Should War Supporters be Drafted into Active War Service

Yes, indeed DTOM, you nailed that false analogy. I wonder how McG did on his SATs:

soldier is to war as fireman is to fire?

We don't have a draft system anymore in the US. At his news conference yesterday, Mr Bush said something to the effect that "...a future President would have to decide when to bring the troops home from Iraq." Mr Bush's term expires in Jan 2009. That comment caught the ear of numerous reporters and commentators.
Many soldiers are now on their second or even third deployment to Iraq or Afghan. And there is sabre-rattling with Iran and North Korea.
A renewal of the draft is totally hypothetical at this point and the military claims to dislike the idea. But will there be enough enlistees to support the effort?
If there were to be one, who should be excluded from consideration?
I think back to the 1960's when I came of age. Excluded at various times were college students, divinity students, women, and those who could find a loophole (70% or so of the football players at my high school who didn't go to college suddenly developed football related injuries that made them 4-F).

thenk yoo veddy, veddy, set & d'art.

i hated all of that "love it or leave it" and "pinko hippie coward" crap during vietnam and i like the new, improved regurgitation of it now even less.

and it's the same frakkin' type that gets the shittiest about it now as back then. worst of all, we've got a bunch of those mouthy humps runnin' the country.

and that explains a few things for those of us that are a bit older, does it not ?

Probably better than you based on the above.

Yeah you nailed it!

McG's metaphor is spot on, if you take off the partisan shades, folks. But go ahead and keep snickering because you've found a way to call someone else a coward. Real big of you.

How many of you have joined the Peace Corp? Should you be required to if you think they do good work, or are otherwise supportive of their efforts? How many of you have worked for UNICEF? Does no one here have opinions of where they may be needed? I doubt Doctors without Borders ever has a surplus of labor volunteers. How many of you have done so? How many of you think the United States could have done a hell of a lot more for the victims of the Asian Tsunami? How many of you volunteered? Now how many of you think you should have been drafted into service for opining on such matters?

Like McG, I've never volunteered to be a soldier. I came close a couple of times, but never went through with it. I've also never volunteered for the Peace Corp. I came close a couple of times, but never went through with it.

At this stage in life; I believe I can accomplish more through sharing a percentage of my earnings than through volunteering my back. I've donated generously to every one of the causes listed above and feel well within my rights to opine about any of them without answering to anyone.

I don't fight crime (other than a few occasions when it was taking place in front of me), but don't feel it's fair I should be judged a coward for not signing up to be a cop full.

I don't fight fires (other than the time in college I used too much grease in a pot while trying to make my own French fries), but don't feel it's fair I should be judged a coward for not signing up to be a fire-fighter.

I've never been a soldier, but don't feel its fair I should be judged a coward for not signing up to be a soldier.

I also believe in Aids walks, the Million Man March, Pro-Choice Advocacy, Women's Shelters, the March of Dimes, Collecting for UNICEF, the Christian Children's Fund, etc, etc, etc, but haven't participated in all and don't always choose to make time for the one's I do. So what? Can any of you say you take a more proactive roll in the causes you believe in than I? Not counting generous personal donations to a multitude of Charities, I've sponsored and ladeled out soup kitchens for the homeless during holiday seasons, used my business to raise well over $10,000 last year for various local, national and international causes, etc, etc, etc. I have every reason to expect to double our charity drives this year, and catch up to what I've accomplished in year's past. Over the course of my adult life; I assure you Uncle Sam places a much higher value on the tax money raised that is directly attributed to my being a civilian, than any service I could possibly provide as a soldier.

The pretense of this thread is such that in the event a draft was necessary to defend our nation; only those with the courage to admit their convictions would be eligible for it. The true cowards would snicker and laugh, hurl insults like baby-killer and burn the flag, all the while exercising the very freedoms the targets of their insults provide. The author of this thread has stated "I can assure you that I have no phoney concerns for the military ... the more of them that get killed off ... the better!" and "When I heard about Pat Tillman being killed by friendly fire, I about broke a rib from laughing so hard!" Some leader you all have chosen to follow.

