cav's got it. (Does he ever NOT? Smart cookie.) What I was getting at is that there has long been this social norm of "women put up with sex, men must have it." It seems like what studies there are (and this is a notoriously difficult thing to study) contradict this, and point toward cav's "it's a human thing, not a boy/girl thing" observation.
Rae,
Recently, a young women told my wife she worried about why her husband got Playboy...afterall, he had her.
For many of us older folks, sex was connected to shame...bad...the idea of sharing porn with one's girlfriend or wife was unbelieveable. Now, I realize the value of being up front about one's needs... The notion of planning for a regular night out from the kids makes sense...maybe even telling your partner ahead of time something you would like to try...anticipation...Ron Howard's daughter said at one time Mom and Dad would go to a motel three times a week. They weren't raised with my people.
Oh just realized that something may have not been clear about the study I mentioned -- it wasn't men and women watching the same (male-oriented) porn. It was straight men watching porn made for straight men, straight women watching porn made for straight women (this exists), gay men watching porn made for gay men, lesbians watching porn made for lesbians. Etc.
I once saw a porn movie made for straight women- and believe me, it was VERY effective!
Thanks for the acknowledgement, mapleleaf.
Wish I could express in just a few words what a huge problem this was for me and the ex. And yes, he did know, without a doubt, how much it bothered me. Because he continued to hide his magazines, it made me feel even more self-conscious and not amorous. Then of course, I would be totally blamed for our lack of intimte relations. It was always my fault.
Thanks for the kind words sozobe
Mapleleaf, my wife and I hardly see each other, or at least not as much as we would like to. As much as spontineity is really a hot thing, planning a night together ahead of time does add that anticipatory aspect to the whole thing, and makes it special, and hot in different way. Personally, neither of us are big on porn, we tend to find it more funny than erotic, so we make our own fun
Did I mention that when it comes to drive, my wife is the guy? Hey, just goes to show you, you never know...
Phoenix ~ hope this doesn't change your respect level for me.....
I remember when one of the pay channels came out with movies 'just for women' (no, not Lifetime or WE). 'Soft-porn' movies.
Just like with sappy romance novels, they did nothing for me.
Rae- I think there is no problem with a man taking an occasional look at a porno magazine or film. It is another when it becomes his primary method of sexual stimulation and detracts from the marriage.
Just 'cause it calls itself porn doesn't mean that it's
good porn!
Cav, yeah, porn is rather inherently hilarious. You gotta do some big-time suspension of belief, or dissolve in giggles (which is not necessarily a bad thing!)
Btw I'm happy to see all you married folks (Phoenix, cav, sofia) talking about how just 'cause we're married (not to each other... you know what I mean...
) doesn't mean things are boring!
Phoenix ~ like I said, I wouldn't have had a problem with it if he'd simply shared it with me. My ex will be the first to tell you that I was not a bitch during our marriage, just insecure and I didn't know a whole lot about sex then.
Even though I'd brought it out into the open many times, I often wonder (now) why he continued to hide it from me. That's what hurt the most.
Lol, sozobe, with the weather finally warming up, I sadly look more forward to good corn than good porn
Call it a professional hazard....
What's the porn made for straight women? Soft porn...more story lines? I've heard girls say that's the kind of porn they like better. Or lesbian porn...nothing wrong with a curious girl.
You know how to define "making love?"
-It's what women do while men bang them.
Joke from Maxim magazine.
I don't think most guys just want to fVck, neither most women just want to "make love." Like the porn study, many women won't admit to sleeping around as much as men will, because the double-standard that they think they'll be labeled "easy" or a "whore." But women just want to get laid like guys do.
To answer the main question, sex and love absolutely don't have to go together, but both sex and love are better when they do go together, and both are going good. They're good compliments to each other.
Slappy! What happened while I was away? You've gotten all sentimental and whatnot. lol
lol.....
I agree with Slappy!
God help me!
To add my 2 cents because I can't resist...
I agree with Sofia. I think there can be both in a good relationship. Sometimes it's an expression of love, sometimes I'm just thinking of me, sometimes just of him, sometimes it's gentle, sometimes aggressive - sometimes it's all of those rolled into one.
I think young girls can't always separate their bodies from their emotions. It's all rolled into one and feel that they give up control of one and squelch the other. Not all, but some. The don't think of fulfilling themselves on either level because it's never been something that's outwardly suggested - that a young woman can have sex just for her and can have sex with someone that is truly with her to make her happy. In my youth, your virginity was something you 'gave away', some odd untouchable sacred place to hold onto with all your might. When you lost it, you lost a piece of yourself. Not really a healthy image.
One hopes that she finds it and sometimes she doesn't, hence the cycle that Phoenix describes.
As far as porn - it used to bother me but not so much anymore. It's a conflict - on the one hand, he's with me and that's just a picture and how harmless! Silly to feel threatened by glossy paper or a pic on a computer monitor. On the other I never shake that nagging feeling that what he truly wants is a picture with a DD cup otherwise he'd spend that time looking a photos of me, or if he was so enamored with my brains and personality then what's with the magazines?! I dunno...on and on that goes around in the brain.
I'm being a bit repetitive I suppose. Babbling this evening......
Awww Slappy...you gettin' some these days? If so, maybe it's making you soft, lol
"MEN F**K..... WOMEN MAKE LOVE"
What nonsense.
I agree with Soz (I think thats what she said) that the only reason men or women would confirm the above description is because they have been conditioned to think thats the right thing to say fior them, as man resp. woman. And thats getting less and less. In reality (speaking from my experience, in any case), both men and women will want to f**k or make love, depending on the moment or the kind of relationship.
Slappy, the porn made for straight women mostly just seems to have more character development. Instead of just oh it's the plumber whoops there go my clothes "plotlines", it is more of a conventional love story (i.e. something you'd see in a "regular" movie) that then doesn't fade out at the kiss. I saw one that was a big pick-up scene at a bar, going back to his place, etc., etc., then at the end the camera panned to a wedding picture on the bedside table -- of the two people we'd been watching, taken several years earlier. OK, that sounds totally hokey, but it was fairly well done as these things go. I mean, you're not going to get A-list actors to do this stuff.
I've heard from more than one guy that they prefer this stuff to the plumber-bye-bye-clothes genre.
Sugar, yeah, I know what you're saying. I have mixed feelings about that stuff. On the one hand, porn qua porn doesn't bother me as long as the woman involved wasn't coerced or exploited (and I know that question itself can get really involved, but I'll skip that aspect for now), but the whole airbrushed perfection thing does. I mean, a naked lady is going to make a 15-year-old boy horny, pretty much no matter what. It seems to me like the naked lady should be as normal as possible, since chances are the 15-year-old boy is not going to be able to land the airbrushed goddess or anything close, and what with all the airbrushing even if he lands HER she's not gonna look like that in real life.
If the 15-year-old boy is lucky, he's going to see some real life naked chicks and hopefully that will get him back on track. But I worry about guys who, like, imprint, and are constantly seeking that airbrushed beauty and, duh, not finding her. Or being disappointed in the reality.
nimh, that's what I said. Though I seem to have said it unclearly enough that you and cav are saying it for me better than I said it originally.
Uh, I meant....guys just wanna bang! Cuz' that's all you broads are good for: cleaning, cooking, and fvcking.
Hell yeah! I gotta go beat up some 'tards to impress the chicks. That will get me some.
