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Clemency for Tookie?

 
 
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2005 10:24 am
I support clemency mainly because I oppose the death penalty. I am thinking Scwarzenegger might garnt clemency to garner political support from the left after his disastrous special election defeat.

Quote:



SFGate.com

San Francisco Chronicle
SOUTH CENTRAL'S HOPE: CLEMENCY FOR WILLIAMS
Condemned killer helped invent the L.A. gang lifestyle, but many in this impoverished area don't want to see him die

Peter Fimrite, Chronicle Staff Writer

Saturday, December 10, 2005


Los Angeles -- In the heart of South Central Los Angeles, a place so immersed in the gang lifestyle that even the schools are affiliated with either the Crips or the Bloods, Shiloh Badili paints.

The 52-year-old muralist, like many others in this impoverished flatland, knows what it is like to mourn a relative killed by what he calls "the meanness."

He also knows, as everybody here knows, that Stanley Tookie Williams, the man scheduled to be executed Tuesday morning at San Quentin State Prison, played a pivotal role in plunging the neighborhood down that dark path when he started the Crips gang 35 years ago.

Badili, nevertheless, believes that Williams' life should be spared. He believes it, he said, for the same reason he scrapes together his pennies to purchase paint and bathe vacant storefronts and buildings with colorful images.

"Just like that mural is reawakening the neighborhood, turning something bad into something good, Tookie is using his incarceration time that usually makes people miserable to make life better for others," Badili said. "Commuting his sentence could be the good thing that allows good to blossom here in South Central."

Badili speaks, generally, for many people in South Central Los Angeles, where the plight of Williams is on everybody's mind. An informal street-corner survey by The Chronicle found people sympathetic to the families of Williams' victims but no one favoring his execution. "Spare Tookie" is the refrain on the streets and in the liquor stores, beauty salons and churches.

Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has said he will issue a decision on clemency by Monday.

The Williams case has become a cause, like Rodney King, whose beating by police in 1992 sparked widespread riots in Los Angeles. The people are at once full of hope and afraid that if Williams is executed, the same thing will happen in South Central that happened in the King case.

"If they kill him, there is going to be a riot," said hair stylist Shelton Carter, 43, as he stood at the checkout counter of the West-Vern Liquor & Deli store in an area known as the "Rolling 40s" or "40 Crips," gang lingo that has been adopted even by the police. "I know that he was wrong, but he wrote books and has taken up the cause of stopping gang violence. How is he going to do that if he is dead?"

Williams, convicted of murdering four people in 1979, was widely feared inside and outside prison until he renounced gangs. Over the past decade, he crusaded against gangs, wrote eight children's books opposing the gang life, brokered truces between rival groups and was nominated for several literary awards.

He denies he committed the murders, and many people in his former stomping grounds believe him. There is, and has been at least since Rodney King, rampant suspicion of law enforcement and the justice system in South Central, where police and persecution are considered virtual synonyms.

His case is personal even for residents of his old neighborhood who believe he is guilty, because they have seen the same poverty, lack of education and opportunity that he did. Their support for clemency is, they say, a belief in the redemptive power, and value, of penance, which they believe should count for something.

Brenda White, a 49-year-old employee at a fashionable clothing store at the corner of West Vernon and South Western avenues near Williams' childhood home, said she believes that people can change, that while some mistakes cannot be forgiven, all lives can be redeemed.

"If they put prisoners in there and they reform, that's what it is all about," said White, who knew Williams when she was young and thought he was a "nice" guy. "I believe in the death penalty, but people who change their lives for the better should get a second chance."

White said she struggles every day trying to keep her 15-year-old son out of gangs. She gets down on her knees and prays when he leaves for school.

"I am conflicted in a way because Tookie should never have gotten the gangs started in the first place," she said. "But what he says now might make a difference -- it might save other lives. That should play a part in the clemency decision, or else what sense is there in it?"

There are no illusions in South Central about how much of a problem gangs are in Los Angeles. The Crips, who outnumber the Bloods by almost 2 to 1, have as many as 30,000 members, compared to 2,000 at most during Williams' time, and the two gangs have spread to many other cities, according to gang experts.

