What's an honest man to do, really?

Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 08:06 pm
Can I join in the "hmmm"ing?

Just in general, mind you, not even specifically about CB's post. There's so much to "hmmm" about ... and normally here we only do the very opposite, just cramming words (and opinions, and judgements) in ... its kinda reassuring and relaxing to be among a hhmmmmm'ing crowd instead for a mo'.

hmmmm ...
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Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 08:19 pm
Sorry I missed your post Sofia ... all points of view very welcome!
(Anyone risking their reputation here, please just create a new account name...)

I was just mulling over the idea that there are a few guys at work
who hire prostitutes from time to time. They certainly don't fit the
sleezebag profile whatsoever ... they're simply looking for some
human contact, of any kind. Some touch, hugs, someone to be there.
They have no where else to turn, nothing they could say or do.

It seems such a shame that our society automatically labels them
the horrible demons abusing women, when so much of the opposite
is true. They love so much, that they're willing to pay whatever is required.

Not everyone, of course, but the ones I've seen anyways.
The handful of prostitutes I've talked with speak fondly of most of
their customers, that they are such sweethearts. Seems like our society,
our system, places stigma and shame wherever the stereotypes
will keep people in line.

I used to think prostitutes were taking advantage of, and abusing,
such caring men. But now I think everyone is in the boat together.
Everyone is a prisoner when they have no other choices.
In a shallow society, everyone gets pushed around, used, and manipulated.

Until we look deeper and treat each other as human beings.
Hmmmmm..... I don't know, random thoughts.
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Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 08:45 pm
I post on a parenting board, where we are having a rather heated discussion about teaching abstinence. I think it's a crock of bull hooey, and am trying to be somewhat tactful but am having a hard time. What I'm really getting annoyed about is the whole thing of "our poor daughters are going to be taken advantage of by bad evil men", and the corollary (is it a corollary?) that women don't have casual sex, women don't have an itch that needs to be scratched, women just want this exalted, pure, spiritual sex with the one man who is their lifetime partner.


(Nice to come here and be un-tactful. Thanks.)

Anyway, I have said a few times now, "Women are horny, too, and that's OK" and am trying to explain how the implicit messages about men are really damaging to everyone. Maybe I'm the luckiest gal in the world, but even through some bad romantic experiences my opinion of men is quite high. So, CodeBorg, consider men recognized for their wonderfulness both here, now, and before I read this, on the other board.

[size=7]WHAT DID SOFIA SAY? (I'm waaaaaaaaaaaay too nosy for my own good...)[/size]
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Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 09:05 pm
were the truth to be known, i do believe that adult wimmins are far more horny than adult mins. IMO
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Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 09:52 pm
Dyslexia, I sort of agree, heehee - now there is an ongoing disagreement I have been having with someone in a nutshell! I agree - in a relationship - I do not find us generally to be as randomly horny - though some women certainly seem to be.

CB - I do not let men pay for me at all - unless they are old friends and I will catch the next tab - and I would most certainly NOT allow a man to pay for such a thing as sex for me - even if I wanted paid-for-sex! If your story is true, I would also see it as very rude to not include one's dinner companion (ie you) in such a scene and NOT because you paid, but from friendliness and courtesy.

The only circumstances in which I might possibly pay for sex for a male friend that I can imagine would be if he was a very close friend, I was not attracted to him at all, and there was some strong reason why he was unable to find a partner for himself, and he was too poor to pay for it himself - since I am very uncomfortable with the whole sex industry. I mean, I would not hesitate to buy lots of other things for a male friend - but that I would find very difficult.
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Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 10:44 pm

I've discovered that most sex is not sex.
It's actually made up of hopes and dreams, fantasies about warmth,
closeness, passion, possession, safety, being taken care of, finally conquering,

Those qualities that a person lacks in life
they often grasp for in sex. Without even realizing.
Sometimes, the more needy they are out in the world, the
more desperately they crave sex as the missing link.
Just because both things are passionate.
Advertisers know this pattern very well.

But most qualities in life can be satisfied in other ways, if one is
amazingly conscious and deliberate about it. A soft pillow.
A dangerous hobby. An artful and creative appreciation for the world.
Sculpture. Massage. Volunteer work.
Even aggressive workaholism ... can satisfy certain emotional needs.

If all the "issues" are removed from a relationship and from sex,
what is left? We simply are. Then sex is just sex.
Closeness is just closeness. Nothing more, nothing less.
One's partner is not there to fulfill a role anymore, but to just be
whatever it is they happen to be.

The mind games people play ... to get their neediness met ...
make them prisoners lost within a relationship.

Would you buy a good friend a teddy bear (as funny as that may really be),
send them to a nurturing hot springs or spa,
or just hang out and talk for an idle afternoon?

