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World stunned as US struggles with Katrina

 
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Sep, 2005 04:15 pm
The devil made him do it, I bet.
He will just have to pray more, that's all.
After he's done that, he will probably be able to forgive himself. It used to work for Jim Bakker, anyway.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 04:08 am
Momma Angel wrote:
Squinney,

Just what is it that you want? You know, we had all come to a compromise on this situation.

"Compromise", I suppose, in the sense that you suddenly decided that what BPB said was something "different", because "someone finally said, we need to do both" - when, of course, that was the very same thing we had all been saying all along from the start.

Eg, in my post right before BPB's, I had written that "pointing out what went wrong and demanding solutions in no way needs to detract from helping the aid effort. You can easily have both."

A belated insight, then, perhaps, on your part - dunno about "compromise".

Meanwhile, no surprise to see Bush supporters now do their utmost best to roll back blame unto the shouders of those lower down - the mayor, the governor. Typical enough. Where Truman used to say, "the buck stops here", the adagium of this administration and its supporters has been "the buck goes to anyone we can plausibly roll it off to, preferably those below us".
0 Replies
 
dagmaraka
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 04:37 am
A decent article by Friedman, for once, in today's New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/07/opinion/07friedman.html?ex=1126670400&en=981c47f173192276&ei=5070&emc=eta1

Osama and Katrina

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN


Published: September 7, 2005
On the day after 9/11, I was in Jerusalem and was interviewed by Israeli TV. The reporter asked me, "Do you think the Bush administration is up to responding to this attack?" As best I can recall, I answered: "Absolutely. One thing I can assure you about these guys is that they know how to pull the trigger."

Skip to next paragraph

Fred R. Conrad/The New York Times

More Columns by Thomas L. Friedman

Forum: Thomas L. Friedman's Columns
It was just a gut reaction that George Bush and Dick Cheney were the right guys to deal with Osama. I was not alone in that feeling, and as a result, Mr. Bush got a mandate, almost a blank check, to rule from 9/11 that he never really earned at the polls. Unfortunately, he used that mandate not simply to confront the terrorists but to take a radically uncompassionate conservative agenda - on taxes, stem cells, the environment and foreign treaties - that was going nowhere before 9/11, and drive it into a post-9/11 world. In that sense, 9/11 distorted our politics and society.

Well, if 9/11 is one bookend of the Bush administration, Katrina may be the other. If 9/11 put the wind at President Bush's back, Katrina's put the wind in his face. If the Bush-Cheney team seemed to be the right guys to deal with Osama, they seem exactly the wrong guys to deal with Katrina - and all the rot and misplaced priorities it's exposed here at home.

These are people so much better at inflicting pain than feeling it, so much better at taking things apart than putting them together, so much better at defending "intelligent design" as a theology than practicing it as a policy.

For instance, it's unavoidably obvious that we need a real policy of energy conservation. But President Bush can barely choke out the word "conservation." And can you imagine Mr. Cheney, who has already denounced conservation as a "personal virtue" irrelevant to national policy, now leading such a campaign or confronting oil companies for price gouging?

And then there are the president's standard lines: "It's not the government's money; it's your money," and, "One of the last things that we need to do to this economy is to take money out of your pocket and fuel government." Maybe Mr. Bush will now also tell us: "It's not the government's hurricane - it's your hurricane."

An administration whose tax policy has been dominated by the toweringly selfish Grover Norquist - who has been quoted as saying: "I don't want to abolish government. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub" - doesn't have the instincts for this moment. Mr. Norquist is the only person about whom I would say this: I hope he owns property around the New Orleans levee that was never properly finished because of a lack of tax dollars. I hope his basement got flooded. And I hope that he was busy drowning government in his bathtub when the levee broke and that he had to wait for a U.S. Army helicopter to get out of town.

The Bush team has engaged in a tax giveaway since 9/11 that has had one underlying assumption: There will never be another rainy day. Just spend money. You knew that sooner or later there would be a rainy day, but Karl Rove has assumed it wouldn't happen on Mr. Bush's watch - that someone else would have to clean it up. Well, it did happen on his watch.

