World stunned as US struggles with Katrina

Here's something interesting to view.
Google satellite pics of Katrina aftermath

msolga wrote:

Yes, there are black people in Oz who live in frightful poverty. It is shameful & wrong. Yes, it's true. I've posted about this on other A2K threads. But that isn't really what we're discussing here.

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It is EXACTLY hat we're discussing. You would be in the SAME position. Why point a finger at someone who mirrors your own situation.

I honestly don't know if an event of such terrible magnitude happened here how different the response would be. You don't know until if happens, do you?

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A good reason to withhold judgement

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But I know one thing for certain, there would definitely be a public backlash in response to so many avoidable deaths & so much misery & pain by so many if there was a perception that some, at least, could have been avoided by more timely & effectual government action.

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If the backlash occurred after we were sure there were unavoidable deaths--or if due to choices people made, they died. A little fairness and rationality is all many people want.

Not a "debate". I just wish people would really think about what they're saying.

Don't feel compelled to respond if you don't feel like it.

Right on top of things, are ya Momma Angel? That's good to hear. Ya want the dirt, the lowdown, get it from Momma Angel. She's sitting up there in Hodge, Jackson County, Louisiana, almost as far away from New Orleans as one can get without settin' foot in Arkansas

Lash wrote:

msolga wrote:

Yes, there are black people in Oz who live in frightful poverty. It is shameful & wrong. Yes, it's true. I've posted about this on other A2K threads. But that isn't really what we're discussing here.

Quote:

It is EXACTLY hat we're discussing. You would be in the SAME position. Why point a finger at someone who mirrors your own situation.

I honestly don't know if an event of such terrible magnitude happened here how different the response would be. You don't know until if happens, do you?

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A good reason to withhold judgement

.

But I know one thing for certain, there would definitely be a public backlash in response to so many avoidable deaths & so much misery & pain by so many if there was a perception that some, at least, could have been avoided by more timely & effectual government action.

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If the backlash occurred after we were sure there were unavoidable deaths--or if due to choices people made, they died. A little fairness and rationality is all many people want.

Not a "debate". I just wish people would really think about what they're saying.

Don't feel compelled to respond if you don't feel like it.

I don't feel compelled & I have thought about what I've said. <sigh>

JTT Wrote:

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Right on top of things, are ya Momma Angel? That's good to hear. Ya want the dirt, the lowdown, get it from Momma Angel. She's sitting up there in Hodge, Jackson County, Louisiana, almost as far away from New Orleans as one can get without settin' foot in Arkansas

First of all, that was just plain rude.

In early 2004, as the cost of the conflict in Iraq soared, President Bush proposed spending less than 20 percent of what the Corps said was needed for Lake Pontchartrain, according to a Feb. 16, 2004, article, in New Orleans CityBusiness.

On June 8, 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana; told the Times-Picayune: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."

Also that June, with the 2004 hurricane season starting, the Corps' project manager Al Naomi went before a local agency, the East Jefferson Levee Authority, and essentially begged for $2 million for urgent work that Washington was now unable to pay for. From the June 18, 2004 Times-Picayune:

"The system is in great shape, but the levees are sinking. Everything is sinking, and if we don't get the money fast enough to raise them, then we can't stay ahead of the settlement," he said. "The problem that we have isn't that the levee is low, but that the federal funds have dried up so that we can't raise them."

The panel authorized that money, and on July 1, 2004, it had to pony up another $250,000 when it learned that stretches of the levee in Metairie had sunk by four feet. The agency had to pay for the work with higher property taxes. The levee board noted in October 2004 that the feds were also now not paying for a hoped-for $15 million project to better shore up the banks of Lake Pontchartrain.

The 2004 hurricane season was the worst in decades. In spite of that, the federal government came back this spring with the steepest reduction in hurricane and flood-control funding for New Orleans in history. Because of the proposed cuts, the Corps office there imposed a hiring freeze. Officials said that money targeted for the SELA project -- $10.4 million, down from $36.5 million -- was not enough to start any new jobs.

