1
   

Should War Supporters be Drafted into Active War Service

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 11:23 am
OB wrote:
This entire thread is an extrapolation of an Ad Hominem attack and serves mostly to promote flaming and derision, as opposed to rational debate.

Whether OB sees this as not an ad hominem attack is his personal bias and misunderstanding of the term. He accused all participants, but excluded himself from doing same. How arrogant!
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 02:23 pm
OB,
I posted those quotes from anon,and I was attacked and vilified.
You post them,and you are believed.
I wonder why?

As for the topic of this thread,the answer is NOBODY SHOULD BE DRAFTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The all volunteer military is made up of people that WANT to be there,so they do their jobs to the best of their ability.
Draftees wouldnt,because they are not in the service voluntarily.

I think that the politicians that support the war that have kids in the service are over-represented compared to the general population,in terms of percentages.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 02:29 pm
Not this administration. Prove it.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 02:35 pm
mysteryman wrote:
The all volunteer military is made up of people that WANT to be there,so they do their jobs to the best of their ability.
Draftees wouldnt,because they are not in the service voluntarily.


Do you think your qualifyied judgement is proved by the military history of the USA?

Actually, I do wonder how you evaluated this. By personal experience? Reading the various sources? Making own polls?

I made a totally different experience over the 15 years I've been in the military as a conscript.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 03:48 pm
Roxxxanne wrote:
Quote:
I demonstrated why I thought his analogy was spot on.
You did? I must have missed it, can you point me to it?
Confused I must have used a half a dozen examples in my opening post, with plenty of questions to prompt you to consider your errors. You've still answered none of them, nor seemingly made any attempt to understand anything I've written. Why I bother responding to such drivel, I have no idea.

Roxxxanne wrote:
Your strawman picked out the actions of a few and attempted to apply it it to all those who oppose war. That is textbook strawman.
Rolling Eyes Show me one paragraph that illustrates where I did this. Nowhere on this entire thread did I even address "all those who oppose war". Making up arguments is beyond fallacious. What you will probably find is that whatever you misconstrued to justify your false accusation creates the Strawman example you're searching for. Go ahead and try and prove this false. I triple dog-dare you!

Roxxxanne wrote:
I find it laughable that the one who turned this thread into "one big ad hominem" is the one who continues to decry it.
Anon isn't here to decry anything. He's suspended, remember?

Roxxxanne wrote:
Quote:
Argumentum ad antiquitatem (the argument to antiquity or tradition). This is the familiar argument that some policy, behavior, or practice is right or acceptable because "it's always been done that way." This is an extremely popular fallacy in debate rounds; for example, "Every great civilization in history has provided state subsidies for art and culture!" But that fact does not justify continuing the policy.


OB you don't do pseudo-intellectual claptrap well.
Yes, I know… that's why I avoid it at all costs. That's also why I rely heavily on textbook definitions instead specious logic when ever possible. Thanks for noticing.

Roxxxanne wrote:
I merely pointed out that the issue has been around for ages. I didn't point to this as justification.
Laughing BS. What other purpose does pointing out the obvious history serve? I doubt it was new news to anyone.

cicerone imposter wrote:
OB wrote:
This entire thread is an extrapolation of an Ad Hominem attack and serves mostly to promote flaming and derision, as opposed to rational debate.

Whether OB sees this as not an ad hominem attack is his personal bias and misunderstanding of the term. He accused all participants, but excluded himself from doing same. How arrogant!
That would be a handy condensation of Roxanne's BS, CI, but bears no more resemblance to the truth. I provided both the definition to the term and a learning link for you to further your education on logical fallacies. I can't hold your hand any further than that. "Personal bias" is irrelevant (see the definition of Ad Hominem again), and the misunderstanding isn't mine. I accused "all participants" of nothing. (I'll give you partial credit for arrogant. :wink:)

mysteryman wrote:
OB,
I posted those quotes from anon,and I was attacked and vilified.
You post them,and you are believed.
I wonder why?
I would guess that my history of over 6,000 posts, without ever once being caught in a lie, seldom ever contradicting myself (and recognizing it when I do), admitting ignorance and wrongness on numerous occasions, etc., lends me a bit of credibility to my (reasonable) frequent political adversaries as well as those who tend to concur. I also have the benefit of towing neither "party line" on a good deal of issues, so it's difficult to villify me as hyper-partisan. While I'd say a majority of A2Kers disagree with my positions at least as often as not; I think very few doubt my integrity. That's my guess. Thanks again for providing me the opportunity to verify those quotes for myself. Had I not done so; I wouldn't feel at liberty to use them.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 04:12 pm
OB, If you really understood anything about "truth," you wouldn't be conrfirming yourself as the messiah of "integrity" just because you're able to apologize once in awhile for "ignorance and wrongness." Your "logical falicies" are no better.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 04:15 pm
OB wrote:
I provided both the definition to the term and a learning link for you to further your education on logical fallacies. I can't hold your hand any further than that.

Your insults are a ad hominem as they come, but you'lll wouldn't know what an "ad hominem" was if it hit you with a truck.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 04:18 pm
Well, if OB ever needs a refresher course, we practically offer every one of your posts as an example C.I.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 04:21 pm
I never suggested he needed a "refresher" course on anything.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 04:46 pm
I can just


FEEL

the love!!! Can't you??!?
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 04:58 pm
Feelings....Nothing more than feelings.....
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 05:01 pm
Montana wrote:
Feelings....Nothing more than feelings.....


Laughing Laughing


...trying to forget my.....


feelings of Loooove.........
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 05:02 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
OB wrote:
I provided both the definition to the term and a learning link for you to further your education on logical fallacies. I can't hold your hand any further than that.

