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World stunned as US struggles with Katrina

 
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 10:23 am
squinney wrote:
Again, and I'll reword it so that maybe you can get my point, it's the "hope" that has gotten us to this point.

It's the ignoring the poor while feeding the corporations.

It's the shift from caring about one another to every man for himself mentality.

It's the not in my backyard of the wealthy, which the poor cannot afford to combat for their own communities.

It's the smaller government is good mantra, leave it to faith based charities.

It's the very principles for which the current government stands, for which the neocons and right wing elements have been striving for thirty years, that have lead us to this point where in the case of a national disaster, poor people are left to die, government reaction is slow and no one wants to hear the truth, because it messes with their "hope."

As far as 9/11 and Bush asking us all to continue working... Don't you see the irony in that coming from a man that had just finished a month long vacation?

It's exactly that disconnect between the have's and the have not's, the wrongness of the direction of this administration, that is becoming more focused due to this natural disaster, and I for one, do not want it swept under the carpet or to be dimmed.


Squinney,

I hardly think asking the focus to be shift more on what IS being done instead of what MISTAKES WERE made can be called sweeping it under the rug. I said "let's table it until the people are taken care of" then let's find a way to keep those mistakes from happening again.

There may be some mentality that it's every man for himself but I think the WORLD offering their help as was stated in a previous post in this thread negates that statement quite a bit.

Not ALL of the people left in New Orleans are poor and black! A lot of those people MADE A CONSCIENCE decision to stay. It's true that some could not get out due to their financial circumstances. But, let's be fair. If you are going to talk about the people left, talk about all of them.

And what is this with the haves and have nots? I don't have a lot but I give everything I can. My town is not what you would call a prosperous town but we are doing everything we can do to help these people. Fortunately, our town does not have that every man for himself mentality, especially when it comes to our neighbors.

So what if Bush was on a month long vacation at the time of 9/11? If I were President, I'm sure I'd need a long vacation too! At least he came off of vacation and took the situation in hand and he held this country together. But, now Hurricane Katrina comes along and now you find fault because he was on vacation? He may have been on vacation but he was still the President and he took charge. He brought this country together whether you or others want to accept that or not.

What is tearing our country apart are the ones that continue to find fault with what is wrong. If it's wrong, fine, point it out! Fix it! But fix it once the victims are taken care of. They need our focus. They need us, as a country to be united in our efforts.

What are you supposed to do when you do get there to give your help and you are shot at? What do you do when you are there to take people out of the situation and they refuse to go? Now, the ones that decided to stay in New Orleans (these are the ones that decided to stay when the rescuers were there to take them out), are we supposed to feel sorry for them and concentrate on them? Don't you think the thing to do is continue our efforts to get those out that want to get out? If you offer someone help and they refuse it, what are you supposed to do? Force it down their throats and take them out at gunpoint? Now, wouldn't that be violating their civil rights?

I am just saying (AGAIN) ~ we know what mistakes were made. Now, let's take care of the victims. Once the victims are taken care of, let's sit down and find a solution! Let's figure out how to avoid this kind of thing in the future. Complaining about it does nothing to help. And if hope is what got us where we are today (in your opinion) then why is the world coming to aid these victims? What's wrong with that kind of hope?

Seems as though the Mayor of New Orleans tends to agree with me somewhat. He says, we are making progress, we are looking toward the future. If he can stop blaming and being angry and start looking to the future, why can't you?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 10:45 am
Momma Angel wrote:
What is tearing our country apart are the ones that continue to find fault with what is wrong. If it's wrong, fine, point it out! Fix it! But fix it once the victims are taken care of. They need our focus.

Huh? Yes, "point it out! Fix it!" Thats what we're saying. Why shouldnt we be saying it now? Is our saying it hampering any aid effort? Is my post going to stop a rescue worker from saving someone?

You keep postulating that the complaints are somehow affecting the ability to help adversely. I dont see any evidence for that. Same people who complain are also people who do donate, help out. Some of 'em might do both simply because they care.

