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Clemency for Tookie?

 
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 08:47 pm
The case against Williams was based on the testimony of eyewitnesses, including but not limited to accomplices, a broad assortment of physical evidence including but not limited to the firearm purported to have been the weapon in all 4 murders, and a number of self-implicating statements on the part of Williams himself, both in court under oath and otherwise, among other things. Williams excersized every avenue of appeal available under law, with the verdict of guilty and the sentence of death being found fully warranted and without contraindication in each and every circumstance.

Contrary to the assertions of some who champion clemency for Williams, James Garret, who's testimony was highly instrumental in the matter of establishing Williams as the murderer, was not an accomplice, faced no related charges, was not a "jailhouse informant", and in fact had no connection whatsoever with the Williams case beyond the facts Williams often stayed at Garret's residence, kept his shotgun there, and shared with Garret details of the murders and murder scenes that could not have been known by anyone not present at the scenes and times of the murders. Garret was facing unrelated fraud and stolen property charges at the time of his testimony, however, no deal was offered or effected relating to those charges and Garret's testimony in Williams' murder case. Williams further, according to Garret, and as corroborated by yet another witness not under charge in respect to the murders for which Willliams was found guilty, testified that Williams while discussing plans for yet another robbery said he had used his shotgun to "blow away a white guy" during a previous store robbery.

Garret's wife, Esther Garret, also uncharged in the Williams murders was at the time under no criminal charges whatsoever. Mrs. Garret corroborated much of her husband's testimony and provided additional detail concerning statements and admissions made to her or in her presence by Williams, testimony further corroborated by yet other testimony from other witnesses. Mrs. Garret did not have an unblemished criminal history; there had been a string of minor runins, none involving violent crime or anything threatening severe sentencing; however, as that was irrelevant one way or the other, there was no mention of that to the jury.

An accomplice, Alfred Coward, did provide chillingly detailed testimony pertaining to the murders, from an eyewitness perspective. Coward was granted immunity from prosecution pursuant to the Williams matter, but received no compensatory or other special consideration pertaining to his considerable other legal entanglements. The jury was told of the immunity deal, but not of Cowards numerous other then-current and pending criminal prosecutions.

The firearms examiner did not testify that Williams' shotgun had been the murder weapon, but rather that the murders had been committed with a weapon "not inconsistent with" a weapon of the caliber, make, and specific model of the shotgun siezed from Williams and conclusively proved, via official firearms sale and transfer documentation, to have been purchased by Williams. Ammunition from the same production lot as that of the spent casing recovered from one murder scene also was siezed with the shotgun. No other murder or other criminal investigation contemporary with the Williams murders investigations implicated a firearm of that specific type, nor was there any open theft report involving the theft of a weapon of that type. Only a weapon of that specific type could have produced the markings found on the recovered casing, with or without particular characteristics linking to any one specific weapon of the type.

The evidence and the trial proceedures relevant to Williams' conviction and sentencing have withstood every legal challenge presented.
Quote:
PROCEDURAL HISTORY AND APPELLATE REVIEW

To date, Stanley Williams' case has received extensive legal scrutiny in both state and federal court. Since his conviction in 1981, Williams has pursued multiple appeals and habeas corpus petitions. In each and every instance, in both state and federal court, his conviction has been affirmed as appropriate and just.

• On April 18, 1980, the trial court granted Williams' motion to substitute his hand-picked attorney, Joseph Ingber, as attorney of record in place of Gerald Lenoir.

• On January 21, 1981, the jury trial commenced and on March 13, 1981, the jury returned guilty verdicts of four counts of first degree murder and two counts of robbery. The jury also found the special circumstance allegations of robbery-murder and multiple murder to be true. Lastly, the jury found true the special allegations that defendant Williams personally used a shotgun and that a principal was armed with a firearm.

• On March 17, 1981, both parties having rested without presenting evidence at the penalty phase, argument was presented on behalf of the People and defendant Williams as to whether the penalty should be death or life imprisonment without possibility of parole. Following arguments and instructions of law by the Court on this issue, the jury, on March 18, 1981, returned a verdict of death as to each of the charged first-degree murders.

• On April 15, 1981, defendant Williams' motions for a new trial and for modification of the verdict and findings imposing the death penalty were heard by the Court and denied. The trial court then sentenced Williams to death on counts 1, 2, 3 and 7.

• On April 11, 1988, on automatic appeal to the California Supreme Court, in the cases of People v. Stanley Williams, Crim. No. 21977, and In re Stanley Williams, Crim. No. 23806, consolidated under Case No. S004365, and published at (1988) 44 Cal.3d 1127, the imposition of the death penalty was affirmed and defendant Williams' first habeas petition was denied following an evidentiary hearing.

• On January 18, 1989, the California Supreme Court denied defendant Williams' second state habeas petition in Case No. S008526.

• On that same date, January 18, 1988, defendant Williams filed his first federal habeas petition in the United States District Court in Case No. CV89-00327SVW. The district court held that petition in abeyance while defendant Williams returned to the California Supreme Court with his unexhausted claims.

