My Holocaust Problems

The master race and all that it implied is clear enough:

The master race (German: Herrenrasse, Herrenvolk (help·info)) is a concept in Nazi ideology, which holds that the Germanic and Nordic people represent an ideal and "pure race". It derives from nineteenth century racial theory, which posited a hierarchy of "races" placing African Bushmen and Indigenous Australians at the bottom of the hierarchy while white, West Europeans were at the top. This concept still exists today among white supremacists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_race

I think you are over compensating for something here.

Apart from noting the hilarity of seeing the verb "to think" in one of your posts, Georgie Boy, i have no further comments on your drivel . . .

I don't doubt the Holocaust did occur. What I can't understand is how this gave the Jews the right to kick the Palestenians out of their homes.

Let me identify what I think are the parameters of this debate. We can stipulate as true what is obvious. There is not a single historian in the world who would deny that the Germans, under Hitler, constructed concentration camps where Hitler incarcerated Jews, gypsies, communists, homosexuals, and just about anyone else that was considered an enemy of the German State. ( By the way, we also have detention camps in the U.S.A.) And there is not a single historian in the world that would deny that thousands of people died in these camps from exhaustion, starvation, and disease. Is there anyone in the world who has not seen the horrific photos of the piles of corpses and the cadaverous near dead camp inmates? And, yes, it is undeniable that thousands more were in fact executed---some were executed in the camps and some in the ditches of Russia.

Nobody denies that. But you know that what I just described is not the definition of the holocaust. And, this is where the so-called revisionists sharply part ways with Lipstadt, and all the zionist spear carriers. It is not enough that the Jews were murdered in the same manner as all the other victims of the third Reich. Jewish death must be the subject of special veneration. Thus, the high priests of the holocaust insist that the holocaust theology rests on a tripod of three specific allegations. Those allegations, (premises,) are as follows:

First, the German government, in World War II, established a national policy to deliberately, and intentionally exterminate a race of people known as the Jews. In other words, the German government formally established a policy of genocide toward the Jews. The end result of this government policy was allegedly the extermination of six million people.

Second, to accomplish this monstrous task the German government used mass execution facilities in the form of cyanide gas chambers.

Third, to dispose of the bodies, and thus the evidence of the crime, the German government cremated the victims.

In essence, the theology of the holocaust demands that the world accept unconditionally that the Germans constructed nothing less than "Death Factories" which they used to both murder and incinerate millions of people.

The first premise, I admit, raises issues that are very problematic. I have never seen any evidence, real or circumstantial, of a conscious decision by any German official to initiate a program of genocide against the Jews. This was allegedly to have occurred at the "Wansee" Conference, but that is all that I have "heard." I have, on the other hand, heard of documents like the "Schlegelberger Memo" which appears to be exculpatory and thus supports an opposite conclusion. But I would be the first to agree that this issue is hardly resolved. An easy answer is that there is nothing in writing and no evidence, either incriminatory or exculpatory.

The argument from the holocaust lobby is that the Germans did not want to leave any written evidence of their crimes. I consider this unlikely knowing the German proclivity for following procedure. They are compulsive record keepers and pathologically "followed orders."

The Russians can attest to this since they recently released the records they captured intact at Auschwitz. They are very detailed records and very thorough. According to the Russians, about seventy thousand people died, from all causes, at Auschwitz. According to the International Red Cross about 300,000 people died in ALL the camps combined. Seems to be a difference of opinion here. However, I would be the first to agree that arguing over the numbers of victims is, in my view, both a diversion and a false issue----an issue that can never be resolved. And, the results of such an argument are both outrageous and ludicrous. If you prove that the Germans only murdered one million people, is it any less of a holocaust? Obviously not.

The second premise is where things get difficult for me, because the second premise is about what the Germans actually did rather than what everyone says they did. When I was a little boy I was taught the litany of horrors. I learned in the most solemn tones of the ashtrays made from Jewish skulls, lampshades from Jewish skin, and soap from Jewish fat. I remember vividly, my Grandmother telling me, with absolute seriousness, that the Germans had built a soap factory at Buchenwald. And, then there was the medical experiments and the bayonet practice etc. etc. I could go on, but you get the idea. I once asked how do we know these horrific things actually happened. "Well, it was in the newspapers." Oh!! Okay. But of course, all of these "truths" were later found to be monstrous lies. Wow! Is it any wonder why people have stopped reading newspapers. I mean what can you believe? Not even Elie Weisel mentions these whoppers. (You have got to love that name.) Speaking of Elie, in his book "NIGHT" ( Kind of a dramatic title for a book don't you think?) he implied very strongly that the preferred method of execution was burning people alive in ditches. You have to admit that is pretty special. Of course that particular horror was also proven to be "an exaggeration."