Ones presence is an incredibly powerful thing, all by itself.
Should people have to pay money, just to have a human being there?

Hmmmmmm...... random thoughts tonight! Just blurted it out.
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Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 10:49 pm
Very well said CB ;-)
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Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 10:50 pm
So many topics have emerged from the initial post!

I'll try to remember some of the stuff I asked/said.

CB asked if it was wrong to date two women at a time.
I thought wrongness or rightness would be his call. I thought if the date he described was satisfactory to all concerned, who is anyone else to judge it?

I asked CB if it was satisfactory for him.

Then, after reading his initial post again, I became curious as to what would define CB's ideal intimate relationship. It seems, from his post, that mutual exclusivity is not a goal. My dating was geared to fun and getting to know a person, but always toward the goal of exclusivity. Like, Is this the person I want to be with the rest of my life? Not like a hunting mission, but after enjoying the company of a guy for a few dates, or a few months--if I got the vibe the relationship had hit a wall, and wasn't likely to grow further, I would quit dating them and move on to someone else.

I do realize this is not the dating goal of alot of people.

Since CB's 'behavior' for lack of a better word on that date was so outside the norm of what most people consider dating, I was interested in what his ideal relationship would be, and if he thought he could enjoy his ideal intimate relationship, knowing his ideal person was having intimate relationships with other people.
Think older women are more sexed up than their male counterparts.

Did discuss the better reasons for abstinance with my children--abstinance until there is a trusting, loving relationship. Did discuss masturbation with my daughter. (Son didn't need info...) I think people miss how great sex can be when they are introduced to it as a form of recreation, rather than an expression of love. At least when you're younger. After you get old, like most of us, it's nice to enjoy the recreation aspect... I mean, do it no matter what?--with anyone?--for any reason?--at any age? Abstinance should be a part of every good parent's sex conversations with their kids, I believe. Especially in this sex-permeated environment. They should be told there are times it is best not to have sex. That's all abstinance is. A time of not having sex. What's so bad about that?

Do you eat everything you want? Buy everything that appeals to you? I think well-placed abstinance is nothing more than a little self-control.

I'm not suggesting anyone live by my sex credo. Just another opinion.
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cicerone imposter
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 11:28 pm
I think it's more basic than what all of you are talking about. It's animal instinct. Sex is a "natural" act for all animals. If it were not so, most animals would have become extinct. There are other animals in the "animal kingdom" that seeks socialization. That is also natural. Humans need to hold and be held. It provides us with comfort, and satisfies our sexual urges. What fascinates me most is that in the history of Egypt, the phoarohs married their own family members and had sex with them. That was an accepted norm, but most cultures have rules against such intercoarse, because it creates psychological problems in the children. Just another opinion. c.i.
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Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 11:44 pm
Having sex with your own family can create more than psychological problems in children. Children can come out with major deformaties.
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Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 11:44 pm
We are animals though and sex is natural.
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Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 11:46 pm
Hmm, thanks all for your interesting thoughts so far! :-)

There's a full moon out and a community drum circle
all night long, on the river just downstream from here.
Time for some musical intercourse! then sleeping in the sand.
(Just another excuse to make animal noises!)

I'll be back late tommorow but please carry on ...
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Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2003 11:52 pm
Have fun CB ;-)
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Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2003 12:13 am
Like my friend, the Elephant Man said, " I am not an animal. I am a human being."

<Never thought I'd be able to use that one.>
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Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2003 12:15 am
But Sofia, we are animals. We are just human animals ;-)
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Mr Stillwater
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2003 01:24 am
"You and me baby ain't nothin but mammals so lets do it like they do it on the Discovery Channel"

"Do it again now"

"You and me baby aint nothin but mammals so lets do it like they do it on the Discovery Channel"

Sweat Baby Sweat Baby, Sex is a Texas Drought,
and you do the kinda stuff that only Prince would sing about,
so put your hands down by pants and i'll bet you'll feel nuts,
yes im Siskel yes i'm Ebert and your getting two thumbs up,
you've had enough of two hand touch, you want it rough, your out of bounds,
I want you smothered, want you covered like my Waffle Hounds hashbrowns
gonna cook it,just like Coca Cola stock
You are inclined to make me rise an hour early just like daylight savings time"
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Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2003 01:38 am
oh my!!!!
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Mr Stillwater
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2003 01:47 am
The Bloodhound Gang, 'Bad Touch'. Hilarious.
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Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2003 01:51 am
You sure caught me off guard ;-)
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Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2003 07:54 am
Mr Stillwater - imagining your avatar singing those words is funny. Actually, just imagining your avatar singing is funny.
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