• On April 11, 1994, following another evidentiary hearing, the California Supreme Court denied defendant Williams' third state habeas petition in Case No. S011868, published at (1994) 7 Cal.4th 572.

• On June 21, 1995, the California Supreme Court denied defendant Williams' fourth state habeas petition in Case No. S039285.

• On December 21, 1988, defendant Williams returned to federal court and, following an evidentiary hearing, the United States District Court denied defendant Williams' amended habeas petition in Case No. CV89-00327-SVW, and published its order at (1998) 41 F.Supp.2d 1043.

• On December 17, 1999, defendant Williams' subsequent Rule 60(b) motion to reopen the judgment was denied, and the order was published at (1999) 1999 WL 1320903.

• On September 10, 2002, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit denied defendant Williams' direct appeal and Rule 6 (b) motion in Case Nos. 99-99018 and 00-99001, published at (2002)306 F.3d 665.

• On September 9, 2004, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals amended the opinion and denied defendant Williams' petition for rehearing and suggestion for rehearing en banc, published at (2004) 384 F.3d 567.

• On February 2, 2005, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals denied defendant Williams' subsequent petition for rehearing and suggestion for rehearing en banc, published at (2005) 396 F.3d 1059.

• Finally, on October 11, 2005, the United States Supreme Court denied defendant Williams' petition for writ of certiorari in Case No. 04-10500.

As this historical accounting proves, Williams has benefited from a detailed and exhaustive review of all of his legal claims and each court has affirmed the guilty verdicts and affirmed the death sentence. In doing so, our courts, both state and federal, have given appropriate and serious consideration to Williams, consideration which Williams so violently denied each of his victims.

Source: http://www.lacountyda.org/pdf/swilliams.pdf


Whatever Williams may have done before he committed those murders, whatever he may have done following his commission of those murders, is wholly immaterial and irrelevant; Williams committed, was arrested in connection and was charged with, was tried on, found guilty of, and sentenced for those murders. In a few hours, Williams' will pay with his life for those murders - payment far, far short of satisfying the arrears but the best that can be managed in any event. It will have to do.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 08:48 pm
We've shot ourselves in the foot again. Tookie would never be out in the world to do harm, but he could have done a lot of good while in prison.
I guess Swartzie wants to look strong.
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 08:48 pm
"why should this animal be allowed to live?" because we, just like him, were not endowed with a right to take someone else's life. if we do, what does that make us? if you kill in vengeance, do you kill a little less?
for these and many other reasons most developed countries in the world banned the death penalty.
0 Replies
 
Stevepax
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 09:00 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Since his victims cannot be brought back,then why should this animal be allowed to live?


For a lifetime of punishment. How is death punishment? Death is a reprieve, not a punishment.

mysteryman wrote:
Special kind of person?
I guess so,I believe in justice.


Anyone with such a thirst to kill as you have demonstrated, is just another Tookie Williams that hasn't happened yet.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 09:07 pm
I'm not all that in much in favorof the death penalty as a general concept, BTW. However, it is the law, and the execution of Williams cannot in any way be considered a miscarriage of justice. If anyone meritted the death penalty, it would be Williams; every qualfcation is met. Yeah, I'd rather see the bastard rot behind bars and be buried without marker, but that isn't the law in this case. The ones who have shot themselves in the foot here are the ones who sought to make this a showpiece case for the anti-death penalty cause.
0 Replies
 
LionTamerX
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 09:12 pm
dag said:

Quote:
if you kill in vengeance, do you kill a little less?


Beautifully said, Dag.
0 Replies
 
Stevepax
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 09:13 pm
timberlandko wrote:
I'm not all that in much in favorof the death penalty as a general concept, BTW. However, it is the law, and the execution of Williams cannot in any way be considered a miscarriage of justice. If anyone meritted the death penalty, it would be Williams; every qualfcation is met. Yeah, I'd rather see the bastard rot behind bars and be buried without marker, but that isn't the law in this case.


I'm with you! I don't consider death a penalty. I'd rather see the bastard live forever. If it were up to me though, prison for Tookie Williams wouldn't be as comfortable as it is. I don't mean cruel and unusal treatment, but he would be working in very uncomfortable surroundings, doing some extremely hard time!
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 10:05 pm
LionTamerX wrote:
dag said:

Quote:
if you kill in vengeance, do you kill a little less?


Beautifully said, Dag.


yup
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 10:13 pm
In theory at least I've got nothing against hanging somebody like Manson or Dennis Rader. Here's the problem: I'd want at least two or three changes to the system before I could feel good about capital punishment anymore.

1. The criterion of guilt should be "beyond any doubt, whatsoever". "Beyond a reasonable doubt" doesn't cut it for capital punishment; you can't unhang somebody.

2. The person in question would have to represent a continuing danger should he ever get loose again. That would seem to eliminate Tookie. It would certainly not eliminate Manson, Rader, or Paul Bernardo as candidates.