All that being said; I do feel shame in the FACT that I've never directly served my country. This is a personal shame; that I assure you has nothing to do with the holier than thou superiority being displayed by the accusers of cowardice on this thread. Most everyone of you can probably name a conflict you believed in, yet failed to volunteer for, too. Ah, but that doesn't matter… forget about your own hypocrisy and look down your nose at McG and myself… call us cowards if it makes you feel better about you.

But no shame that you've chosen to send others to die for a lie in your stead... And not just that, but to cheer on the Great Leader who sends them off to war with the lie on his lips.

Pardon me, but your moral angst seems misplaced.

Did anyone read realjohnboy's post? There is no draft. People signed up to be in the military of their own choosing. Each person decided that they wanted a career as a WARRIOR.

Then again, there probably were some people who thought that being in the military was a cushy way to garner some government benefits, never realizing that they might be called upon to do what they signed on to do. Fight!

I am totally against the draft. I think that it is a form of slavery. But if you CHOOSE that career, you need to realize the ramifications, before signing on the dotted line.

I have a hard time reconciling that conservatives trumpet the fact these soldiers volunteer so liberals shouldn't cluck over them being in war, but are also supposed to sympathize with and cluck over their woundings and deaths. Why.... if that's what they volunteered for? Conservatives scream at anti war people that we're supposed to support our troops out of one side of their mouths... and that we should stop whining because after all these guys volunteered out of the other side of their mouths....
as usual... no consistency.

And I'm not picking a fight with you Phoenix... your post just reminded me of it.....

Bravo, Blueflame! That was awesome and it took guts! That video is priceless ;-)

I would agree with you Phoenix if this attack on Iraq wasn't based on lies.

Well, that's exactly what I've thought all the years this or similar discussions are going on (here), too, bear.

(And wasn't only a conscript but ten years in the alarm reserve as well.)

Although I don't agree that all persons joining a military want to become "warrior" - some countries, like mine, have quite different ideas about the military - all know everywhere in a military force that exactly this is a profession with a very risk of getting wounded and killed. At least, that's what history teaches since centuries.

bvt- I don't want you to think for one minute that I don't have empathy for the young men and women who have been killed or wounded in the war. I certainly do. War is disgusting. If it were up to me, there would be no wars, and people would settle their differences peaceably, over a conference table. But that is not the reality.

I won't even get into what I think about this particular war. (Well, maybe a little) Personally, I think that the war was necessary (and NOT because of the supposed WMDS), but that the government's planning for the war's aftermath was piss poor. And that is all that I am going to say about it!

I imagine most volunteers realize that at one point they could be called to war and possibly die but it's not a great deterrent because in their love of country they assume their commanders will not just send them willy nilly into some meaningless conflict whose main result is just waste, death and destruction for profit or land grabbing in order to have a base of operations for more war and land grabbing.

Those that make it home from such conflicts fall into two groups.

1. Still can't see it that way because of their admirable and blind love of country and devotion to a sense of duty (God Bless them)

2. Those that make it home sadder but wise. ( God bless them)

Montana- I agree that Americans got their full portion of "spin" concerning the necessity of this war. But I still think that what we did was important, but not for the reasons that are bandied about in the media.

important for what besides a base of operations for more wars later?

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=35875

For a long time I have believed that oil was the real reason for the war.............and not just for the war profitteers, although that WAS part of the mix.

Some might enlist because the military is one of the few forms of employment open to them, I suspect. But that shouldn't mean putting their lives on the line for highly dubious political reasons or to support US business enterprises in situations like Iraq. My hunch is that not too many of the sons & daughters of the wealthy have rushed to enlist.

I have never agreed with the draft, and I will never agree with it.

The people who support the war have just as much right to do so as those of us who are opposed. And they have that right because of the men and women who volunteer to uphold that right.

I also believe it's about the oil, but that is still far from a good enough reason to attack a country.
Sure, we can say "what would happen if terrorists took over the oil", but they didn't.
That's like putting someone in jail for life because they just may kill someone some day.

Just recently, Bush said America was all about oil and of course he said it with his usual smug smirk.

Are all these innocent lives actually worth this oil?

People can trade in their SUV's and start driving Hybrid cars, etc.