Then, in high school I was taught, again in the most solemn tones, of the massacre of thousands of Polish army officers in the Katyn Forrest. Again, it was those evil Germans who did it. Admittedly, this is not part of the Jewish holocaust, but I mention it here because it is part of the pantheon of great lies that have come out of WWII. There seems to be a pattern here. And I hasten to add that men, German officers, were actually put to death at Nuremberg for this crime. But, I digress. The truth? Well, the Russians, Mr. Gorbachev himself, confessed to this crime. It was the Bolsheviks that actually murdered over 25,000 Polish officers in the Katyn Forrest. The Bolsheviks did it the old fashioned way--- a bullet in the back of the head. The Bolsheviks were pretty good at that sort of thing. (While we are on the subject of genocide have you ever noticed that the prostitute media never mentions the 13 million people murdered in Russia by the Bolsheviks?) Of course, Gorby had no choice but to admit this crime, since the forensic pathologists and ballistic experts had already figured this out. Can you believe it? There is a difference between German bullets and Russian bullets.

And the gas chambers? I think you would agree that the so-called gas chambers are the sine qua non of the holocaust. Without them, there is NO holocaust. This is where Fred Leuchter comes into the picture. As you know, he was a consultant and expert witness in the Zundel trial. (Held in Canada.)

Mr. Leuchter is supposed to be an expert in executions by toxic gas and has actually built gas chambers. I guess it takes all kinds. Mr. Leuchter went over to Auschwitz and examined the so-called gas chambers and testified at the Zundel trial that not only was there no cyanide gas ever used in these buildings, but it would have been fatal to everyone concerned, including the executioners, if cyanide gas were ever used in these facilities.

Apparently, that hydrocyanic gas is pretty nasty stuff. It leaves indelible stains on everything it comes in contact with. The chemists call it "Prussian Blue." Go figure. And then it is so corrosive that it will eat through just about anything. Believe me, when that stuffs leak out of your gas chamber it can ruin your whole day---and most of next week. I would have never guessed it, but just building a gas chamber to safely contain cyanide gas is a daunting task. It requires extensive engineering and expertise. I know you disparage the credibility of Mr. Leuchter, but his findings have been corroborated by others more than once. (Yes, I admit this is not the kind of revelation you will ever see either on CBS or read in the evening newspaper. )

Mr. Germar Rudolf comes to mind. He is a chemist, and graduate of the Max Planck Institute. But, we can't talk to Mr. Rudolf. Because of his heresy, he is now in solitary confinement in a German jail....hmmmmm. Something about "disparaging the dead!" My God, not even George Orwell could have made this up.

There may be a very logical explanation why Leuchter, Rudolf and others could not find the telltale chemical stains in the Auschwitz "gas chamber."

According to the recent admission by one of the curators at Auschwitz, the gas chamber at Auschwitz was built AFTER WWII. (This is not the first time this hapened.) It was built by the Russians. I wonder why the Russians would do that? Do you think it might have something to do with the fact that Jewish Bolsheviks were in control of Poland and Russia at the end of WWII??? Then again, maybe Mr. Leuchter had the wrong gas chamber.

Regarding the third premise, there is no doubt that there were crematoriums at the camps. People died and the bodies had to be disposed of. I never thought much about this allegation until I learned that it takes anywhere from three to six hours at two and half thousand degrees Fahrenheit to incinerate a human body. And that process only consumes the flesh. The bones are left and have to be crushed. Whew!!!! Those bodies are really tough to get rid of. But, according to the theology of the holocaust, we are told that millions of bodies went up in smoke at Auschwitz, Treblinka, Dachau etc.

Now consider this: Germany was so desperate for gasoline and diesel fuel in WWII they had to synthesize fuels out of coal and natural gas. Coal was more precious than gold. Possessing it was the difference between life and death. And yet, we are asked to believe that the Germans, fighting for their national existence, consumed billions of cubic feet of gas to incinerate literally millions of people. I know that this is argument. And, I realize that this point is simply impossible to prove one way or another. What I am saying is that the premise on its face is logically absurd and casts considerable doubt on the whole story.