3. I'd want to get rid of the present adversarial system of justice and replace it with some sort of inquisitorial system in which the common incentive for all parties was to discover the truth of the matter.

The biggest problem would be finding some sort of an ironclad and foolproof set of criteria for determmmining "guilt beyond any doubt whatsoever". You'd get judges and prosecutors wanting to tell you somebody like Sarah Johnson in Idaho was guilty beyond any and all doubt, while that is simply less than obvious to all observers.

They expected DNA testing to eliminate the prime suspect in felony cases in something like one or two percent of cases and many people were in states of shock when that number came back more like 33 or 35%. That translates into some fabulous number of people sitting around in prisons for stuff they don't know anything at all about since the prime suspect in a felony case usually goes to prison. Moreover, in a state like Texas which executes a hundred people a year or whatever it is, that translates into innocent people being executed on a fairly regular basis.

It's not at all obvious to me that Tookie satisfies either one of the two essential conditions I'd require for executing somebody, i.e. guilty beyond any doubt whatsoever and a continuing danger. Executing him is a mistake.
0 Replies
 
LionTamerX
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 10:44 pm
Good points, Gunga.

I agree.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 11:35 pm
Some good points there - but I don't agree there is any doubt concerning Williams' culpability or sentence - both were determined and repeatedly have been confirmed under law.

Pretty much moot points in the current instance; The Supremes have just sung, and the song was "That's it for Tookie". Barring a major earthquake at San Quentin, Tookie takes the big ride soon after midnight hits California.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Dec, 2005 03:58 am
Having just watched the execution "live" I feel sick.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Dec, 2005 06:52 am
timberlandko wrote:
Some good points there - but I don't agree there is any doubt concerning Williams' culpability or sentence - both were determined and repeatedly have been confirmed under law.



I'd figure there was about one chance in a couple million Tookie was innocent. Nonetheless the whole case against him seems to arise from the testimony of other criminals and people married to other criminals. Examples of cases in which I feel the criteria of guilty beyond any doubt whatsoever was met would be Manson, Rader, Son-of-Sam, Paul Bernardo, and cases of that sort. Tookie doesn't quite qualify.

Likewise with the other criteria of continuing danger. Manson and any of the serial killers qualify and guys who go on ordering crimes on the outside from inside prison cells qualify, but it's far from obvious that Tookie did.

The death penalty to me should be a last resort in cases in which there's no other real way for society to totally protect itself.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Dec, 2005 09:53 am
gungasnake wrote:
I'd figure there was about one chance in a couple million Tookie was innocent.
Yeah but they flipped the coin and he lost, I dont see what your point is. Guilt or innocence has nothing to do with the American legal system as far as I can see.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Dec, 2005 10:02 am
timberlandko wrote:
Some good points there - but I don't agree there is any doubt concerning Williams' culpability or sentence - both were determined and repeatedly have been confirmed under law.

Pretty much moot points in the current instance; The Supremes have just sung, and the song was "That's it for Tookie". Barring a major earthquake at San Quentin, Tookie takes the big ride soon after midnight hits California.


It is astonishing to see how little regard the right-wingers here have for the loss of human life. It is also very revealing.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Dec, 2005 10:13 am
Maybe Tookie should have been concerned for the loss of human life 26 years ago, then maybe he would not have found himself in the position he was in.

Even though I would like to see the death penalty eliminated, I have no sympathy whatsoever for those who face the death penalty. They face this penalty of their own accord. If they do not desire to be put to death, then they need only keep from committing crimes that have the death penalty as punishment. His sentence should have been carried out many years ago.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Dec, 2005 10:13 am
not really. They forgive the sinner while blaming the sin. Pretty simple logic also stupid. "I forgive your sinning tookie, and now I must kill you."
0 Replies
 
jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Dec, 2005 10:18 am
What is astonishing to see is how wrong the left-wingers are about this case. Tookie was a bad man... period. I would have had no problem locking him up for life, but pretending this guy is a good guy that could do good things from jail is completely delusional.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Dec, 2005 10:19 am
Roxxxanne wrote:
timberlandko wrote:
Some good points there - but I don't agree there is any doubt concerning Williams' culpability or sentence - both were determined and repeatedly have been confirmed under law.

Pretty much moot points in the current instance; The Supremes have just sung, and the song was "That's it for Tookie". Barring a major earthquake at San Quentin, Tookie takes the big ride soon after midnight hits California.


It is astonishing to see how little regard the right-wingers here have for the loss of human life. It is also very revealing.


How so? Do you really find it astonishing that "right-wingers" believe in America's system of justice and the application of our laws? The guilty are punished. Seems simple enough. Maybe you are trying to read more into it than that though.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Dec, 2005 10:29 am
Roxxxanne wrote:

It is astonishing to see how little regard the right-wingers here have for the loss of human life. It is also very revealing.


It's astonishing to see how little regard left-wingers have for the rights of victims and their families. It is also very revealing.
0 Replies
 
 

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