Besides ripping away the roofs of New Orleans, Katrina ripped away the argument that we can cut taxes, properly educate our kids, compete with India and China, succeed in Iraq, keep improving the U.S. infrastructure, and take care of a catastrophic emergency - without putting ourselves totally into the debt of Beijing.

So many of the things the Bush team has ignored or distorted under the guise of fighting Osama were exposed by Katrina: its refusal to impose a gasoline tax after 9/11, which would have begun to shift our economy much sooner to more fuel-efficient cars, helped raise money for a rainy day and eased our dependence on the world's worst regimes for energy; its refusal to develop some form of national health care to cover the 40 million uninsured; and its insistence on cutting more taxes, even when that has contributed to incomplete levees and too small an Army to deal with Katrina, Osama and Saddam at the same time.

As my Democratic entrepreneur friend Joel Hyatt once remarked, the Bush team's philosophy since 9/11 has been: "We're at war. Let's party."

Well, the party is over. If Mr. Bush learns the lessons of Katrina, he has a chance to replace his 9/11 mandate with something new and relevant. If that happens, Katrina will have destroyed New Orleans, but helped to restore America. If Mr. Bush goes back to his politics as usual, he'll be thwarted at every turn. Katrina will have destroyed a city and a presidency.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 04:55 am
Nimh stunned as Barbara Bush struggles with the prospect of those people from NO staying all too long in Texas:

Quote:
Meanwhile Mr Bush, already under pressure for the impression that he has been unable to empathise with the poor, mainly black victims of the disaster, was not helped by remarks made by his mother, Barbara, after touring a relief centre in Texas.

"What I'm hearing which is sort of scary is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality," Mrs Bush told the Public Broadcasting Service. "And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them."


Shocked Mad Source

And some good news:

Nations Offer Help to Katrina Victims

Quote:
Impoverished Bangladesh, where millions live on a monsoon- and flood-prone delta, pledged $1 million and offered rescuers. Thailand, recalling U.S. aid after last year's tsunami, offered to send 60 doctors and nurses as well as rice as a "gesture from the heart."

They are among more than 90 countries, rich and poor, proposing assistance to victims of Hurricane Katrina, with Kuwait, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates contributing "very large cash" donations, the State Department said Tuesday.

The Bush administration eagerly accepted a German offer of high-speed pumps to reduce the floodwaters in New Orleans and a Dutch offer of experts on levee reconstruction.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 05:02 am
what do people think will be the final death toll?

(sorry to dwell on this)

<5k
5k>10k
>10k
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 05:05 am
Quote:
what do people think will be the final death toll?


What's the difference? One is even too many! Sad
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 05:14 am
Stalin said one man's death is a tragedy, a million merely a statistic.

Of course one is too many. I'm not trying to start a spread bet on the final tally.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 05:27 am
nimh - Yes, Barbara has a reputation for saying what's on her mind. Many times we would have been better off not being confronted with her elitism.

Steve - Number of dead from Katrina?


Alot more than there should have been.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 05:42 am
squinney

agree more than should have been

whose fault?

federal administration

local administration

or foolish individuals who stayed put
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 05:55 am
Steve- All of the above. There were a lot of mistakes made, by all parties involved. Then again, this was a highly unusual situation, and people have not had much experience with a serious disaster.

The good that will come out of it, I expect, is that both the government and the people will have a greater respect for the damage that Mother Nature can do, and will take steps to minimize the damage that any future catastrophe may bring.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 05:59 am
I saw that Barbara Bush quotation. Unbelievable, eh?

It certainly underlines a very big social problem. Charity will only stretch so far. A big programme of social housing is now required. Can the small-government people lead it?
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 06:24 am
I'll say this.

If you know well in advance (years) that there is a 99% chance of levees breaking if a Cat 4 hits NO,

If you know in advance that a Cat 4 will be devestating to a city or state,

If you know in advance that utilities and methods of communication will fail within cities,

If with all of this in mind the Governor declares an emergency and requests federal assistance three days ahead of the storm making landfall in their state,

And, assistance IS immediate in other areas even before the levees break in NO,

Isn't it incumbent upon us to ask why the federal government didn't do a better job responding in a timely manner?