There was, at the same time, a growing recognition that more research was needed to see what New Orleans must do to protect itself from a Category 4 or 5 hurricane. But once again, the money was not there. As the Times-Picayune reported last Sept. 22:

"That second study would take about four years to complete and would cost about $4 million, said Army Corps of Engineers project manager Al Naomi. About $300,000 in federal money was proposed for the 2005 fiscal-year budget, and the state had agreed to match that amount. But the cost of the Iraq war forced the Bush administration to order the New Orleans district office not to begin any new studies, and the 2005 budget no longer includes the needed money, he said."

The Senate was seeking to restore some of the SELA funding cuts for 2006. But now it's too late.

One project that a contractor had been racing to finish this summer: a bridge and levee job right at the 17th Street Canal, site of the main breach on Monday.

[continued at]

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313

I don't think you have the stomach for a conversation about this particular thing with me. I tried to be deferential to you by dropping it earlier, but if you want back in, we can have this discussion.

I knew when I asked you that you didn't have a comparable demographic of non-whites in Australia. I don't seek an argument, but I do think people that make declarative statements suvch as many people here, including you, are doing, they should be able to back them up. Certainly, I have found myself to be incorrect about a few things in this manner. I suspect that if we were to examine this subject, one of us would discover her error. That would be a good thing, yes?

Anyway. I leave it to you, but do poop or get off the pot.

The plain truth ain't rude, MA, it's just the plain truth. Just how far is Hodge from NO? 200, 300 miles? Maybe you could fill us in on just how close you got to New Orleans within the critical time window.

Sen. Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) said he had asked the committee with oversight of the Department of Homeland Security, which includes FEMA, to hold hearings on the agency's handling of the hurricane's aftermath after Congress resumes work Tuesday.

One Republican lawmaker, Rep. Mark Foley of Florida, called for FEMA to be separated from the Department of Homeland Security.

"This is not solely a response to the tragedy in the Gulf, but rather it is the result of the increasing evidence that FEMA should not be hindered by a top-heavy bureaucracy when they are needed to act swiftly to save lives," Foley said in a statement.

Republican leaders said they were considering an economic stimulus package that probably would include tax relief for hurricane victims.

House Majority Whip Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) said he agreed with President Bush's remark Friday that the response had been "unacceptable."

"Hard lessons have been learned, tragic lessons have been learned," Blunt said. "We have to respond more quickly; we have to respond in the right ways and be sure our priorities are right."

This sounds like a cheap shot, I know. But how could such a powerful country, which could so easily manage to "shock & awe" another, NOT have the resources & know how to act sooner & so very much better?

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Where was the mistake made? I posted a detailed chronology of the events as threy happened. Since it's so apparent to you what we did wrong, why don't you show where we went wrong and how you could have done better.

How could life just go on, with a tragedy of this magnitude happening "at home"?

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Would life stop at Oz after a flood?

The army, buses, police, food & medical supplies, every useful resource possible should have been there in force BEFORE it happened,

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to be washed away in the flood waters? REALLY?? Are you serious??

when it became so obvious that so many could not leave.

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One day. ONE DAY'S NOTICE. It is irresponsible to make such broad unrealistic statements. Again. What would you have done in one day to prepare???

AT LEAST very soon after it became patently obvious that this was so HUGE. This is shocking & incomprehensible.

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as it will be when you have a natural disaster. Remember this then.

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It's five days after she hit. What kind of lessons do you think have already been learned, and how does that translate to changes being made?

It doesn't. No one has even met to analyze what went wrong and how to fix it. So, I'll stop harping when I see that mistakes have been corrected so they don't happen again.

Finger pointing pity party? Tell that to the thousands that have died.

I happen to be sick of being told to shut up, sit down and stop whining while this country is going to sh!t. Time and again, no matter what the issue, that's what people that see where we are heading are told we should do.

Follow blindly if you like, but I won't sit down and shut up until we get competent leadership.

Don't you think it's just about time for everyone to stop harping on the mistakes that were made? It seems no one hears of the good things that are happening. It's all negative. Just very tired of the negativity. It's turning into one big finger pointing pity party. Let's learn from the mistakes and move on. Bush already said the efforts in Louisiana were unacceptable, but at least he started doing something to turn that around

People are still dead in the water, the crisis hasn't had time to be examined BECAUSE IT'S NOT OVER. It is ludicrious that anyone is standing around tapping their foot while good people are risking their lives to clean up that mess.