There are so many different Crips offshoots that the various groups have split the city into what they call "sets," regions that they control. Drug dealing is rampant, drive-by shootings are common and citizens, business owners and even politicians are targets of intimidation.

The Crips gang formed as a kind of community watchdog group in 1971 after the demise of the Black Panthers. Originally called "Avenue of the Crib," the name was shortened to Cribs and later Crips after it was repeatedly mispronounced, according to Donald Bakeer, the author of "South Central LA Crips," the definitive book on gang life between 1971 and 1986.

Williams founded the "West Side Crips" in South Central, the name an indication that their territory was west of the Harbor Freeway. A man named Raymond Washington founded the "East Side Crips," Bakeer said. He was shot dead in 1979.

The black student union at UCLA wrote a constitution for the Crips in the 1970s, defining the name as meaning "Community Revolution in Progress." The revolution that occurred was a great deal more devastating to the community than the students ever dreamed, and unfortunately, Bakeer said, it is still in progress.

"They were always violent, and Tookie had his fingerprints on lots of murders," said Bakeer, who was a teacher at Williams' former high school. "But the real holocaust is the thousands who have been killed by Crips in South Central L.A. and who are still being killed. As a schoolteacher, I've known over 100 people who've been killed by Crips. It is a constant death rate."

Still, Bakeer said, he supports clemency, not because he feels anything for Williams personally but because of the service he can be to young people from behind bars.

"He discovered what I discovered from teaching in the schools in South Central that the solution is literacy," Bakeer said. "When boys can't read, they have no chance. That's why I want Tookie to stay alive. He is the only one writing to this segment of African American society."

Former Crips member Tommie "T-top" Rivers spent 10 years in prison for gang-related crimes before realizing how ruinous the lifestyle was for him and the community. At 36, he now runs a nonprofit dedicated to helping gang members change their ways. He believes the fight against the gang lifestyle can only be won if former gang members are on the front lines.

"It is imperative to stop it, and it can be stopped," Rivers said. "Tookie is a vital part of that effort. Who better to help stop it than the person who started it? I'm a living example of how second chances can work."

What is at stake, said the Rev. Lewis Logan, pastor at Bethel AME church in the middle of gang territory, is hope for the many people who have taken wrong turns in life.

"You have an issue where hopelessness drives people to destroy themselves and what's around them," said Logan, who has been vigorously campaigning for clemency. "Tookie is seen in this community as a victim of the system, and now it can be argued he has turned his life around. That is the human experience. Everybody, in their own way, goes through that process of redemption. That's why the people can relate to him."

Badili said he understands how people, especially relatives of the victims Williams was convicted of killing, would want revenge.

"I feel empathy for the family members because I know what it feels like to have a loved one taken from you," he said. "But if we put Tookie to death, it would be saying to people that, no matter how good you become in prison, it doesn't matter. You are still going to die."
Defending Williams

Shiloh Badili, painter and muralist

"Tookie is using his incarceration time that usually makes people miserable to make life better for others. Commuting his sentence could be the good thing that allows good to blossom here in South Central."

The Rev. Lewis Logan, who has campaigned for clemency for Williams

"Tookie is seen in this community as a victim of the system, and now it can be argued he has turned his life around. … Everybody goes through that process of redemption. That's why the people can relate to him."

E-mail Peter Fimrite at [email protected].
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Dec, 2005 01:00 pm
Bianca Jagger

12.10.2005
Arbitrary Justice http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bianca-jagger/arbitrary-justice_b_12010.html He appeared calm and at peace with himself. I shook his hand and sat next to him. I had so many questions and knew my time with him was limited. I told him I had recently listened to a debate about his case on National Public Radio (NPR) and felt very disturbed when his defender had to admit that he was not willing to apologise or express remorse for the murders for which he was convicted and condemned to death. I asked him why? He answered in a calm and measured voice "I am innocent, I did not commit the crimes for which I was sentenced to death, I cannot ask for forgiveness and express remorse for a murder I didn't commit, even if by refusing to do so, I risk losing my life. I cannot lie in order to live." He looked me straight in the eyes, and said: "First and foremost, I am innocent. There was no tangible evidence that linked me to the crime -- all evidence was circumstantial hearsay from a discredited informant, a bloody foot print, an indentation from an army boot, the indentation did not match my boots, no finger print that matched mine. At first the ballistic expert declared that the shell didn't match my shotgun. The prosecutor, Robert Martin, told him to try again. This time the ballistic expert said it "was similar," but at the hearing he said it was the same.

