Clemency for Tookie?

Stevepax, I've agreed with some of your statements so far. But, Justwonders is correct that people are placed on the donor waiting list by need and not by finacial eligeabilty(sp).
I very much agree that people who are guarenteed death in prison should not receive transplants. I know it sounds cruel and callus, it's just my belief.

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JustWonders wrote:

I'm just so curious where you get your ideas and opinions about these things.

Medicare provides for anyone at any age in this country who is suffering permanent kidney failure. No one is denied a place on on the waiting list for a kidney transplant, least of all those with financial problems.

The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation coverage of the uninsured

The Uninsured and Their Access to Health Care in PDF

Uninsured in America Key Facts in PDF

Nearly 12 million children are uninsured in the USA

The New Yorker: THE MORAL-HAZARD MYTH - The bad idea behind our failed health-care system.

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ralpheb wrote:

Stevepax, I've agreed with some of your statements so far. But, Justwonders is correct that people are placed on the donor waiting list by need and not by finacial eligeabilty(sp).
I very much agree that people who are guarenteed death in prison should not receive transplants. I know it sounds cruel and callus, it's just my belief.

Good! I just didn't know if that was really true. I'm glad to hear that is the case.

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Yeah, JW ... not sure that's an accurate picture.

Matter of fact, I'm aware of a case in Illinois where an inmate is probably not on an organ waiting list, and that State does not pay for organ transplants for inmates, leaving their families or private insurance to foot the bill.

But maybe I can be shown to be wrong .... ?

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There is a gentleman that I am deployed with that has a daughter on a waiting list and I was having a discussion with him. His daughter moves up as the people in front either receive a transplant or dies. Or, if her condition worsens.
I am not sure if there is still a compatibility issue with transplants or not.
I'm not a doctor and I don't play one on tv either.

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I'm looking through Walters links and I'm not finding that Medicare does that. Frankly I would be surprised if they did. I'm going to keep looking.

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Ticomaya wrote:

Yeah, JW ... not sure that's an accurate picture.

Matter of fact, I'm aware of a case in Illinois where an inmate is probably not on an organ waiting list, and that State does not pay for organ transplants for inmates, leaving their families or private insurance to foot the bill.

But maybe I can be shown to be wrong .... ?

Hmmm. Perhaps he should sue the State. A California inmate did...and won.

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these two links may help answer your questions, to a degree
http://www.4woman.gov
www.organdonor.gov

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Thanks Ralph, I'll check them out.

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Do any of you remember Dr. Death? Dr. Jack Kevorkian. He was a pioneer in "right to death" matters. He helped terminal people die. He ended up in prison for helping the terminal die.

It was his idea that we use the people on death row for spare parts. I have to agree with him, I think it's a great idea!

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JustWonders wrote:

Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
The fault is not that the prisoner gets a kidney transplant when he needs one but rather under the primitive American healthcare system, many poor people cant afford the insurance to get themselves on the waiting list. That is the real outrage. Take your anger out on that injustice, not the prison inmate.

I'm just so curious where you get your ideas and opinions about these things

from the source provided by stevepax..

"His case has set off a series of ethical issues here," said Dr. Susan Tolle, director of the Center for Ethics in Health Care at Oregon Health & Science University in Portland. "A lot of people are angry here because prisoners across the nation are provided a basic health-care package while there are poor working-class families that cannot even afford a package. Many ask, 'Why should we provide health care to a death-row inmate?' I would turn that around and ask, 'Why can't we as a society provide a health-care package for the working poor?' "

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Government Publication: Medicare coverage for kidney dialysis and kidney transplant:

http://www.medicare.gov/publications/pubs/pdf/esrdcoverage.pdf

Medicare is a health insurance program for:

• People 65 years of age and older.

• Some people with disabilities under 65 years of age.

• People with End-Stage Renal Disease or ESRD (permanent kidney failure requiring dialysis or a transplant).

Who is Eligible?

You can get Medicare Part A no matter how old you are if your kidneys no longer work and you need regular dialysis or have had a kidney transplant, and:

• You have worked the required amount of time* under Social Security, the Railroad Retirement Board, or as a government employee; or

• You are getting or are eligible for Social Security or Railroad Retirement benefits; or

• You are the spouse or dependent child of a person who has worked the required amount of time* to be eligible for Medicare or who is getting Social Security or Railroad Retirement benefits.

