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What's an honest man to do, really?

 
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2003 08:21 am
Sofia, I agree with almost all of what you said re: abstinence, but that's not how the term is commonly used, and that's not what I was objecting to in the other discussion. It was about no sex, no how, no way, under no circumstances, until you're married, whenever that may be. i.e., if you are with a guy you really really really want to have sex with, you better marry him, even if you're 19 (several people in that discussion did get married very early -- one protested "I didn't get married early -- I waited until I was 21!"), and if you are 36 and still haven't found anyone to marry, well, too bad.

Bull hooey.

(Ahem.)

(Start another topic on this subject?)
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Acquiunk
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2003 01:24 pm
This society is undergoing at the moment (the last 10 years) a very broad and deep reaction to the ideas of the 60's and early 70's. As the expansion of social space for women and the reordering of acceptable female behavior and roles was the most obvious result of those ideas it is receiving the most "flack". I am on a college campus and it is my observation (and I do not want to start a fight over this) that a lot of it is coming not only from conservatives but from a radical feminist fringe. Female sexuality is now suspect, and they are seen as both fragile and sexually vulnerable and must be protected from the impositions of over sexed males. This is very 19th century. The marble pedestal is back and the undergraduate women I teach are very different from the women I was an undergraduate with.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2003 01:26 pm
Oh, I agree with that, Acquiunk. I got in a huge fight in a Woman's Studies class because I thought the statement "All heterosexual sex is rape" was a bunch of, well, bull hooey. I really really dislike the victim mentality and think it is counterproductive.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2003 01:50 pm
Find somebody as equally "honest." c.i.
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2003 04:10 pm
sozobe quoted some young feminists, as having said--"All heterosexual sex is rape".
Shocked What the heck! The world has gotten far nuttier than I had imagined.

soz-- I don't guess we need to start another topic, as we agree on abstinence. It is a neat thing to 'make your own choice' about 'waiting for marriage', but to tell your kids you expect them to adhere to this, and they have committed a major life failure if they don't/can't is cruel. And, to deny them life-saving info on how to avoid sexually transmitted diseases, unwanted pregnancy, date rape et al is criminal, IMO. Second all your bullhooeys.

I do think teaching the option of abstinence is a good thing, as long as it's taught side-by-side with sex ed.

Would be VERY interested to hear how the young feminists backed up their claim about "All hetero sex is rape"...
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Eva
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2003 11:20 pm
How utterly ridiculous!!!
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maxsdadeo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2003 11:42 pm
codeborg: Is this how devout mormons date? But seriously, I feel your pain and angst, I too have pondered the questions you raise, and was confronted with two choices, seek out, without thought to time, distance, or expense the answers to these timeless conundrums.



Or get married.


I chose the latter, and that has made all the difference.




Of course, I still wonder, thanks for reminding me.


and SOZOBE!!!!!!!

Your level headedness exemplified in your previous post illuminates your most endearing quality.
Quote:
"All heterosexual sex is rape" was a bunch of, well, bull hooey


Your level headedness is showing again..............
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 12:52 am
Lord - I thought the "all heterosexual sex is rape" was soooooo seventies? Clearly not. Oh well.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 12:56 am
I dunno. I cop a lot of flak from a friend or two for being such a crazy feminist - yet I get dropped by many female friends for being too soft-line.

Am I doing it all wrong? Or some of it right?

Buggered if I know.

Sigh.

What's a would-be-honest woman to do?
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Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 01:00 am
Soppy, right - BEFORE or AFTER you show them the Kalishnikov??
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Mr Stillwater
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 01:03 am
"I'm a sensitive BunHun-Smoochy-Woo! Keep your freakin' hands above your motherluvin' head dirtbag!"
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 01:05 am
I presume there was a MEANING in all that yelling?
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 01:19 am
MY meaning being that we women do not have a dinky little compass with True North marked in neon and a "How To" manual either.
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the prince
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 01:58 am
I'll be back - after my training (and its such a boring training, thank god I have something to mull abt after I have read this thread)
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 03:50 am
LOL!
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 05:09 am
Mr Stillwater wrote:
Soppy, right - BEFORE or AFTER you show them the Kalishnikov??


Mr S - I have an awful confession to make to you.




In real life, I don't have a kalashnikov, or rear-mounted cannon, or small tactical nukes....but, let this be our secret, ok?
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Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 08:31 am
"What would you do if your date wanted to have sex?"
-I'm going to have to go out on a limb here, and say, I'd have sex with her.
What I'm curious about codeberg, is these women you dropped all that money on for them to have sex with that guy...were you already sleeping with them, or end up sleeping with them? Personally, I would never spend that much money on a woman who wasn't sleeping with me! That's not being a gentleman, that's being a sucker supplicating the woman for nothing.

"Do you think it's right to date two women at the same time?"
-What's wrong with it? I don't think anything is wrong with it..unless you tell them you're committed, and turn around and date other girls. I think society has it wired in our heads that we should only be with one person, which goes against our natural drives+desires. But I'm not saying there's anything wrong with wanting to be with one person, or only wanting a serious relationship. Until I find a woman I want to commit to, I'll date whoever I want.

I wouldn't have sex with a prostitute myself...but I'm not against that whole thing either. One thing that would bother me is knowing she's banged a bunch of other guys in the same day...brings new meaning to "sloppy seconds." But what do you think about this: one girl I'm dating always talks about how she's curious about having sex with another girl, which she's never done. She told me some guy told her he'd buy her an escort, but he hasn't done it...and she said she'd be up for it. Hmm...that could be a threesome opportunity right there for me, but there's that whole prostitute thing I personally don't want anything to do with. What to do? I'm pretty sure I wouldn't do it, but it's tempting.

Advice on finding a real woman? Keep chipping away, and next time you're out to dinner with two hot women who say they want to tag-team a professional...you look them straight in the eyes and tell them you're the pro, and immediately get a room.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 08:46 am
Slappy Doo Hoo always knows what to doo hoo!
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 08:57 am
CB, from your great posts on the site, you come across to me as a thinker, an observer, someone who really wants to learn, and a sensitive guy, sometimes, I think, so sensitive towards others that you are overly placating to their needs, thinking more about what they want to do or hear than about what you want. I caught this in your statement about wanting to meet a "real woman". Given your posts, I would expect that you would recognize that all women are "real" in their own unique way. Obviously, you do take on dating projects that do not fit your real needs, to be polite. We all do, but sometimes it seems you go a bit overboard with this (this post was a fine example). I do believe you have the power to read a romantic/dating situation for what it is, and for what it could or could not be. Keep on plugging my man....there is one out there for you! Mine was not the "obvious" choice, but we have both learned a lot from each other, and that has made us strong.
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dream2020
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2003 11:24 am
Great post, cavfancier.

Codeborg, at I still think you were just trying to provoke us with your story about the dates and the prostitute, but then again, you just may be curious and you allow yourself to be drawn into adventures just to see what will happen. Just be careful about where your curiousity leads , you might get hurt!

My past adventures were not always wise, and one of them almost got me killed so I know what I'm talking about.
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