OK, so its not your style, sure, fine. But again, like Soz said a coupla times, pointing out what went wrong and demanding solutions in no way needs to detract from helping the aid effort. You can eeasily have both. I posted some news about what went wrong, you posted about an equal length of page about how you think people shouldn't carp about what went wrong. How is either of that (more of) a detraction from actual aid efforts?

Momma Angel wrote:
He brought this country together whether you or others want to accept that or not.

There's a certain unintended, but brilliant irony in this sentence ... pretty much says it all.

One half of the country to the other: our leader brought this country together, its just you folks refuse to join!
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 10:47 am
Laughing

pause

Crying or Very sad
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 10:50 am
Momma Angel the problem is that if we table this until it's fixed it won't be in the front of peoples minds anymore. Hell by that time the new season of American Idol will be on. Are you forgetting who we're dealing with here? Ourselves.....
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 10:56 am
Nimh Wrote:

Quote:
There's a certain unintended, but brilliant irony in this sentence ... pretty much says it all.

One half of the country to the other: our leader brought this country together, its just you folks refuse to join!


Sarcasm noted. Not appreciated, but noted. You have your opinion, I have mine. End it here.

BBB,

Well, I guess that's as good an excuse as any.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 11:08 am
panzade wrote:
Soz, I just opened yahoo too...and fell out of my seat.


Ya okay there, Pan?
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 11:12 am
I suppose it could be said that those of us that point out what is wrong are giving aid and comfort to the victims.

Shame on us!
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 11:14 am
We need people to shore us up with feel good stories about acts of kindness AS WELL as people screaming from the rooftops about what's gone wrong.

In this way, we bring balance to the force.

Nanoo Nanoo.
0 Replies
 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 11:20 am
Quote:
We need people to shore us up with feel good stories about acts of kindness AS WELL as people screaming from the rooftops about what's gone wrong.


BPB, a genial conciliator. You're a complex and motivating man, Bear.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 12:01 pm
Squinney Wrote:

Quote:
I suppose it could be said that those of us that point out what is wrong are giving aid and comfort to the victims.

Shame on us!


Your sarcasm really takes away from your validity (IMO).

BBB Wrote:

Quote:
We need people to shore us up with feel good stories about acts of kindness AS WELL as people screaming from the rooftops about what's gone wrong.

In this way, we bring balance to the force.

Nanoo Nanoo.



BBB, now, that's a compromise I can certainly live with! WTG BBB!
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 12:02 pm
(And is different from what we've been saying all along... how?)
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 12:05 pm
Sozobe,

What's different is someone finally said, we need to do both. Not just saying we don't need to back off period. A fair balance IS what we need. We just don't have that now. In my opinion, of course.

If I misunderstood anyone else's posts as they were trying to offer the same compromise, then I apologize for not recognizing the fact.

I am all for compromise! Compromise means a positive change because both sides gain something!
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 12:15 pm
Actually we have been saying we need to do both from the beginning. It is just when we point out the failures, we get a couple of post about all the negativity in return.

So now we are all in agreement? It is ok to explore the problems as long as someone is around to give us a few feel good stories?
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 12:16 pm
My first post in this run:

sozobe wrote:
revel wrote:
However it does no good to bury our heads in the sand and ignore problems in the interest of keeping up a good cheer. We must explore our problems so that we can fix them.


Amen. This was Krugman's point in his column on the 2nd, I think, and I thoroughly agree with it.

I don't see this as zero-sum as some others. Love to see the heartwarming stories, the people helping, the good stuff happening. I have contributed to the Red Cross and am looking for ways to be helpful (beyond contributing, they are limited.) Simultaneously, serious mistakes were made, and I see it as my responsibility as a citizen to a) discover the nature of the mistakes, and b) hold those who made the mistakes accountable. To make the same point a third time, glossing over the significant mismanagement in the name of national unity or positivity or whatever just allows it to happen again. In that way, I think asking the tough questions and being willing to act on the results is itself one of the most productive things we can do.

