DontTreadOnMe wrote:and what then do you call it when bush has the parents of a soldier killed in action at the state of the union and all ?? oh. wait, i get it. that's gin-yoo-wine care and respect with no agenda or manipulation. right? i said, right??
Now you're coming around.
DontTreadOnMe wrote:Tico wrote:As far as the shotgun totin' neighbor, he's got every right to hunt dove from his front porch as the next guy. That's legal in my county too ... though it'd be quail. :wink:
ahh, he was right out by the fence line.
Not against the law to hunt dove from your fence line 'neither.
Quote:quails good too. haven't had it since i was a kid. my wife turns green at the thought of game meat. bummer.
Gotta use a lot of salt.
dragon49 wrote:DontTreadOnMe wrote:dragon49 wrote:DTOM,
sorry i have been away so long...busy, busy, busy. i agree that if we were to have more stories about the good things happening over there, that many would believe it was propoganda from the administration. ..
no problema, d49.
maybe it would be seen as propaganda. but that hasn't stopped the bush administration from presenting other packages and epks.
that is what makes me skeptical of their assertions that "stuff is gettin' better".
either way, it certainly is worth a try, don't ya think ? :wink:
i would like to see it more. i know it's not all death and destruction over there like some media outlets make it out to be.
having lived in texas, the gun toting neighbor doesn't surprise me. plus it isn't like crawford is a heavily populated area, they guy probably just doesn't know what the hell to do since he isn't used to the noise (ridiculous to us, but probably not to him), so he did what he has always done, fired off a couple of rounds and everyone scatters.
i know what ya mean. but, ya know, i grew up in the country. both houses we lived in, if ya walked back past our property line, you were on a farm. and it was during a pretty rednecky time; during the vietnam war.
occassionally there'd be some yahoo that had no business pickin' up a shootin' iron that would act up, but most of us couldn't find a way to make excuses for him.
they may have been blocking his view (probably the first time he'd looked that direction in a while, i'd bet), but they weren't on his property.
another thing to consider. ya know that shot that's in shells ? well, what goes up must come down, right ?
too me, a gun is not a toy.
if you want to see more good news about iraq, don't blame the alledged liberal media. tell your congress people. tell bush. write him a letter and ask him why he isn't getting it out there.
he's the president. and after all, as he's mentioned before; "being president is power".
i promise i will view any thing they put out with an open mind. i will trust, but verify.
is that fair ?
Ticomaya wrote:DontTreadOnMe wrote:and what then do you call it when bush has the parents of a soldier killed in action at the state of the union and all ?? oh. wait, i get it. that's gin-yoo-wine care and respect with no agenda or manipulation. right? i said, right??
Now you're coming around.
DontTreadOnMe wrote:Tico wrote:As far as the shotgun totin' neighbor, he's got every right to hunt dove from his front porch as the next guy. That's legal in my county too ... though it'd be quail. :wink:
ahh, he was right out by the fence line.
Not against the law to hunt dove from your fence line 'neither.
depends on what
kind of dove yer shootin' at for one thing. and if the theoretical dove is on yer property or on the public land.
and no matter what, you shouldn't be messin' with guns and
.
nope, not comin' around.
but ya made me laff with the part about the salt (not that it would keep my wife from envisioning bugs bunny laying on a plate, all nicely battered and fried. although that would be a definitive "that's all folks "...), so i'll just let it pass. :wink:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:i promise i will view any thing they put out with an open mind. i will trust, but verify.
is that fair ?
absolutely. i would expect nothing less :wink:
and i wasn't defending that guy's actions, just trying to see it from his point of view, but if he's renting out space...screw him. bitch about something, then profit from exactly what you are bitching about? i guess he's making the best of the card he's been dealt, but that's about a 180 turn. (reminds of the people around here who move close to oceana naval air station and then bitch about the noise-screw you, the base was already there...if you don't like jet noise...buy a house somewhere else).
and tico i agree it doesn't sell papers. so what does that say about us as americans that all we are willing to buy is the bad stuff? ahh, i guess i am just the little naive girl from virginia. but damn, doesn't anyone out there have good news?
dragon49 wrote:and tico i agree it doesn't sell papers. so what does that say about us as americans that all we are willing to buy is the bad stuff? ahh, i guess i am just the little naive girl from virginia.
