Mid-life crisis

I agree, noddy. But for some reason Mr Elf is in "protect Brenda" mode. He insists that she is an upstanding, decent woman who would NEVER have gone to bed with him if he hadn't told her that he "loved me, but was not in love with me" and that our marriage was over and he wanted out.

It is vaguely possible that it is the truth.....he told me that they didn't actually do "everything" until after he had left me.

I tend to question that, since he told me they were flirting covertly for many months, and that he could tell by her "subtle nuances" that she wanted him long before they ever talked about his marriage. She made him think more and more about opening up to her because he could tell from the very beginning that she wanted him, without her ever saying anything. Just in the way she acted, smiled, walked, etc, when he was around.

At this point, I just don't know. I have to admit, though, I do have a trace of respect for her, since she hasn't tried to contact him since June 7th. That does say something, I think. It is quite possible that my husband lied to her (and possibly himself) so much that she was swayed by his words into believing the situation was very, very different than it really was. And it is possible that she fell in love with him at first sight and couldn't help those subtle nuances.

Sheesh....I am making excuses for her too....just like he is. I'm a real fool, aren't I? I just don't know what to think.

Good grief. What a guy your husband is. Protect the mistress at all costs, but step all over the wife in order to accomplish that. Elf, do you realize what he is doing, and his line of reasoning?

I think I see what you see in his remarks.

Freedomelf, I have almost 10 pounds on you (same height) and my husband finds me sexy and curvy (even if I don't). If your husband actually said that B has a better body than you I can't think of any reason to do that other than to hurt you. He's starting to sound a little sadistic.

I'm going to predict that in 1 month the roles will be reversed. He will be more in love than ever with you and you will have moved on, wondering why it took you so long to see that you don't need him. I agree with others who have said that it's about the process and not the outcome, though, and you've come a long way. Good luck to you.

Freedomelf--

Goodness, gracious me-oh-my.

In a successful marriage spouses share good and bad times. This does not mean that you have to share Mr. F's vision of Virtuous, Spineless Brenda who Sucumbed To His Winning Ways.

There is a difference between being a Good Listener and a Garbage Can and a Credulous Garbage Can, at that.



He loved you, but he was not "in love with you"? Maybe he never said the actual cliched words, "My wife doesn't understand me," but I'm betting that he bad-mouthed you to Brenda--while throwing in "once my best friend" and "she has some wonderful qualities" and "she's a wonderful mother" comments to show Brenda how big-hearted he was.


Doesn't Brenda have a track record of having her perpetually virginal heart and hyman deflowered by a succession of unsuitable men and unspeakable cads?

At any rate, Brenda's morals, Brenda's common sense and Brenda's bad judgement in bed partners are not my business--or your business.

So she hasn't contacted him since 6/7/06? Big whoop! Mr. F. is certainly keeping her memory green in his heart by bending your ear.



Look, you're caught up in "Save the Marriage" and "Be Understanding" and "Perhaps he strayed because I wasn't enough woman for him."

You can be a Good Woman and Stand By Your Man without being a doormat.

Mr. F doesn't like being called "Daddy" and he has no problem treating the women in his life like All-Forgiving Mommies. Maybe his own Mommie let him be beaten with a strap, but this doesn't mean that you and Mr. F. and the Memory of Sainted Brenda have to toddle into the sunset together.

Hold your dominion.

yep.....I agree.

In case anyone is interested.....yes, the 6 page, typewritten letter that he gave me was everything he had already said, just like I suspected it would be. He thought I would hate him for saying that he isn't strong enough to even pass her by on the street right now without going to her and talking to her and breaking his heart all over again. He said his "goal" is to know in his heart that he could see her across a crowded room without feeling a desperate need to go to her. He believes that he will eventually get to that point, but that it will take time.

He also said that he is afraid we won't "grow old" together because of our age difference, even though he admitted that I look like we "fit together" NOW......he is afraid that if I started rapidly going downhill looking my age one day, and he keeps looking younger than his age (which he does), that we will start looking like we don't "fit", in appearance.