Your insults are a ad hominem as they come, but you'lll wouldn't know what an "ad hominem" was if it hit you with a truck.
Laughing C.I., your failure to recognize my understanding of the fallacy in question, after I've provided the definition, detailed how it applied and even provided a link for further study; demonstrates a lack of understanding of your own. That being the case in point; alluding to it does not constitute Ad Hominem. Insulting as it may seem, providing the definition, explaining it's relevance and providing a valuable tool for further study really is as much as I can do. Stating as much isn't Ad Hominem either; rather it's somewhere between a matter of willingness and a matter of FACT. I honestly don't think you're prepared to learn anything about fallacies from me, so I again invite you to follow the link and learn them for yourself. In other words: I can't hold your hand any further than that.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 05:02 pm
snood wrote:
Montana wrote:
Feelings....Nothing more than feelings.....


Laughing Laughing


...trying to forget my.....


feelings of Loooove.........


Laughing
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 05:07 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
OB, If you really understood anything about "truth," you wouldn't be conrfirming yourself as the messiah of "integrity" just because you're able to apologize once in awhile for "ignorance and wrongness." Your "logical falicies" are no better.
While you're at it; consult the section labeled Straw man to see the what's wrong with this post. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 05:08 pm
Wow..wow...wow...Feel it....
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 05:20 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
McG's metaphor is spot on, if you take off the partisan shades, folks. But go ahead and keep snickering because you've found a way to call someone else a coward. Real big of you.

How many of you have joined the Peace Corp? Should you be required to if you think they do good work, or are otherwise supportive of their efforts? How many of you have worked for UNICEF? Does no one here have opinions of where they may be needed? I doubt Doctors without Borders ever has a surplus of labor volunteers. How many of you have done so? How many of you think the United States could have done a hell of a lot more for the victims of the Asian Tsunami? How many of you volunteered? Now how many of you think you should have been drafted into service for opining on such matters?

Like McG, I've never volunteered to be a soldier. I came close a couple of times, but never went through with it. I've also never volunteered for the Peace Corp. I came close a couple of times, but never went through with it.

At this stage in life; I believe I can accomplish more through sharing a percentage of my earnings than through volunteering my back. I've donated generously to every one of the causes listed above and feel well within my rights to opine about any of them without answering to anyone.

I don't fight crime (other than a few occasions when it was taking place in front of me), but don't feel it's fair I should be judged a coward for not signing up to be a cop full.

I don't fight fires (other than the time in college I used too much grease in a pot while trying to make my own French fries), but don't feel it's fair I should be judged a coward for not signing up to be a fire-fighter.

I've never been a soldier, but don't feel its fair I should be judged a coward for not signing up to be a soldier.

I also believe in Aids walks, the Million Man March, Pro-Choice Advocacy, Women's Shelters, the March of Dimes, Collecting for UNICEF, the Christian Children's Fund, etc, etc, etc, but haven't participated in all and don't always choose to make time for the one's I do. So what? Can any of you say you take a more proactive roll in the causes you believe in than I? Not counting generous personal donations to a multitude of Charities, I've sponsored and ladeled out soup kitchens for the homeless during holiday seasons, used my business to raise well over $10,000 last year for various local, national and international causes, etc, etc, etc. I have every reason to expect to double our charity drives this year, and catch up to what I've accomplished in year's past. Over the course of my adult life; I assure you Uncle Sam places a much higher value on the tax money raised that is directly attributed to my being a civilian, than any service I could possibly provide as a soldier.

The pretense of this thread is such that in the event a draft was necessary to defend our nation; only those with the courage to admit their convictions would be eligible for it. The true cowards would snicker and laugh, hurl insults like baby-killer and burn the flag, all the while exercising the very freedoms the targets of their insults provide. The author of this thread has stated "I can assure you that I have no phoney concerns for the military ... the more of them that get killed off ... the better!" and "When I heard about Pat Tillman being killed by friendly fire, I about broke a rib from laughing so hard!" Some leader you all have chosen to follow. Rolling Eyes

All that being said; I do feel shame in the FACT that I've never directly served my country. This is a personal shame; that I assure you has nothing to do with the holier than thou superiority being displayed by the accusers of cowardice on this thread. Most everyone of you can probably name a conflict you believed in, yet failed to volunteer for, too. Ah, but that doesn't matter… forget about your own hypocrisy and look down your nose at McG and myself… call us cowards if it makes you feel better about you.



I have come to the conclusion that OB likes to hear himself type, long on verbosity, short on logic, he never addressed anything concerning the refutation of McG's analogy. He calls other poster holier-than-though, cowards etc, then complains about others making ad hominem attacks.

OB claims he and McG have been called cowards while the only one I have seen calling people cowards is OB himself.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 05:28 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
OB wrote:
This entire thread is an extrapolation of an Ad Hominem attack and serves mostly to promote flaming and derision, as opposed to rational debate.

Whether OB sees this as not an ad hominem attack is his personal bias and misunderstanding of the term. He accused all participants, but excluded himself from doing same. How arrogant!


Of course, he is saying that others are irrrational. However, I believe it is not so much arrogance as it is lack of comprehensive ability. OB tries to wow everybody with links that he doesn't understand himself.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 05:30 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
OB, If you really understood anything about "truth," you wouldn't be conrfirming yourself as the messiah of "integrity" just because you're able to apologize once in awhile for "ignorance and wrongness." Your "logical falicies" are no better.
While you're at it; consult the section labeled Straw man to see the what's wrong with this post. :wink:


Why don't you just explain what's wrong yourself?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Mar, 2006 05:34 pm
Teardrops.....
rolling down on my face....



Trying to forget my....

feelings of Lo-o-ove..........
0 Replies
 
 

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