My Holocaust Problems

The extermination camps were:
Auschwitz-Birkenau, Belzec, Chelmno, Majdanek, Sobibór and Treblinka.

As the term implies, they were built in order to kill Jews, around 4 million poeple were killed (3-3.5 million Jews).

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Eliran wrote:

As the term implies, they were built in order to kill Jews, around 4 million poeple were killed (3-3.5 million Jews).

Well, the term was used by the Allies the first time. The original name for it in German was the very same as for the other camps: "KL Lublin" for instance, concentration camp ...

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I had always thought that "concentration camp" was first used by the English in South Africa at the time of the last Boer War. However, i was corrected in that misconception (and by Walter, i believe), when it was pointed out to me that the term was first used by the Spanish in Cuba.

Wikipedia wrote:

The first camps to bear the name were set up in Cuba during the Spanish-American War, though they were not designated as concentration camps; that term was first used by the British Empire during the Boer War.

It seems that, in a sense, we might both have been correct--in that the Spanish invented the camps, and the English invented the term. It is worth noting that the Germans began setting up such camps before the war, and that upon the outbreak of war with Japan, the United States and Canada both used such camps to "concentrate" the Japanese population of their nations. The term was not yet inimical, and it is not reasonable to assume automatically that all Westerners knew from the beginning that the National Socialists had a program to turn concentration camps into death camps.

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The Nazis concetrated the Jews in the concentration camps for no reason at all. Hundreds of thousands of Jews died from starvation and disaeses, I think these are some reasons to believe something wrong is going on.

It's not that the world didn't know what's going on, they didn't want to know.

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Eliran wrote:

It's not that the world didn't know what's going on, they didn't want to know.

I don't think the truth is as simple as that.

By 1942 the world had already seen the systematic mass starvation & imprisionment of Ukranian farmers, Crimean Tatars, and others in the Soviet paradise, as well as the mass executions of Stalin's political purges. Together these amounted to well over twice the death toll that eventually emerged from the Holicaust. Despite this, left-wing politicians all over the Western World were in denial, clinging to an unrealistic faith in the benevolence of the Soviet experiment. Others were aware of Stalin's horrors, and some even saw the Nazi state as either a counter to it, or at least as an equivalent evil that may fall in a fight to the death with the Soviet one.

In the midst of the murder and terror that had already infected Europe for two decades the prospect of more at the hands of the Nazis didn't seem all that new. That the Nazis were engaged in enslavement of Jews and others was well-known. However, it wasn't until after the fall of Germany that the true scale and ghastly efficiency of the Nazi extermination program became fully evident.

If you are truly in search of knowing denial of mass slaughter, the real evidence points to that of socialist sympathizers towards the far greater slaughters that began in the USSR well before WWII.

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Setanta wrote:

and that upon the outbreak of war with Japan, the United States and Canada both used such camps to "concentrate" the Japanese population of their nations.

I believe the camps in Canada, USA and Australia were always referred to as "internment" camps

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Nevertheless, Pan, the purpose was the same as a concentration camp, and they were more or less indistinguishable on the basis of accomodation.

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georgeob1 wrote:

Despite this, left-wing politicians all over the Western World were in denial, clinging to an unrealistic faith in the benevolence of the Soviet experiment.

This is an unwarranted statement, which appears to derive from nothing more than partisan contempt.

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holocaust
the BBC reports that the "german archives of death" (see link below) will be available to researchers shortly .
it required eleven nations to agree to allow researchers the access to the files .
it is my understanding that the files will at this time not be available to just anyone .
up to this point the international red cross had access to allow the tracing of missing persons .

i've followed this thread for a while , but have not put my 2 cents worth in yet . i'd say it is certainly germany's and the germans darkest hour (proper words fail me).

i can say that a fair number of germans were aware of concentration camps . friends and family members disappeared and people had an idea what had happened . they did not always know all the details ... but they knew ... but what to do ? i know it was talked about among friends ... but then what ?

since the first of these camps were established as early as 1933 - at that time labelled as 're-education camps for communists' - , there is really no doubt in my mind that western governments had a fair idea of what was going on .
there were well-known members of the communist party that were held in these camps at first .
so it was probably thought : "ah , communist trouble-makers , serves them right ".
of course , shortly thereafter social-democrats , union-leaders and others requiring "re-education" wound up in these camps ... and on it went from there .
have to see if i want to dig up some of my books and add further comments ... i really don't know .
hbg

...ARCHIVES OF DEATH...