The current spin applying blame to citiy and state officials over federal responsibility is ludicrous. It's a friggin' disaster. When resources and vital infrastructure are wiped out, how are city officials supposed to have the needed equipment to deal with it? The federal level has what is needed and didn't deliver. Well, not to NO, anyway. They did manage elsewhere and did so BEFORE the levees gave way and flooded NO.

The storm hit early Monday morning. It wasn't reportedly until late Tuesday that the water started pouring into NO. Had FEMA and the NG arrived late Monday, many lives would have been saved. Supposedly they were pre-staged. Why didn't they move?
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 06:35 am
McTag wrote:
I saw that Barbara Bush quotation. Unbelievable, eh?

It certainly underlines a very big social problem. Charity will only stretch so far. A big programme of social housing is now required. Can the small-government people lead it?


Can the situation - in microcosm - be compared to that pertaining to the UK after WW2 when the Attlee government came to power?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 08:03 am
nimh wrote:
Meanwhile, no surprise to see Bush supporters now do their utmost best to roll back blame unto the shouders of those lower down - the mayor, the governor. Typical enough. Where Truman used to say, "the buck stops here", the adagium of this administration and its supporters has been "the buck goes to anyone we can plausibly roll it off to, preferably those below us".


Again, nimh, primary responsibility for disaster relief is on the state and local governments of this country. The federal government supports this effort in times of national emergencies. As much as you want it to be different, if the buck is going to stop anywhere, it should stop on Governor Blanco's desk for gross incompetence and lack of leadership in this crisis.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 09:01 am
Ticomaya wrote:
Again, nimh, primary responsibility for disaster relief is on the state and local governments of this country. [..] As much as you want it to be different, if the buck is going to stop anywhere, it should stop on Governor Blanco's desk for gross incompetence and lack of leadership in this crisis.

And again (Tico is referring to our exchange on the Bush supporters thread), I found this article enlightening in how it maps the extent to which the capacities and actual response of FEMA now signify a clear deterioration of standards of federal response previously.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 09:20 am
Several paper report that

Quote:
On Aug. 26, Louisiana's governor signed a declaration of a state of emergency. In response, on Aug. 27, Bush declared officially a state of emergency in Louisiana and his press office announced: The president's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster-relief efforts ... to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures ... to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe ..."


source here: Red Bluff Daily News

And according to the Financial Times, "n the case of Katrina, Louisiana had the foresight to ask the president for a disaster declaration even before the hurricane hit ground. This was signed on August 27, at which time federal resources should have been deployed en masse."
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 09:43 am
BBB
Lest anyone forget, George W. Bush takes after his mother and her side of the Walker family. Nasty people!

There's not much redeeming history on the Bush side of the family, but not as bad as the Walker clan.

BBB
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 09:46 am
Tico
Ticomaya wrote:
nimh wrote:
Meanwhile, no surprise to see Bush supporters now do their utmost best to roll back blame unto the shouders of those lower down - the mayor, the governor. Typical enough. Where Truman used to say, "the buck stops here", the adagium of this administration and its supporters has been "the buck goes to anyone we can plausibly roll it off to, preferably those below us".


Again, nimh, primary responsibility for disaster relief is on the state and local governments of this country. The federal government supports this effort in times of national emergencies. As much as you want it to be different, if the buck is going to stop anywhere, it should stop on Governor Blanco's desk for gross incompetence and lack of leadership in this crisis.


Tico, if Louisiana's governor was a Republican, would you be praising her leadership?

BBB
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 09:54 am
Re: Tico
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
nimh wrote:
Meanwhile, no surprise to see Bush supporters now do their utmost best to roll back blame unto the shouders of those lower down - the mayor, the governor. Typical enough. Where Truman used to say, "the buck stops here", the adagium of this administration and its supporters has been "the buck goes to anyone we can plausibly roll it off to, preferably those below us".


Again, nimh, primary responsibility for disaster relief is on the state and local governments of this country. The federal government supports this effort in times of national emergencies. As much as you want it to be different, if the buck is going to stop anywhere, it should stop on Governor Blanco's desk for gross incompetence and lack of leadership in this crisis.


Tico, if Louisiana's governor was a Republican, would you be praising her leadership?

BBB


What leadership?
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2005 09:58 am
Says it all doesn't it? A nation divided.
0 Replies
 
 

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