Clemency for Tookie?

timberland, once there was no wheel. In this case the forensics expert changed his findings and didn't even use standard testing procedures. Very suspect.

I have really mixed feelings about the message that executing Tookie gives to the prison population.

I can't speak to whether he is innocent, or guilty. That issue has been tried, retried, appealed, etc. I don't know enough, nor do I think I could learn enough to make any better decision than has already been made. All those things have been rehashed by people who have studied it for years. I distrust last minute proof positive that he was framed, or that the evidence was skewed, etc. Where was it before the last few months. I have to believe that the appeal process has been used in every way it is possible. If new evidence, or improper conduct had been an issue, it would have been discovered long before now.

I'm satisfied he is guilty.

What I do have trouble with is the message to the prison population. If there is no clemency and no mercy, why improve? There is no reason to rehab or change, so why do so. Why not run the gang from inside the prison? Why not do whatever you can to get money, power, sell and/or use drugs, ad infinitum.

I know the next question is "what about justice for the victim? Their family?" Where's the punishment. Somehow I think life in prison is a far more horrible penalty than death. Death is escape from prison, escape from further penalty.

Like I say, I have really mixed feelings. It seems there is no real "correct" action here. I'm glad I don't have to be the Guv and decide the issue.

I will 100% support Clemency,AFTER the people he killed are brought back to life.

When he can "unkill" the people he butchered,then he can live.
Till then,I vollunteer to throw the switch on the electric chair.

he says he's innocent (why would he do that if admission of guilt would save his life)
its lethal injection

As most of the people on this site already know MM, his victims cannot be brought back to life. Your willingness to volunteer to throw the switch speaks volumes about you. It takes a special kind of person to want to do such a thing. If you really mean it, you're as much of a murderer in your heart as he is.

Unfortuantely, if you are responding to my post though, you have missed the point, as usual.

I'm not sure I understand that. Are you telling me that if he admits he's guily, he gets a pass on his execution?

yes

""After studying the evidence, searching the history, listening to the arguments and wrestling with the profound consequences, I could find no justification for granting clemency," Mr Schwarzenegger said.




"Stanley Williams insists he is innocent, and that he will not and should not apologise or otherwise atone for the murders of the four victims in this case. Without apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings, there can be no redemption," he said. "

Arnie is a strange animal in Ca. He's a republican actor. I thought all actors in hollywood were democrats.

It does seem that if Tookie confessed he would be granted clemency. It says a great deal about him that he refuses to confess. The forensics in this case are clearly questionable. And the same can be said for many such cases. That issue is bigger than Tookie and bigger than this case. Legal experts have been battling about this for a long while. Better testing is available now. But the expert in this case did not even conduct standard tests that have been used for many decades. Anyway here's some info on the legal wars over forensics. I dont expect any Bushie types to be the least bit interested though. "A CHALLENGE TO THE ADMISSIBILITY OF FIREARMS AND TOOLMARK IDENTIFICATIONS: AMICUS BRIEF PREPARED ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANT IN UNITED STATES V. KAIN, CRIM. NO. 03-573-1 (E.D. PA. 2004) [1]"

INTRODUCTION

The following amicus brief was prepared in connection with a Daubert challenge in federal court to the admission of a firearms and toolmark examiner's testimony that cuts in a fence and grate were made by the defendant's bolt cutters, to the exclusion of all other bolt cutters in the world. Before the brief could be filed with the court, the government offered the defendant a plea bargain that was too good to refuse.



The expert testimony in this case was typical of that offered by firearms and toolmark examiners. The goal of the forensic science discipline of firearms and toolmark identification is to identity particular tools, such as a bolt cutter or the barrel of a particular gun, as the unique source of marks on crime scene evidence, such as a fence or a fired bullet.[2] Although numerous convictions are based on this type of testimony[3], courts have yet to recognize that adequate statistical and empirical foundations have not been developed for these identifications. The following brief explains the systemic scientific problems that should make firearms and toolmark identifications inadmissible in court.[4] http://www.psljournal.com/archives/all/kain.cfm

And I bet this guy wans to control women's bodies when it comes to abortion.

You confuse abortion issues with death peantly issues. If you want to discuss abortion, start a thread on that. This is all about toooookie the killer.
Is this his 15 minutes of fame?

You are the one who is confused, buddy.

The bloodlust is unbelievable! You refer ro getting executed as 15 minutes of fame?

Call it as you may. His whining and sniveling about dying have propelled him into the media spot light. How much did he care about his victims when he shot them with a shotgun and later commented about the sounds they made as they were dying. I show as much compassion for him as he showed and continues to show for his victims. NONE.
Where are the concerns from you bleeding hearts about his victims. I'm sure the families realy like the way the people are coming around to tookies defense and ignoring the basics. He has been alive since 1971 when he killed those four people. But you don't seem to care about them do you?

as much compassion as he had for victims? doesn't that bring you down a level? shouldn't you show more compassion?
how is his death going to bring them back? will vengeance appease the grieving hearts of the families? hardly. will that deter other criminals? no, research shows that adequately.
15 minutes of fame... i bet that's his priority right now. i would think of nothing else facing imminent death.

Because if he's guilty he spends the rest of his life as nothing more than a locked up murderous gang banging thug that nobdy ever remembers. Innocent he gets to become a martyr.

He will only be a martyr for the stupid people that joined his assanine belief system the gangs are important.

Dag, murders will never see compassion on my face. EVER
And I hope that by him facing his immenant death that he begs and cries for mercy. and I hope he receives the same mercy from Gdd that tookie showed for his victims.
Will his death appease his victims families. No. I think they would finally get closure knowing that the murderous bastard that took their familiy members will draw breath no more.
I can care less if it deters criminals. There is NOTHING in society that deters criminal. They will always be.
So, using your logic, lets not even arrest criminals because it doesn't deter future criminals.
hmmmmmmmmmmm nope don't work for me.

Tookie, from what I've read, is a whole lot calmer than the folks protesting. He has made his peace with his god, and is resigned to accept his fate.

Dollars to doughnuts the LAPD is dusting off the riot gear about now...

I was not responding to your comment,because I didnt read it.
Since his victims cannot be brought back,then why should this animal be allowed to live?

Special kind of person?
I guess so,I believe in justice.

Roxxxanne said...


You lose.
While I am opposed to abortion,you can do what you want with your body.I dont care.

But,when a man murders kills people the way he did then laughs about it,he does not deserve to live.

Now,since you lost your bet,take your abortion crap to another thread.

Supreme Court has now denied clemency. Tookie's going bye-bye.