Actually I do think it sells, just not as well as the juicy stuff. Always been that way, and it's not just the case with Americans. Everybody rubbernecks driving by a car wreck.
Quote:but damn, doesn't anyone out there have good news?
Sure ... try
HERE and very rarely
HERE.
dragon, It isn't hard to find "good news from Iraq" if you go to any of the search engines. Here's one I found by typing "good news from Iraq."
http://unix.dfn.org/good_news_iraq.shtml
thanks tico and ci. i guess i was referring more to the likes of foxnews and cnn. but trust me, these will do! at least they show what we have done over there.
Ode To Cindy Sheehan
Ode To Cindy Sheehan
By Madeleine Begun Kane
The mother of a soldier dead
Has Dubya running scared.
Her very name fills Bush with dread.
Face Sheehan? Dub don't dare.
She's camped outside Dub's pseudo-ranch,
In Crawford's daunting heat.
Her mission's clear: She will not leave
Till she and Dubya meet.
An inspiration to us all,
This gal has guts to spare.
She speaks out for the troops that fall,
While Bush hides in his lair.
She needs to find a reason why
Her son's alive no more.
Like many, she just doesn't buy
Dub's reasons for this war.
Thursday, August 11, 2005
Mother's peace vigil gains support
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER STAFF AND NEWS SERVICES
The mother of a fallen U.S. soldier who started a quiet roadside peace vigil near President Bush's ranch last weekend is drawing supporters from across the nation, including the Pacific Northwest.
Dozens of people have joined her in Crawford, Texas, while others have sent flowers and food. One activist called her "the Rosa Parks of the anti-war movement."
Cindy Sheehan, 48, of Vacaville, Calif., says she was surprised at the response.
AP
Cindy Sheehan, right, gets a hug from fellow protester Bill Mitchell as he delivers flowers sent to the roadside camp in Crawford, Texas.
"Before my son was killed, I used to think that one person could not make a difference," she said Wednesday under a tent where she has slept since Saturday. "But one person that is surrounded and supported by millions of people can be heard."
Lietta Ruger is one of those supporters. The mother from Bay Center near Longview arrived Wednesday in Crawford.
"We're all Cindy Sheehan," said Ruger, who plans to stay at the makeshift encampment until Monday.
"When I left Seattle yesterday my 5-year-old grandson said, 'Grandma's going to talk to the president so Daddy doesn't have to go away again,' " said Ruger, whose son-in-law and nephew have already served in Iraq.
About 30 people gathered at the Jackson Federal Building in downtown Seattle Wednesday evening to support Sheehan's demand to speak with Bush and to protest the war.
"This mother has called (Bush) on (his reason for going to war) and we need to support her," said protest organizer Judith Shattuck, a member of Progressive Democrats for America.
That organization called for solidarity protests nationwide on the eve of when it thinks Sheehan will be removed from her roadside vigil, Shattuck said.
Teri Barclay, a Duvall mother who works in Seattle, said her son served two tours with the Marines in Iraq before he was discharged in September 2004.
She's been against the war from the beginning but has grown increasingly angry that U.S. troops have not had the equipment and supplies they need to protect themselves, and that the Department of Veterans Affairs has not had the money to properly help them when they return home.
Barclay was especially upset that Bush has gone on vacation while the nation is at war and men like her son are dying in Iraq.
"Our sons have sacrificed a lot, and where is his sacrifice? Where is his support?" Barclay asked.
Sheehan's support includes a caravan of people who left Wednesday from Houston to join her roadside encampment near Waco. And some Swedes have even donated portable toilets that were set up outside the Peace House in Crawford, which is run by liberal activists.
Jennifer Lincoln's sign expresses her feelings in front of the federal building in Seattle. Lincoln's sister is in the military.
Although a few Crawford residents have complained about the protesters, no one has been arrested because the group has been on the public right of way, said Capt. Kenneth Vanek of the McLennan County Sheriff's Office.
