in general more distrustful of CodeBorg's story and intent than the men. Am I wrong? I just thought it was interesting...

Heh, didn't mean to abandon the thread ... got distracted with so many other nice threads! And mulling things over too.

I've heard this a few times, that when people are looking for a relationship, they won't find it. So I give up and don't look anymore. Then I look a little. Then I look a lot. Then I look hardly at all. Every few months it's different.

Then it occurs to me that it's usually a woman who gave me that advice, following a romantic idea of random, spontaneous, magical relationships. Beautiful women can afford to sit and wait for romance to sweep them away. It does work for them.

Then I see that so much of men's role is built around looking, initiating, creating, and taking responsibility for how things go. Much of our society is geared towards men competing for the approval of a woman. So I look for relationships again!

Afterall, mature, responsible people take charge of what they want in life and it's quite okay for two people to consciously create what they desire. Even if sometimes it sounds artificial on the outside, perhaps that's why personal ads sound so contrived, but often do work well.

So I don't know! :-)

But you do remind me that I'm a somewhat intellectual person, and often our brain gets in the way of serendipity. Being intensely aware can make everything less spontaneous.

That sounds right, cav, but that's wouldn't be the reason Code is missing here. He was still around until we talked about being icky. (sorry if that was offensive, CB)

As far as the story about the visit to the sex place with 2 women, I believed it, but think it was more complicated than Code accomodating his dates. It was an adventure, and as Code is curious an lively, it would be fun. Plus, watching sex can be as much fun as doing it , even more fun in some situations, I would imagine. The untold part is the part I find interesting.

Morganwood -- I love your stories!

I too have been at the end of my rope, and beyond. I did everything
humanly possible to ask for help and found it wasn't there. There are
no gaurentees. I had all these fantasies about people being available
if I needed them, but that's usually more of a hope than a reality.
After many years of reaching out I had to learn to build a good
life on my own, regardless of who might be around.

It sounds sad. I'm there for people through thick and thin, and
easily face some really intense situations that scare the bejeezus
out of most people. I've seen so much that it's easy for me to be
strong for others. But folks who live on the edge often don't have
so much attention to give, so I stay open to all people, all relationships,
whatever they happen to be. Every person is so different.


Sozobe -- I still love your story about being a child at the beach. :-)
It keeps bouncing into my head and making lots of sense.
I'm just looking for nice stories, of how good relationships
occur to people.
My life is so different that no direct advice or rules can be applied,
but nice stories inspire and give ideas!


Cav -- If I'm in a really intense mood, you and Mrs. Cav may have
to slap me upside the head and buy me a beer. Anything is possible! :-)
But I still encourage everyone(!) to play music with a small group
of people, anywhere, anyhow. There are some really cool symbols
that come from each person having a voice, and being part of something
so tight, together, soulfull, and beautiful. Teamwork! Community!



The ick factor -- Is the original post on this thread icky?
Please tell! What are people's reactions?

I honestly don't know unless people say. I've met so many different
kinds of people, that I can understand most any perspective on it.
There's a hundred ways of looking and reacting to it!

I went to the sex clubs out of curiosity, just to know my dates better
and to know what the clubs are like! Most people are eager to judge them
without actually seeing what there is (or why!!). If my buddies at work
weren't available for a wild time, why not go with a couple women?
Society allows women to do so much more than men (in manner, dress,
lifestyle, behavior, encouragement, and social support) that their
presence actually opened quite a few doors.

There is a whole sub-culture that really gets into these shows, but
to me it was like watching a commercial on TV -- how shallow
and contrived, neither icky nor provocative, just silly and plastic.
My dates seemed to love it though, giggling and "omigosh" all night!

Cav is so direct and frank -- How do others react to the story?

Don't remember how I did react to it -- and it's so far back in the thread and I find what has followed more interesting, quite honestly. I do wonder about the tone of it, (I wonder how much time went into composing it?) -- but it's far, far from the most salacious thing I've ever heard of, and I've dated at least one woman who probably would have gone in for the same thing, so I don't feel the need to question either its veracity or how it might reflect on your character, CB. And the whole taboo against prostitution in its many forms is damn silly in my mind, and creates a lot of unnecessary danger (though I suppose that is part of the kink for many folks).