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Some of the earliest racist laws passed in Germany--as early as 1918-- preceded the Nazis, and were aimed against the Roma and Sinti by the Weimar Republic. They were forced to register with the authorities wherever they'd settle. They were prohibited from traveling freely. By 1933 they were sent to forced-labor camps. In that year, under the sterilization law that was passed that year, many Roma were forcibly sterilized. They were among the first groups of peoples sent to concentration camps in Germany. Their plight paralleled that of the Ashkenazim in that they were also contained in ghettos by the Nazis, and then later sent to the concentration camps.

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InfraBlue wrote:

Some of the earliest racist laws passed in Germany--as early as 1918-- preceded the Nazis, and were aimed against the Roma and Sinti by the Weimar Republic. They were forced to register with the authorities wherever they'd settle. They were prohibited from traveling freely. By 1933 they were sent to forced-labor camps. In that year, under the sterilization law that was passed that year, many Roma were forcibly sterilized. They were among the first groups of peoples sent to concentration camps in Germany. Their plight paralleled that of the Ashkenazim in that they were also contained in ghettos by the Nazis, and then later sent to the concentration camps.

1918 was a kind of nearly totally lawless period in Germany - with no really functioning government and no existing state wherever. (The Weimar republic was instituted in 1919)

Although you are correct about the background situation - such applied and applies to everyone in Germany: we all have to register our residence(s); otherwise you have 'no fixed abode'.
And even today, travelling Sinti and Roma can only park the mobiles at some special grounds and not just there where they want in some municipalities (similar laws/bylaws in France, Austria and - especially - in England).

Historically, the first laws against Sinti and Roma came into force in 1497 and 1498 (they were declared 'outlaw' ("vogelfrei") by two 'Reichstags' then - again).

In 1899, the Bavarian Kingdom started a systematic surveiance of the Sinti and Roma for the first time again in German latest history.
1926 the Bavarian Free State got as first German state the "Gypsi and 'afraid of hard work persons' law".

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Thanks for the details, Walter.

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In the dark
Anyone who thinks that Hitler planned to exterminate the Jews is still living in the postwar intellectual dark ages, a time when WWII propaganda was conscientious and deliberated misrepresented as history. But because it is dismally failed as history, it's currently being transformed into a state religion, with dogmas, taboos, and all the other symptoms of faith-based belief. It's only as a state religion that exterminationist beliefs will survive.

http://holocaust-lies.blogspot.com/

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Re: In the dark

giordansmith wrote:

Anyone who thinks that Hitler planned to exterminate the Jews is still living in the postwar intellectual dark ages, a time when WWII propaganda was conscientious and deliberated misrepresented as history. But because it is dismally failed as history, it's currently being transformed into a state religion, with dogmas, taboos, and all the other symptoms of faith-based belief. It's only as a state religion that exterminationist beliefs will survive.

http://AUTO SPAM FILTERblogspot.com/

giordansmith, your link doesn't work.

Whether the holocaust happened as described or not is irrelevant to the right of free speech. One can say God does not exist and not receive even a rap on the knuckles. One can say millions of Russians were not killed by the Germans and receive likewise. In fact one can say almost anything on earth, above the earth or below the earth and not be punished for it, because of the right of free speech.

One can say, 'African, German, Catholic, Lutheran, Muslim and so on, ad infinitum, and nobody turns a hair. But if one say the word 'jew', one is in big trouble for the simple reason that jews object to being called 'jews'. Why?
Nobody anywhere can criticise any jew, living of dead (without alluding to the fact that they are jewish) without having every jew in the world down on his or her neck. Why?

Now then... Jews claim to be amongst the foremost thinkers and philosophers in the world. Why..? Or, rather, how?

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Re: In the dark
Give me examples where these so-called "Jews" have presumably stopped so-called "free speech" outside of the confines of existing hate laws and other existing laws.

Give me examples where these so-called "Jews" have presumably claimed "to be amongst the foremost thinkers and philosophers in the world".

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