So, at least one of the legs of the tripod (the second) has been severely damaged, and the other two are showing signs of severe stress. I think you would agree, that If either one of these legs collapses, (especially the part about gas chambers,) then the holocaust becomes myth to be relegated to the dustbin of history. So much of the holocaust story has been shown to be lies. I think you can understand why people all over the world are beginning to suspect that maybe the holocaust is really just another wartime lie created for political and economic advantage. I, of course, have serious doubts.

As a student of history I have read Churchill's six volume tome "The Second World War." (I have the set in my library.) The last volume "Triumph and Tragedy" was copyrighted in 1951, and published in 1953----eight years after the end of WWII and almost eleven years after the so-called Wansee conference, which establishment historians claim was the formal commencement of the Holocaust. This publication is considered to be a definitive history of WWII. It was, of course, written by Winston Churchill, the prime minister of England during WWII. He was not only one of the most prominent historical figures of the twentieth century, but was clearly "on the inside "of every major event in WWII.

Now, keep that thought in mind. Can there be any doubt that the holocaust, according to establishment historians, is the defining moment in the history of WWII? Yet, there is not one single word about this crime against humanity in any of the six volumes written by Winston Churchill.

I have not read General Eisenhower's book "Crusade for Europe," but, I have spoken with people who have read it. And again, I am told, not one word about the holocaust. Charles Degaulle, in his works, neglected to do the same thing. Very strange.

Then we have a subject that is very near and dear to my heart ---- the prisoners of conscience. Men have been beaten nearly to death, some in fact murdered, and quite a few others incarcerated in European jails for committing the heresy of either doubting or questioning the theology of the holocaust. This not only offends me deeply but it raises my suspicions. Only liars, tyrants, and people who have something to hide, would do such a thing. If the truth of the holocaust is so well established then the controversy over the holocaust WOULD HAVE BEEN PUT TO REST A LONG TIME AGO. You do not attack ideas that offend you with violence. You attack them with other ideas, facts, and evidence. This is an Hegelian process and, I assure you, ultimately the truth will come out. If history has taught us anything it is this: There is nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come.

You and I both know why this issue has become so important at this time in world history. But, in case you don't let me spell it out for you.

This is about LIES. Is there any doubt that the history of the twentieth century rests upon a foundation of one monstrous lie after another? All the great lies of WWII are slowly being revealed one by one for what they are and people all over the world are learning the real reasons for fighting that awful global war.

In fact, lies are at the root cause of every war fought by the USA in the last 100 years. Is the current "Gulf War"in Iraq any different? Would it serve any useful purpose to list the sea of lies propagated by the prostitute media? Today, once again, the world stares into the abyss. We are on the cusp of World War Three, and this war will undoubtedly go thermal-nuclear.

Of course, if you are, as I suspect, one of those people who call themselves Christian-Zionist, then you probably think it would be just peachy to have a thermal nuclear war in which millions of people will die -- preferably Arabs and Muslims, of course. How does it go? After we have Armageddon, (that is the best part) then we have the antichrist, then the tribulation, then the rapture etc.,etc. Is that about right? After all, who would Jesus bomb?

So, let me get to the point. It is the international Zionists and their goal of creating "greater Israel" that are driving the world into an expanding war in the middle east. This point is not debatable. So don't bother to try. It is the existence of the holocaust that provided the so-called "moral imperative" for the establishment of the State of Israel.

It is the belief in the holocaust, that provides the "moral cover," the "automatic absolution," for zionist atrocities committed against whoever happens to get in their way. And when the bombs start falling on Iran, the zionists, and their allies, the christian nutcase dispensationalists, those people who accept the holocaust as an article of faith, will undoubtedly seek cover under the protective mythology of the holocaust.

The message, which will emanate throughout the world from the prostitute media, will be as predictable as a broken record: "To save Israel from an Iranian thermal nuclear attack Israel had to attack first. We cannot afford another holocaust. Never Again!!!"

It didn't and it doesn't.


But...you are disingenuous, I think. Your posts suggested you DO doubt the holocaust.

I suggest you look into what the definition of a so-called Palestinian, and whose land it was and when, before you make such sweeping and naive claims that the Jews supposedly kicked "the Palestenians out of their homes". History tells a much different story than your simplistic and naive generalization. Do you even know what a Palestinian is and whose land and it was and when?

As the Jewish Virtual Library documents, your objections are standard dead horses beaten by Holocaust deniers. The library also links to the primary sources necessary to debunk your assertions, and some others too. Thus, there is a side in this discussion that relies on `theology', or blind faith. There is also a side that cab up its claims with primary sources. But the roles are not distributed among the sides the way you think they are.