He says he looks at other women who hit 50 and gets really, really scared that I am going to fall apart soon. But then he thinks that they never looked good in the first place so I probably won't look like that after all, and he takes comfort in that. (??? is anyone else getting the feeling that he only married me because I used to model, and now that I'm washed up on that score he is having second thoughts?? Does he even GIVE THE SLIGHTEST DANG about the rest of me???)

He also said he hates himself for being that shallow, and most of the time he doesn't even think about it.....it's just sometimes that he has this need to have a "trophy wife" to show off. He apologized for being such a bum and said that he has so much self-loathing at this point that he doesn't know why I am putting up with him. He thinks the marriage counselling is helping a great deal, though, and making him realize what's important. (I HOPE SO!!)

So anyway......I thought I'd mention that it was the same old stuff that I thought it would be......no surprises......and who was it that said they didn't think he could stop talking about her??? About an hour after he gave me the letter, he had a "oops, I forgot one thing" moment. I told him that he could bring it up in therapy if he wanted, but as far as me being the sympathetic ear about her any other time, we had already agreed that those days were gone. Therapy sessions were his outlet for talking about her now. The rest of the week was ours and ours alone. She would no longer invade that space. He didn't seem happy, but he had promised and he kept it (so far.)

On the other hand.....we did enjoy Pirates together, and having a frappucino in a little cozy coffeehouse afterwards while the boys stayed home (can you believe they didn't care about seeing it?? crazy). It was fun! So.....heck, can you tell I'm confused? Such is life.


Thanks again.....I got chores....see ya!

Freedomelf--

This is progress--great progress.

You are a Good Woman--and entitled to respect and consideration.

Hold your dominion.

Now I know why he has been so bummed this week. He finally told me that tomorrow is HER birthday. (Ironically, it is also my sister's birthday....the one that is MOST like me out of all 5 of us.) He bought her a new lunch pail and set it aside for her birthday about 2 months ago, and now it's killing him to know that he can't give it to her.

(although I have to admit, I thought it was hilarious. He told me she bought him a very expensive guitar for his present.......which he left with her when he came home, even though he was sorely tempted to keep it.......and he bought her a LUNCH PAIL for hers!)

Anyway, he's a basket case "wondering" if he could have been happy with her, and fantasizing how it would be if he were there. He did say this morning, though, that he believes he is where he should be and that he knows he will get through this......it's just so hard because he can't bear to think of her alone on her birthday.

Someone asked about her past history with men......yes, she has a habit of picking bad ones. She told hubby that her first boyfriend left her messed up for years, and her most recent one before him got her pregnant and wouldn't marry her, but they lived together for several years before she dumped him. He was trying to get back with her when my husband entered the picture, and at one point he threatened to kill my husband. So, yeah.....she has a bad track record. I think that's one of the reasons that my husband is feeling so sorry for her right now....it's breaking his heart to think of her all alone on her big day tomorrow.

Anyway, we have therapy later today so he will probably mention how bad he feels for her. I told him he could only "vent" about her in therapy from now on (although I did let him tell me today about the birthday, and he spent a couple minutes going on about that before I cut it off.)......so I'm sure that therapy from now on will be spent with her dominating the conversation....especially today.

Your husband appears to be on the self-indulgent side and seems to have little to no sensitivity to you.

Are you sure he is what you want?

Freedomelf--



Good for invoking the No Brenda Rule.

I fail to see why a philandering man wants his wife to admire his delicate feelings for the other woman on the other woman's birthday. I suspect he thinks he's projecting his sensitive and caring soul, but he's really coming across as a self-centered egomaniac.

He's feeling sorry for Brenda because she has bad taste in men? Does he include himself in the Ugly List?