(Edit: I wrote this immediately after seeing revel's statement, I see a lot of the same ground has been covered already.)
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 12:22 pm
Sozobe, Revel, and anyone else that had stated we do both and I didn't catch it,

I apologize. Yes, we are in agreement. As long as there is a balance of the good and bad then let it run! An equal expression of both views is more than fair. I guess I was guilty of seeing only my point of view at the time. Thanx for pointing this out to me, as these are the kinds of things that help me grow as a person.

So, what's next? Laughing

If anyone wants a bracelet to help the Katrina victims, pm me and I will tell you how to get one! Sorry, had to do that! Believe me, I hit up everybody I run across for help for the victims! It's in my blood I guess!

I do applaud everyone's contributions for the victims. Everything we do to help these people in turn will help our country. We must take care of our own and I am so proud to be an American and among others who do what they can to help their neighbor! God Bless You All!

Angel On!

Momma Angel
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 05:38 pm
Can I mention one thing that everyone seems to be forgetting.
Lets look at the sheer size of the disaster.
According to reports I have heard on both CNN and Fox news,approximately 90,000 square miles are affected by the hurricane and need assistance.
Lets compare that to other areas,ok.

The state of Oregon is 97,060 square miles, or 251,418 km.
That is from here...
http://www.el.com/to/oregon/facts/

Now,the United Kingdom is even smaller then that...
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/uk.html

Look at that website and you will see that the UK is
Area:
total: 244,820 sq km
land: 241,590 sq km
water: 3,230 sq km
note: includes Rockall and Shetland Islands
Area - comparative:
slightly smaller than Oregon

So,we have an area that is approx the same size as the UK that has been devastated by the hurricane,and people are complaining that everything wasnt done at once.
That makes no sense to me.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 06:02 pm
Mysterman,

Amen! Thank you!
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 07:29 pm
Speaking of Amen...

Be patient, the drowning are told:

Condoleezza Rice took an opportunity Sunday to tell the hurricane victims dying hourly in their homes that their prolonged suffering is God's will, not the government's fault, and to lecture them on the virtue of patience:

Asked to say a few words from the pulpit, Rice, a preacher's daughter, said: "The Lord Jesus Christ is going to come on time." She added: "If we just wait."

Earlier at the same church service "Rice nodded in agreement as the Rev. Malone Smith Jr. advised the congregation, "Wait for the Lord." Rev. Smith and Secretary Rice were playing on the words of a beloved gospel hymn that says, "He may not be there when you want him but he's right on time."

Source
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 07:36 pm
squinney wrote:
Speaking of Amen...

Be patient, the drowning are told:

Condoleezza Rice took an opportunity Sunday to tell the hurricane victims dying hourly in their homes that their prolonged suffering is God's will, not the government's fault, and to lecture them on the virtue of patience:

Asked to say a few words from the pulpit, Rice, a preacher's daughter, said: "The Lord Jesus Christ is going to come on time." She added: "If we just wait."

Earlier at the same church service "Rice nodded in agreement as the Rev. Malone Smith Jr. advised the congregation, "Wait for the Lord." Rev. Smith and Secretary Rice were playing on the words of a beloved gospel hymn that says, "He may not be there when you want him but he's right on time."

Source


Are parts of the above from other sources?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2005 07:41 pm
Must be Husker, because I don't see where any of this was in that article.

Where did she tell the drowning to be patient?

"Be patient, the drowning are told:

"Condoleezza Rice took an opportunity Sunday to tell the hurricane victims dying hourly in their homes that their prolonged suffering is God's will, not the government's fault, and to lecture them on the virtue of patience:

Asked to say a few words from the pulpit, Rice, a preacher's daughter, said: "The Lord Jesus Christ is going to come on time." She added: "If we just wait."

Earlier at the same church service "Rice nodded in agreement as the Rev. Malone Smith Jr. advised the congregation, "Wait for the Lord." Rev. Smith and Secretary Rice were playing on the words of a beloved gospel hymn that says, "He may not be there when you want him but he's right on time."

Where did that stuff come from?
0 Replies
 
 

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