Hell, there's no way to truly suss out what's behind anything on the boards -- whether someone means what they say or not, whether they're presenting themselves as better or worse people than the actually are. So, like, whatever, y'know? I suggested slappy go find a prostitute on another thread. Not something I would do, don't know if his story is true or not, but if I don't treat it like it is, what's the point of doing this?

Is that your question?

We'll buy you a beer Code...provided you come to Toronto sometime. I don't think the original post was icky....it's just that I am a jovial natural-born cynic, so sometimes your overly-cheerful approach to life gets on my nerves, but in a good way. You remind me a bit of my brother actually in that sense. Now he is trying to pay for a wedding, and the anxious side is coming out. That and his frustration at having to live with the folks right now. Honest feelings. I like that. All of us are dual. I think what some people might be reacting to is your constant state of "love the world, love everyone", almost like you are trying to convince us. I would love to see the dark side of CodeBorg....THAT to me would be interesting, but I think, like you, I am an observer, and learn from observing. There is still something to be said for the Empirical approach to gaining knowledge. Just as a sideline, my wife is the one who taught me how to be direct and honest....best present I ever received, even if I did fight tooth and nail against it. I can also relate to not really knowing what people think unless they tell you. Being explicit builds bridges....expecting that people will understand doublespeak or metaphor just leads to further discussion, and often arguments. We are all guilty of this, but as long as we try, we are making progress.

PatioDog -- Yeah curious about reactions, that's all. And I agree completely.

Cav -- I've been through Toronto a few times, nice people.
I bet marriage would have removed many of these questions and experiences from my life. How did you meet Mrs. Cav?



(I'm off to run errands, back later...)

(strange to see myself capitalized. i usually feel as though i was christened by that cummings guy.)

CB, I met Mrs. cav at a martial arts school (we're both way out of practice now, btw)

It's true what you say about mature people being able to create what they desire. My situation was very similar to yours years ago. A long-term relationship had just ended. I wanted to meet a man who could be my "soul mate" without all the angst and painful incompatibilities that left me a wreck after 6 years of trying with the ex. Single, available, sane men are thin on the ground once you hit your mid-thirties, so I joined Classical Music Lovers Exchange. My (future) husband ordered my profile and got in touch with me, a month after I joined. I was lucky. He'd been looking for years. He was 43 when we married, I was 37.

As much as I preach serendipity, I realize it's hard to find healthy, balanced sexually satisfying, intellectually compatible partners once you're a little older. I knew I wasn't going to just bump into the perfect guy, so I went looking. I guess I was referriing mainly to non-sexual friendships. One thing holds true in both: if you come off too needy or intense, it really gets in the way.

Martial arts. Music Lovers Exchange.
Once out of college, I think most folks have to deliberately place themselves in activities where they mingle with many people.

Honest available people are out there, somewhere, but it takes so much damn work that I end up skiing, camping, travelling, playing music, and even out dinner/dancing by myself 95% of the time. It's enough to drive someone insane, if they already aren't! :-)

My own life is so broad and varied it's difficult to find a good match on more than one level. But I just can't wait around for available people anymore, no matter how much I'd love to have a family or solid friendships.

If it happens someday, that'd be nice, but I can't even find someone to actually say "How are you?". For my own survival, I have to move on and make a nice life beyond human society. Life goes on.

(I'm rambling again... nemmind.)

Hmm, woman speaking, and I don't know what I think. I heard story telling polish, sort of a conjecture set up, in the original post. Changed my mind after more posts by cyber.

I don't so much care what anybody does as I would rather be talking straightforwardly.

Complex people don't run into perfect mates every day. Every meeting with another person shouldn't be a is this/is it not situation. Really, you just need to communicate on whether it is better to get the small ripe fruit or the big not yet ripe one at the street market. You just gotta like being next to the person, never mind sex exactly. Just being there. Takes a little quiet for that.

That might be what dream and I are referring to about too much need and intensity. No one fills your order right away, even if he/she seems so...it is an actual living experience that grows, the matter of love...well, in my opinion.

Plus the topic question leads me to think that you are in search of batches of thrills, which I won't go so far as knocking, but are a bit of a tangent to long term coexistence.