The Founding Myths of Modern Israel
Roger Garaudy

Softcover, 230 pages
ISBN: 0939484757
Stock Number: 0246
$13.95


"In this headline-making work, a prominent French scholar delivers one powerful blow after another to the pernicious historical myths cited for decades to justify Zionist aggression and repression, including the Israeli legend of a "land without people for a people without land," and the most sacred of Jewish-Zionist icons, the Holocaust extermination story. For financial gain, as an alibi for indefensible policies, and for other reasons, Jews have used what the author calls "theological myths" to arrogate for themselves a "right of theological divine chosenness." The wartime suffering of Europe's Jews, he contends, has been elevated to the status of a secular religion, and is now treated with sacrosanct historical uniqueness.

This readable, thoroughly documented study examines the brutal dispossession and mass expulsion of Palestine's Arabs, exposes the farce of the Nuremberg victors' show trial, and shows that the notorious German "final solution" term referred to a "territorial" program of resettlement, not extermination. Founding Myths details the secret collaboration fo prominent Jews withthe young Nazi regime, and the 1941 offer by some Zionists, including a future israeli prime minister, to join Hitler's Germany in a military alliance against Britain. The author presents a frank assessment of the powerful Jewish-Zionist lobby in the United States, showing how it effectively controls US policy regarding Israel, and plays a crucial role in shaping American public opinion."

source

Jewish Virtual Library ?

Writing their own history hey ?

Fine with me, as long as they cite their primary sources so I can check them. Note that this is more than you can say of your own, yet-to-be-substantiated storyline.

So you think i'm anti-semitic ?
What are these people ?





http://www.nkuk.org/

1. "There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience. They are our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who do not belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy." Israeli president Moshe Katsav. The Jerusalem Post, May 10, 2001

2. "The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more".... Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000

3. " [The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs." Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts". New Statesman, 25 June 1982.

4. "The Palestinians" would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." " Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

5. "When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.

6. "How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to." Golda Maier, March 8, 1969.

7. "There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed." Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969

8. "The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war." Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha'aretz, 19 March 1972.

9. David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): "If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti - Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.

10. Ben Gurion also warned in 1948 : "We must do everything to insure they ( the Palestinians) never do return." Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes. "The old will die and the young will forget."

11. "We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.

12. "Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio. (Certainly the FBI's cover-up of the Israeli spy ring/phone tap scandal suggests that Mr. Sharon may not have been joking.)

13. "We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel... Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours." Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces - Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983.

14. "We must do everything to ensure they [the Palestinian refugees] never do return" David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar's Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.

15. "We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai." David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

16. "We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Israel Koenig, "The Koenig Memorandum"

17. "Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population." Moshe Dayan, address to the Technion, Haifa, reported in Haaretz, April 4, 1969.

18. "We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'" Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

19. Rabin's description of the conquest of Lydda, after the completion of Plan Dalet. "We shall reduce the Arab population to a community of woodcutters and waiters" Uri Lubrani, PM Ben-Gurion's special adviser on Arab Affairs, 1960. From "The Arabs in Israel" by Sabri Jiryas.

20. "There are some who believe that the non-Jewish population, even in a high percentage, within our borders will be more effectively under our surveillance; and there are some who believe the contrary, i.e., that it is easier to carry out surveillance over the activities of a neighbor than over those of a tenant. tend to support the latter view and have an additional argument:...the need to sustain the character of the state which will henceforth be Jewish...with a non-Jewish minority limited to 15 percent. I had already reached this fundamental position as early as 1940 [and] it is entered in my diary." Joseph Weitz, head of the Jewish Agency's Colonization Department. From Israel: an Apartheid State by Uri Davis, p.5.

21. "Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours... Everything we don't grab will go to them." Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

22. "It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism,colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands." Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.

23. "Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment... Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly." Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the Arabs of Palestine,Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 entry.

24. "One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]

25. "We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will meet our demands and needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of our own." (You Gentiles, by Jewish Author Maurice Samuels, p. 155).

26. "We will have a world government whether you like it or not. The only question is whether that government will be achieved by conquest or consent." (Jewish Banker Paul Warburg, February 17, 1950, as he testified before the U.S. Senate).

27. "We will establish ourselves in Palestine whether you like it or not...You can hasten our arrival or you can equally retard it. It is however better for you to help us so as to avoid our constructive powers being turned into a destructive power which will overthrow the world." (Chaim Weizmann, Published in "Judische Rundschau," No. 4, 1920)

SHUSHhhhh its bad to talk about Israel...its anti-simitic. :wink:

I couldn't care less what you are, so I don't have an opinion about it. In the context of this thread, all I care about is that you are peddling a conspiracy story about "holocaust theology", and that 12 pages into this thread, you still haven't backed up that story with any primary source.