Freedomelf, it's obvious Mr elf still has his head where the sun doesn't shine. Your counselor told you the process usually takes years, as was the case with us. He's still totally self-absorbed, but unless that's the way he was before all this, then the day will most likely come when the fog lifts and he will start noticing the things about her he didn't like so much.

There's an infatuation thread on this forum somewhere. Lots of folks gave ideas on what they do to move past an infatuation. Maybe you could pass some of those ideas on to Mr elf.

At this point, I'm not sure of anything......but I want to be very very careful before I throw away a marriage that has meant the world to me for the past 2 decades. I'm glad that you guys are helping me to sort out my feelings and realize that there is more to life than Mr Elf, and I've got to figure out what I want.

Thanks, JB. I will check out the thread. I hope you are right.

In the letter he told me that it bothered him when I mentioned to him that I was surprised that, given his obsession with age, he picked someone that looked a little older than her age. She has sun-worship damage to her eyes and face. I noticed it when I found that pic of her. He told me that after I pointed it out, he started remembering that he didn't like it and was now worried that she would look older than her age before her time. He even started having dreams lately that her eyes were really old and wrinkly, and it scared him and made him want to run. Then he felt guilty for feeling that way, and thought that it was unfair of him to be obsessed with looks. But then....he goes right back to it the next day.......he's so messed up.

To be honest, it turns me off big time. I will NOT be terrified for the rest of my life of every wrinkle I get, thinking that he will leave me. I'd rather throw him out than feel that way. If he doesn't change within the next few months, yes I will make that decision. He told me today that he loved how I looked when he met me, and the fact that I was an Avon manager at the time makes him think that I was a lot more into makeup and stuff back then....and perhaps that's why he remembers me as being a "knockout". Now, he says I'm still really pretty, but it's just not the same. Pffffft......gosh, sometimes I want to KICK THAT MAN!!!!

I want to give it enough time, though. He did say that he realizes that no matter who he is with, he will desperately miss the other one and want to be with her. So neither Brenda nor I can win at this point. He just feels like he needs to sort out his feelings at home, where his family and his wife is.

I'm not sure how that makes me feel. This morning he hugged me and whispered "Don't worry....we'll get through this. You are so good to put up with me." before he left for work.

I'm off to go search for that infatuation thread.......

Freedomelf--

Mr. Elf has foot and mouth disease.

You've got my sympathy.

I'm wondering if you're even going to want to 'get through it' after a while, and he not only has hoof and mouth disease, he's a very shallow man. To go on and on and on about who's pretty or prettier or who looks their age, who's in better shape - I couldn't think of anything less real or less important.

Doesn't he know he's wounded your heart and that sort of talk is only exacerbating the situation? He's a pretty silly boy, all in all.

Yeah. That's part of what I thought your therapist was saying when I commented here. (One skill of couples therapists is to convey a message to one partner without getting the other partner's back up.)

The thing is, mame (and by the way, you are beautiful ) that I honestly never heard one single word about this up until 3 months ago.

He has spent the last 20 years being a good, caring husband who was always there for me. Never once did he complain that I didn't fix myself up. Never once did he say he cared about my putting makeup on. Never did he make me feel like he was looking at any other woman. He told me I was beautiful every single day of my life.

In fact, I just had a conversation with his former boss today, where he worked for 6 years. He called to say that he was "in shock" that hubby could cheat on me. He told me (and apologized for it) that he used to try to GET HIM to cheat, because it was a running joke at the company that hubby only had eyes for me. Sometimes the boss would ask some pretty girl to "hit on him" just so that he could watch hubby squirm...... The boss told me that the guys used to laugh about how I must be the best at, um, something....because no man could resist as much temptation as he did and not even look.

I'm not deluding myself.....this guy, up until he met her, never did give me any indication of this insanity. He was truly a husband sent from heaven.

That's why I'm hesitant to throw him out in the middle of what he believes is utter insanity that he feels. My gut tells me that he will wind up like JB's husband, and realize what an idiot he has been. But, if he doesn't.....then heck, at least I will know I tried. And knowing how much I have forgiven, and been understanding and sympathetic, will probably only make him miss me more if he did wind up choosing her, and realize what he lost.