They didn't use photomicrography to examine the shells. 'My lawyers are asking to have the shells examined with photomicrograph, to establish what the human eye cannot distinguish' ". I had a sip of water, and asked him why he thought he was convicted and sentenced to death for a crime he didn't commit. "I had a nasty reputation and my reputation was put on trial. I had co-founded the street gang the Crips and had earned a bad reputation for being violent and beating up people. I was tried convicted and sentenced to death by an all white jury -- the prosecutor, Robert Martin, dismissed three prospective black jurors, because he was seeking an all white jury. He is notorious for engaging in racial discrimination. In addition, I had incompetent legal counsel."

He took a sip of his drink and went on to say in a lower voice, "I have apologised on many occasions for my crimes and I genuinely have tried to redeem myself."
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ralpheb
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 12:51 pm
Cry me a river.
He killed 4 people and was responsible for founding a gang that promotes killing. The largest cause of death for young black males between the ages of 8-16 is gang related violence.

Give me the needle, i'll stick it in him personally.
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roverroad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 12:54 pm
Re: Clemency for Tookie?
Roxxxanne wrote:
I support clemency mainly because I oppose the death penalty.


Well that's the deal with most of the people that want clemency for Tookie. They just don't like the death penalty period, regardless of if he did it or not.
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 05:42 pm
the forensic evidence is certainly questionable and tainted and infuriating (4) The prosecution's gun examiner made no effort to compare ejector and extractor marks on the crime scene shell with the test shells, did notidentify the markings on the shells by class, sub-class and individual characteristics, did not take photomicrographs of the shells as has been bestpractice since the 1920's, and did not have a second examiner verify his findings. (See Declaration of David Lamagna, attached as Ex. 10) This was the only physical evidence against Stanley Williams."
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ralpheb
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 05:48 pm
He has attorneys, they have an appeal process-he lost he dies .
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 05:49 pm
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 06:23 pm
ralpheb, the evidence in this case is a joke. This man was framed. The Govorner should see that easy enough. No doubt he will see the frame-up since when reading it it comes right up and slaps you in the face. So if Arnold allows this execution to go forward he will have killed for selfish reasons.
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ralpheb
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 06:49 pm
and nobody in prison is guilty. If he was framed as you say he was then his lawyer should have been able to find the evidence to prove it. He didn't. he's guilty. end of story.
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 07:06 pm
ralph, this story wont end because you declare it. The evidence I posted on this site points more towards Garrett, the witness, than it does to Tookie. The prosecution's forensic expert didn't even conduct proper testing. But you dont seem to care about obviously tainted evidence and witnesses that had a lot to gain by railroading Williams. The shotgun was found under the bed of the main witness and "The Browning shotgun shell was sold at only two local stores, one of which, a Big Five, had been robbed of guns and ammunition by Mr. Garrett the year before."
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ralpheb
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 08:00 pm
Again. He has had numerous appeals to over turn the conviction. His lawyer had numerous attempts to prove that the evidence was invalid. His lawyer during the trial had several times to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that somebody other than "tookie" commited the murders. He didn't accomplish that task. Nor have his current lawyers been able to introduce new evidence that "tookie" did not commit the murders or that some one else did.
So why is there such a cry over poor tookie?
Unless there is evidence where the court will overturn his conviction he's guilty ergo he dies. You will not find sympathy from me for a murder. I will not hold up a banner that says don't kill poor tookie. You will not see me holding up a banner that says die tookie die. But you will notice that until the evidence can prove that he did not do it(ie a person who realy did kill those people stepping up and saying "yep I did it) then I say he should die.
And, I could care less about a "guest columnist" I have little to no use for mass media especially newspapers.
"give me a picture and I'll write a story" Randolph Hearst
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 08:13 pm
Whether or not he was guilty of the crimes as charged seems to be open to some question. The main rationale behind an executive clemency order, however, is that his is a pretty clear case of successful rehabilitation. While in prison, he has written children's books urging kids to renounce violence and gangs. He has been an outspoken advocate of early intervention for youths who are starting lead a gang life. Nobody seems to doubt his sincerity in these endeavors.