The protest is expected to grow today as Bush meets at his ranch with his top foreign policy advisers, including Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, to discuss Iraq and other issues.
On Saturday, two high-level Bush administration officials, the national security adviser and deputy White House chief of staff, talked to Sheehan for about 20 minutes.
Sheehan called the brief meeting "pointless" and still wants to talk to the president.
Sheehan's 24-year-old son, Casey, was killed in Sadr City, Iraq, in April 2004 just five days after he arrived. Two months later, Sheehan was among grieving military family members who met with Bush at Fort Lewis.
Since then, she said, various government and independent commission reports have disputed the Bush administration's claims that Saddam Hussein had mass-killing chemical and biological weapons -- a main justification for the March 2003 invasion.
On Wednesday, a coalition of anti-war groups called on Bush to speak with Sheehan, who they say has helped to unify the peace movement.
"Cindy Sheehan has become the Rosa Parks of the anti-war movement," said the Rev. Lennox Yearwood, leader of the Hip Hop Caucus, an activist group. "She's tired, fed up and she's not going to take it anymore, and so now we stand with her."
Some veterans and relatives of those killed have called Sheehan's vigil a distraction and continue to support the U.S. military action in Iraq.
Kathy Brooks, a counselor who ate at the Crawford Coffee Station on Wednesday, said that she understood Sheehan's grief but that the president is not to blame.
"The president did not make her son go," Brooks said. "He did have a choice."
Sheehan, whose vigil has also become a hot topic on the Internet and blogs, says she doesn't expect Bush to meet with her in Crawford.
If he did she would ask him whether he has encouraged his twin daughters to enlist.
"I want him to quit using my son's death to justify more killing," she said. "The only way he can honor my son's death is to bring the troops home."
P-I reporters Susan Paynter and Jake Ellison contributed to this story, which includes information from The Associated Press and the Houston Chronicle.
Comment: For all those that support this war, why aren't you demanding that our troops be properly equipped and provided with the proper medical care upon their return home with physical and mental injuries? This government is failing our troops.
Almost forgot to post this on this thread. I think I've got 'em all covered now.
From Drudge ....
The Drudge Report wrote:CINDY UNLEASHED: "THE BIGGEST TERRORIST IN THE WORLD IS GEORGE W. BUSH"
Wed Aug 17 2005 21:51:56 ET
"We are not waging a war on terror in this country. We're waging a war of terror. The biggest terrorist in the world is George W. Bush!"
So declared Cindy Sheehan earlier this year during a rally at San Francisco State University.
Sheehan, who is demanding a second meeting with Bush, stated: "We are waging a nuclear war in Iraq right now. That country is contaminated. It will be contaminated for practically eternity now."
Sheehan unleashed a foul-mouth tirade on April 27, 2005:
"They're a bunch of ******* hypocrites! And we need to, we just need to rise up..." Sheehan said of the Bush administration.
"If George Bush believes his rhetoric and his bullshit, that this is a war for freedom and democracy, that he is spreading freedom and democracy, does he think every person he kills makes Iraq more free?"
"The whole world is damaged. Our humanity is damaged. If he thinks that it's so important for Iraq to have a U.S.-imposed sense of freedom and democracy, then he needs to sign up his two little party-animal girls. They need to go to this war."
"We want our country back and, if we have to impeach everybody from George Bush down to the person who picks up dog **** in Washington, we will impeach all those people."
END
Here's the full transcript from her tirade against Bush at that rally earlier this year:
Quote:Cindy Sheehan (Military Families Speak Out; Goldstar Families for Peace; her son Casey was killed in the Iraq War)
First, I want to give my little story about Lynne. Of course, you all have read To Kill a Mockingbird. Lynne is my human Atticus Finch. He did what he knew was right, but wasn't popular. And that's what Lynne is doing. {applause}
We are not waging a war on terror in this country. We're waging a war of terror. The biggest terrorist in the world is George W. Bush. {applause}
How many more people are we going to let him kill before we stop him? I'm going to talk about free speech and recruitment. Do you know that it costs $66,000 to recruit one recruit? That's continuing all of their - you know, the recruiter's salary, the recruiter's bonus, the place that they rent to recruit and things like that. All the perks they get and everything. That's not even training the recruit. It costs our government about $6,000 a year on each child in California. $46,000 a year to house a prisoner in our state. Our priorities are seriously screwed up, as I mentioned.