Jesus Christ couldn´t please them when he was here on Earth, so how could anyone expect that I would have any luck. -President Harry S. Truman under pressure to recognize the newly announced Zionist state in Israel.1
For all its disappointments, Israel is who we are, uncamouflaged and unadorned.
- Hillel Halkin2

American Jews must have the courage to declare openly that they have a double loyalty - to the country in which they live, and to the state of Israel. The Jew must not let himself be talked into merely being a good patriot of a country in which he lives.3
In the Zionist movement's new campaign to 'conquer the communities of Free Diaspora, the government of Israel will give every moral and political support...to the limits of its capacity.4

As I delved deeper into the Jewish question and Zionism, attempting to get a clear understanding of this enigmatic people, I realized that exploring the foundations and policies of the modern nation of Israel would answer some of my questions. For the first time in over 2000 years, Jews had their own sovereign state, a nation created entirely in their own image.

By the time I began my inquiry, it was obvious to me that the press and the entertainment industry were very pro-Israel. They had induced in me an early prejudice in favor of Israel. I now noticed that the reporters covering the stories for the TV networks and for the major newspapers are usually Jewish. Suspecting that much of my pro-Israel sentiment had come from biased sources, I sought to learn the undisputed basics of the Mideast conflict, and I first turned to my encyclopedias.

I found in my encyclopedias, information similar to what one will find today in the "Israel" article in the very popular Encarta Encyclopedia.

Of the more than 800,000 Arabs who lived in Israeli-held territory before 1948, only about 170,000 remained. The rest became refugees in the surrounding Arab countries.5
In 1948, the year the Israeli nation was set up, more than three-fourths of the entire Palestinian population living in the Israeli-held territory had become refugees. According to Encarta, 630,000 people were no longer able to dwell in their homes and to work on the land where their families had lived for thousands of years. Since then, Israel expanded its borders in the wars of 1956, 1967, 1973, and in the Lebanon invasion in 1982 - creating hundreds of thousands of additional Palestinian refugees.

Would people voluntarily leave their homes, their businesses, their farms? I asked myself. Would they freely choose to live as penniless, stateless people in squalid refugee camps? Obviously, the Zionists had driven them from their homes and property; and furthermore, the expulsion had obviously been intentional, for the Palestinians were forbidden to return to their homes after the fighting ended.

indymedia

If you are trying to make congruent points you have made none, as right from your first words you show your overt ignorance.The fact is there is no demonstrable reliable documentary evidence that there even was a Jesus Christ of which you speak, let alone that somehow this mythical Jesus Christ tried to please whomever you think you are talking about when you use the word "them".

Further where did you get this bizarre notion that this mythical "Jesus Christ couldn't please" whomever you think you are talking about when you use the word "them"?

And just who exactly is this nebulous "them" you make reference to, in light of the fact that the Christian bible relies heavily on myth?

Also where is anyone asking you what luck you would have in pleasing whomever you think you are talking about when you use the word "them"?

Lastly your reference to Jesus Christ "when he was here on Earth" alludes to a superstitious belief that in some fashion this mythical persona is now not of this earth, but still in existence; utterly absurd.

These are just a few of the issues raised as to your utterly bizarre and nonsensical first sentence, let alone the rest of your gibberish which shows no better.

I suggest that someone ask a moderator to transfer this topic to the "Religion", espcecially since now it seems to get a turn in a critic of Christian belief.

A very interesting and informative report in today's Guardian:

Rudolf Vrba - Escapee from Auschwitz who revealed the truth about the camp

Wow, I live near Vancouver!

".......only five succeeded in getting away to reveal the secrets of Auschwitz and to survive the war to tell their stories. Rudolf Vrba, who has died of cancer aged 81, was the most prominent escapee of the five."

"In later life he settled in Vancouver. There he became professor of biochemistry in the pharmacology department of the medical school of the University of British Columbia"

Walter: The strangest part is the complete lack of recognition in any Hebrew Holocaust textbooks, and as to his contribution to Holocaust education, even Israeli scholars belittle it! What's with that?

Wiki has entries on that, too, including a large bibliography:

Rudolf Vrba

New York Times report from April 7, 2006: Rudolf Vrba, 81, Auschwitz Witness, Dies

jews sans frontiere: Remembering the holocaust? (from April 2, 2006; referring to an article in the Globe and Mail)

[There've been numerous reports online last week altogether.]