Now, before anyone says, "What about the people he [allegedly] killed?" let me ask you, will his death bring them back? Do we demonstrate that killing is wrong by killing someone? I have mixed feelings abut capital punishment myself; I'm not always sure that it isn't justified in some cases. But in this case, where there seems to be some element of doubt about his guilt (no matter how small a doubt) and given his sterling prison record, I believe that his execution would be an undoubted miscarriage of justice.
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ralpheb
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 08:27 pm
He had choices that he could have made earlier in life. If he was so concerned about people he shouldn't have started a gang. I could care less if he lives or dies. But, can you tell me what justice is served by him not fulfilling the sentence that was handed out. All things considered, it seems to me his just a coward afraid of dying and is hoping for some feable excuse to be allowed to live a miserable existance.
Unlike you I don't have mixed emotions about capital punishment. The only problem I have with it is the way that it is not even;y distibuted in a timely manner and that we have become to soft. We can't execute people in certain ways because its inhumane. These people do not show humanity when they rape, beat torture and kill people.
There, I'm off my soap box and that's my view of life. (ya otta be glad my wife isn't on here. She's more brutal than I am.)
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 11:25 pm
I err on the side of mercy and life. Tookie deserves mercy for the same reasons that Karla Fay Tucker did.

Quote:
I could care less if he lives or dies.


That is really sad that anyone would have such disregard for human life. I assume that you support the reproductive rights of women.
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roverroad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Dec, 2005 11:39 pm
The decision has been made: Click here to see Snoods announcement

Now let's get past the sentence and think about the resulting public safety issues.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 07:30 am
Roxxxanne wrote:
I err on the side of mercy and life. Tookie deserves mercy for the same reasons that Karla Fay Tucker did.

Quote:
I could care less if he lives or dies.


That is really sad that anyone would have such disregard for human life. I assume that you support the reproductive rights of women.


Then YOU pay for his food and housing and medical caost for the next 50 years.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 07:31 am
source Williams' supporters also made another pitch directly to the governor Sunday to spare his life, telling Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger in a letter that they had a new witness who could help prove Williams' innocence.

"All we need now is time to investigate to make sure this story is real," said NAACP California President Alice Huffman. "We're hoping and praying for clemency, but we're not going to leave any stone unturned."
0 Replies
 
ralpheb
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 11:32 am
Rox, if you are asking if I support abortion? This is not the thread for that discussion.
I itp my hat to arnie for not buckling under the NAACP and social pressure. I seriously doubted that he would.
Once again, they had how many years to try and prove that he was innocent?
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 11:44 am
I'm against capital punishment. It's barbaric for the state to plan the kill a citizen--I don't care what he may have done. Prison without parole. The fact that it costs money to keep a guy in prison is hardly a reason to kill him. It would make as much sense to kill welfare recipients.

I might find the argument for capital punishment more compelling if I didn't sense a blood-thirsty theme from so many of its advocates. As in, "I'd like to stick the needle in myself." That ain't justice, that's vengeance...
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jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Dec, 2005 11:51 am
I don't really have strong feeling either for or against the death penalty. If people want to lock up a criminal for life (without parole) that is fine with me. IMO, it is money well spent to keep killers and rapists off of the street. However I don't really have a problem with the death penalty either. If the evidence proves beyond a reasonable doubt and the crime was heinous (rapes, murders, pedophilia) I wouldn't lose any sleep over the state taking their life.

I don't really understand this "it isn't justice... it's vengance" arguement, though. Couldn't it be both? Justice in the states eyes and vengance in the victims eyes. Whats the problem with that?
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