I really want to thank you guys for doing this, especially the young people. It gives me so much hope to know that there's young people who care more about who's our next American Idol - less about that. You guys care more about people being killed. There's too many that care more about the next American Idol. Too many people in our country that don't even really know we have a war going on. You know, they never have to think of the war, and I'll never, ever forget this war. I can never forget it, even when I'm sleeping {tears} I know that we're in a war and I know that George Bush and his band of neo-cons and their neo-con agenda killed my son. And I'll never, ever, ever forget.
I take responsibility partly for my son's death, too. I was raised in a country by a public school system that taught us that America was good, that America was just. America has been killing people, like my sister over here says, since we first stepped on this continent, we have been responsible for death and destruction. I passed on that bullshit to my son and my son enlisted. I'm going all over the country telling moms: "This country is not worth dying for. If we're attacked, we would all go out. We'd all take whatever we had. I'd take my rolling pin and I'd beat the attackers over the head with it. But we were not attacked by Iraq. {applause} We might not even have been attacked by Osama bin Laden if {applause}. 9/11 was their Pearl Harbor to get their neo-con agenda through and, if I would have known that before my son was killed, I would have taken him to Canada. I would never have let him go and try and defend this morally repugnant system we have. The people are good, the system is morally repugnant. {applause}
Please - teach your babies, teach your babies better than I taught my babies. When Congress gave George Bush the right to go to war, they abrogated their constitutional responsibilities and they basically made our constitution null and void. We have no checks and balances in this country. We have no recourse. If they're going to what they did to Lynne, they don't have backs they call names, what we need to be is, we the people, we're their checks and balances. We're the only checks and balances. We have to stand up and say, Not only is this our school, this is our country. We want our country back and, if we have to impeach everybody from George Bush down to the person who picks up dog **** in Washington, we will impeach all those people. Our country needs to {unintelligible} we need to start over again.
I just want to say that you students, Students Against War, you have all my support and all my organization's support. I told Kristen if you have any actions and you need a ringleader, that I only live about an hour away. I'll be here. If I can sleep on somebody's floor, we can have this, we can camp out, do whatever we need.
And I just want to way to George Bush and I want to say to the people who are here, that are still sheep {unintelligible} and following him blindly: if George Bush believes his rhetoric and his bullshit, that this is a war for freedom and democracy, that he is spreading freedom and democracy, does he think every person he kills makes Iraq more free? It doesn't make us more free. It damages our humanity. The whole world is damaged. Our humanity is damaged. If he thinks that it's so important for Iraq to have a U.S.-imposed sense of freedom and democracy, then he needs to sign up his two little party-animal girls. They need to go this war. They need to fight because a just war, the definition of a just war, and maybe you people here who still think this is a just war, the definition of a just war is one that you would send your own children to die in. That you would go die in yourself. And you aren't willing to send your own children, or if you're not willing to go die yourself, then you bring there rest of our kids home now. It is despicable what they're doing. {applause}
What they're saying, too, is like, it's okay for Israel to have nuclear weapons. But Iran or Syria better not get nuclear weapons. It's okay for the United States to have nuclear weapons. It's okay for the countries that we say it's okay for. We are waging a nuclear war in Iraq right now. That country is contaminated. It will be contaminated for practically eternity now. It's okay for them to have them, but Iran or Syria can't have them. It's okay for Israel to occupy Palestine, but it's - yeah - and it's okay for Iraq to occupy - I mean, for the United States to occupy Iraq, but it's not okay for Syria to be in Lebanon. They're a bunch of ******* hypocrites! And we need to, we just need to rise up. We need a revolution and make it be peaceful and make it be loving and let's just show them all the love we have for humanity because we want to stop the inhumane slaughter.
{wild applause}
The "tirade" that started all this is Bush and his administration's exaggeration of WMDs and Saddam's connection to al Qaeda - challenging the American People to "back them up" for war. What Sheehan is doing is a peaceful demonstration of her democratic rights to peacefully demonstrate. Comparing this administration's tirade against the American People and the peaceful demonstration by Sheehan is ridiculous.