Perhaps, if he winds up being an utter you-know-what and ultimately kicking me in the teeth, that will be the ultimate revenge.....that he will wind up sorry and there is no way on earth I will take him back. So I want to be sure before I do anything I can't undo......especially for the kids' sakes. There can be no more flip-flopping.

Freedomelf--

You have nothing to lose and everythng to gain by weighing a marriage of 20 years aganst a fling of 3 months--plus six months seduction time.
(Six months of Get Acquainted Lunches isn't happenstance behavior.



Right now he wants you to view the whole affair from his point of view amd to be excedingly greatful that he's chosen to return to his marriage vows.

He also wants you to swallow "Innocent Brenda seduced by the Older Man"--absolving Brenda without blaming him.

He makes apologies for hurting you--and then evaluates you against Brenda for your arm candy potential.

Right now, he doesn't want to recover from Rutting Insanity--he wants to to agree that Brenda belongs on your living room walls as an indication of his Viril Adventure.

He's determined to talk you around until he comes out as a hero.

Lunchbox! Does he shop two months in a advance for your present days? Are his gifts to you more thoughtful? Brenda picks losers because Brenda doesn't think Good Men are in her future.

Mr. Elf seems to give lip service to the idea that you are evaluating your position and your options--but your personal exploration is much less important than his.

Hang in there until hope is gone--or hope is triumphant.

um, Freedomelf ... do you ever suspect that there's an element of him enjoying the drama a bit? I mean, being so desirable to 2 women, either of whom would fall into his arms in a minute?! Decisions, decisions! I'm starting to feel a bit grumpy with him! :wink: It almost feels as though he's milking the situation for all the attention he can get out of it. (& I wonder if you might be expected to feel lucky that he's chosen you! Me, I think he should feel extremely lucky that you're so understanding & tolerant. Many a woman in the same position would have had his guts for garters by now! :wink: )

I'm reading along with an admitted bias (thirty years, forty years, is more painful than ten or twenty - you are hanging on to a turkey). I know sometimes people can deal with all this. I just have less patience for hearing it now as my expectations of a good partnership for life going on from this particular situation of yours is low. I don't post repeatedly so as not to bum you out.

It took me a long time to absorb my/our marriage failing, so I'm not really unsympathetic re your process, even though I sound like it.

Yes.....I have thought of that. I think this attention may be really good for his ego. He said that he has often felt "inferior" in a lot of ways, so I'm sure this is a big ego boost.

Yesterday, we all went out to the pool and I was happy, swimming, when suddenly I looked at my arms and saw that I had a bit of flab hanging down. My first thought was "gosh, I hope he doesn't see that.".....my second thought was....."WHY THE HELL AM I WORRIED ABOUT IT???" And then it hit me how much my world had changed since March, when I was sooooooo secure in the knowledge that he thought I was beautiful, and was crazy about me. I got really depressed, and left the pool, and he followed and asked me what was wrong. I told him, and he hugged me and told me that he thought I was still incredibly beautiful, and that I shouldn't worry......but it just wasn't the same. My confidence in his words is shattered. Then he tried to joke about his flab, and that his hair was falling out, and that he's the one who should worry, not me. Anyway....he joked so much about it, and tried to boost my confidence, so it did get better after a while.

When we were in therapy, hubby said that she had told him that I "robbed the cradle" by marrying him when he was so young (19) while I was already established with a child and a divorce behind me. She can't know ANYTHING about what it was like back then (my husband has such a bad memory, I'm sure he doesn't remember either.) The first time he asked me out, I told him that he should be with girls his own age, and to ask me again in 6 months, because I just didn't want to go out with someone so young. In EXACTLY 6 months, he asked me out again.....and that's when we went out. She doesn't know me at all, and I was really irritated that she could be putting those thoughts in his head. She doesn't know what it was like back then, or how he had been supporting his family since he was 14 and was really, really mature for his age. She doesn't know how he single-handedly took over as "dad" to my son when I went into the hospital, a month before we were married, and how he encouraged me to take those final steps into the courthouse on our wedding day, when I was the one getting cold feet. I'm really disgusted that his memory is so bad, that she could be capable of twisting his thoughts and making him wonder if it wasn't me who dragged HIM into the courthouse.