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Steve, There aren't enough organs to go around. That's the real problem. That was also in my link. No matter if the health care is free, if you don't have enough organs, you're not going to give a transplant to everyone. When you come up with the organs to satisfy the need, then you've solved the problem. I'm in favor of a national health care system, but that isn't the issue.

I just came up with a way to get more organs into the system.

Health care is a serious issue, why don't you start a topic about it?

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Ticomaya wrote:

IronLionZion wrote:
IronLionZion wrote:
I have been to prison, and it sucks, but it's preferable to death by far. If it wasn't people wouldn't be fighting tooth and nail to avoid the death penalty.

Heh. Five minutes after I wrote this post I got a call from my new job telling me I was fired because a criminal background check exposed my record.

Go justice system!

Were you fired because of your record, or because you lied on your application?

I left the slot blank on my application. Hold on everybody - yes, I am aware that that constitutes grounds for firing. Fine. The point is that employers should not be able to ask for that kind of information in the first place. It only puts up another road block to rehabilitation.

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Stevepax wrote:

IronLionZion wrote:
Stevepax wrote:
IronLionZion wrote:
I have been to prison, and it sucks, but it's preferable to death by far. If it wasn't people wouldn't be fighting tooth and nail to avoid the death penalty.

Like I said, we make it way too comfortable for the inmates. If I were running it, they would WISH they were dead.

You're a moron. Jail is a horrible place where brutality reigns supreme. People come out of jails **** up for the rest of thier lives. Yet, you'd make it harsher. The problem with morons like you is that you don't realize these people - people like me - are going to be released one day. Do you really want a man who has ben hardened bya decade of Darwinian brutality to be released on to the streets?

Let me see. I'm a moron, and you're the one that's been in jail. That's some logic you've got going there!

Yes, because whether or not somone has been to jail is the litmus test for intelligence.

Awesome post.

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Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

JustWonders wrote:
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
The fault is not that the prisoner gets a kidney transplant when he needs one but rather under the primitive American healthcare system, many poor people cant afford the insurance to get themselves on the waiting list. That is the real outrage. Take your anger out on that injustice, not the prison inmate.

I'm just so curious where you get your ideas and opinions about these things

from the source provided by stevepax..

"His case has set off a series of ethical issues here," said Dr. Susan Tolle, director of the Center for Ethics in Health Care at Oregon Health & Science University in Portland. "A lot of people are angry here because prisoners across the nation are provided a basic health-care package while there are poor working-class families that cannot even afford a package. Many ask, 'Why should we provide health care to a death-row inmate?' I would turn that around and ask, 'Why can't we as a society provide a health-care package for the working poor?' "

You said, "the primitive American healthcare system, many poor people cant afford the insurance to get themselves on the waiting list, which is what I was responding to. But Steve's source did not say that as your paragraph above shows.

In a perfect world, everyone would have health insurance, but I'd hardly call the system in the US "primitive". And because it's not a perfect world, I see that the NHS in England has announced that perhaps by 2008, they'll be able to cut the wait for hospital treatment to 18 weeks. Maybe. If all goes "perfectly".

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Stevepax wrote:

Health care is a serious issue, why don't you start a topic about it?

Well I could Steve, but to be honest I'm not that really interested. In the UK we have national health system which works reasonably well most of the time. I suggest the US follow the same. But if you don't its not my problem. However if you start a thread, I'm sure I'll contribute, or at least heckle from the back Smile

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ILZ, My wife works as an HR manager. I asked her about whether or not an employer can ask about criminal background questions. She said it was legal and that for her, depending on the crime, she could and would hire a person with a record. If a person leaves that area blank or puts a negative response then it becomes a falsification of the application. Again, depending on the person and the company, the company may continue to keep the employee or may terminate them.
It's interesting, because my wife just told me of a similar circumstance. A person who had been convicted of a felony came to her for employment and marked no to the felony question. It later came out that he had been and what it was for. Guy didn't stand a chance. It was for something my wife finds appauling and she had him terminated.
Whether we like it or not does not change the way that it is.

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Debra, one fine day we'll abolish the death penalty.

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Quote:

The point is that employers should not be able to ask for that kind of information in the first place.

So,if you apply for a job in a pharmacy,I should not be able to ask if you have any kind of felony drug conviction?
Or,if you apply for a job in around children,I shouldnt be able to find out if you have a record as a sexual predator?

Or,if you apply in a bank,should I not be able to find out if you have a conviction for embezzleing money?

You are living in a dream world if you seriously believe that.
As an employer,I have a right and a duty to my customers to find out if you have any felony convictions related to whatever job or industry you are applying for.

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