Well, both sides are kind of predictably deflecting the core issue. Someone lost her son, and opposes the war, and is speaking out.
Now she has to call Bush a terrorist (which makes her look foolish), and the right has trivialized every aspect of her personl life and her message.
She's pissed, so let her be pissed.
Her message is being heard loud and clear--and it needs to be heard. Don't deny the fact that more than 1/2 of the US is siding with her and not Bush...regardless of any amount of deflection.
Moral Authority
Gary Hart
08.18.2005
Moral Authority
In the late 1980s the most respected leaders in the world -- Nelson Mandela, Vaclav Havel, Lech Walesa (and earlier Martin Luther King) -- all had one thing in common. They had spent time in jail. More important, they had spent time in jail for their beliefs, beliefs that threatened the power structures of their countries. It seems strange that many Americans idolize protesters in other countries and ridicule them at home.
Equally strange is the tendency of conservatives to revere the protesters of early times -- Tom Paine, the Bostonians who painted themselves like Indians and threw tea in Boston harbor, even the abolitionist John Brown -- and vilify those who protest today. Someone once said that conservatives are the worshipers of dead radicals.
Nevertheless, there is a rich history of protest in America, by laborers, by women, by war opponents, by environmentalists, by African Americans, and in almost every case the protests changed American ideas and policies for the better. Protesters make us think, that is those inclined to think. They stir things up, they rock the boat, they challenge the status quo and the conventional wisdom. They force us to look at reality often in painful ways. Protesters sometimes get themselves thrown in jail.
It is a great wonder that war opponents, including increasing numbers of Democratic "leaders," are so silent. Some of the most visible simply believe the invasion of Iraq, which they endorsed, has been mismanaged, that more troops (not fewer) are needed! Even today, they seem untroubled by the false statements and manipulated intelligence of the administration. The most difficult political statement in the English language is: I made a mistake.
Speaking only for myself, I will find it very difficult to support any Democratic "leader" who remains silent at this critical moment but who wants to be president in 2008. There are defining moments in political careers and in national life where true character is revealed, where moral authority is achieved, or forfeited. Recall Dante's well-known warning that a special place is reserved in hell for those who, in times of moral crisis, preserve their neutrality.
There are those who earn their moral authority the hard way, by going to jail or, like Cindy Sheehan, by sacrificing a loved one. Such people do not merely earn an audience with the president.
Such people deserve an accounting.
Bush is lucky half the country isn't at his doorstep, Half the world for that matter. It's time to step it up a notch. The truth is out. The liers are hiding. If the president was confident and believed in what he has created he would speak.
Amigo, And you would believe what comes out of his mouth? LOL
I didn't think about that.
BBB, That's a very good article by Gary Hart. I'm glad to see that some people in this country still believes in peaceful demonstrations to make more people aware of what our country needs to do to improve it. Those who try to hush Ms Sheehan doesn't understand what democracy is all about. They want to hush the voices that they disagree with. If the mother's son sacrificed for this country, what makes the neocons think she's not practicing Americanism at it's finest?
Gary Hart's mention of the democrats who are not speaking out will not get my vote in 2008.
Speaking of demonstrations. I'll be in Washington, D.C. Sept.24. This could be the big one. The White house. Pennsylvania Ave. March permits secured. I'll be the guy holding the sign running from the police. I AM NOT the guy in the ski mask in thr 'che' shirt.
Amigo wrote:Speaking of demonstrations. I'll be in Washington, D.C. Sept.24. This could be the big one. The White house. Pennsylvania Ave. March permits secured. I'll be the guy holding the sign running from the police. I AM NOT the guy in the ski mask in thr 'che' shirt.
With each post...I gain new admiration for you Amigo.
Not sure why we got off to such a bad start (probably because I'm such a mouthy bastard)...but I want you to know that despite the fact that I have not always taken time to acknowledge you, some of your recent posts have been gems.
Actually going into Washington to protest is big time!
My thanks and admiration are with you.