It's funny, because when he moved in with her, I expressed concern that she would get pregnant. I knew that he didn't want any more children, and was concerned that she would trap him. He came back the next week with accusations that I had trapped HIM by getting pregnant with our son!!!! I had to gently remind him that we were MARRIED for 2 weeks before I got pregnant with our first son! He'd forgotten that, because our son was a premie....and yes, he really was. (No doubt dear little brenda did the math, and figured I was probably a week or two pregnant with him when we got married, and then manipulated him into thinking that I had trapped him. Hubby's memory is so bad, he soaked it up until I reminded him about those conversations we had with the doctor about the extra care needed for preemies, etc.)

Anyway, that's all over.....yesterday passed peacefully, and Mr Elf was a lot better than I thought he would be. He did at one point show me an email that he "almost" sent her, but it was actually not a bad one.....he wrote that he and I were "on the right track", and that he hopes she has moved on and wishes her well in her future life.

But the therapist said that he thought it was a good idea to simply let the day pass without any acknowledgement of her birthday. He felt that by acknowledging it, that only made it important, and Brenda needed to realize that it wasn't important enough to hubby to acknowledge it. He said to simply let it go, and hubby agreed.

I can't help but wonder if that's true though.....sometimes I think an email saying that we are doing well might help to close the situation, but the therapist feels that the affair with her ended June 7th. If hubby emails her, that will delay the "end" of it by over a month in our minds. It is best for it to remain "final" at June 7th. Perhaps he is right.

We had a good day yesterday, and had fun playing games with the kids like scrabble in the morning and cards in the evening after swimming. We hung out and talked most of the day. So anyway.....it was good. He was very considerate, actually, and didn't say much about her. I have to admit, I sometimes start it, because I may be as obsessed about her as he is......I don't know. I've got to learn to let it go, too.

Hubby says he believes that we will make it, but right now he is so broken that he can't give me the words I need.....that he is over her and that he knows he truly wants me more than anything in life. He hopes that he will be able to, very soon, and that I will give him more time, because he doesn't want to be dishonest with me, ever again. He wants to be sure before he tells me this time. So......I guess I will just let it go for a while longer.

I'm just so tired of it.

Freedomelf--



Suggestible, isn't he?



One more chorus wouldn't really be breaking a promise? It would be like....one more bit of evidence that he's such a sweet and sensitive guy? He hopes she's recovering from he havoc he created in her life, so he's going to rip off her scab and check.

Of course, telling you all about My Birthday Love's Lost Lunchbox is going to make you feel beautiful and beloved?



He makes you feel better by talking all about himself?



Be still my beating heart!



Of course you're tired of it. You've put in more than six weeks of being extensively understanding--and he worries about Brenda being alone on her birthday.

You know what he reminds me of? A kid who badly, badly, badly wants attention starts telling you about a dream he had last night. When he realizes that you're listening intently he goes on and on and on, wildly fabricating more and more detail.

You have him your best during the marriage. I bet Brenda spent nine months listening like crazy. Result? He wants more-more-more about him-him-him.

You get an occasional romantic oration when you're pushed to the edge, but what is he doing to make your life easier? Backrubs? Flowers? Cleaning up the kitchen? Somehow, I sense a void in the romantic works department.

A spontaneous jaunt to Vegas is fun--but I bet he talked about Brenda--and now you're deeper in debt.

I think you can make a go of this marriage--but I think you deserve better.

Hold your dominion.