10
   

Let’s chat about the atheist religion.

 
 
NealNealNeal
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 4 Jul, 2020 03:59 pm
@Sturgis,
Max likes the "social gospel"
I want all people saved
The gospel is the Truth
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Jul, 2020 04:12 pm
@NealNealNeal,
so are penis enlarging pills.
0 Replies
 
NealNealNeal
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 4 Jul, 2020 07:27 pm
@NealNealNeal,
I owe a lot to God To God be the glory!!!
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 4 Jul, 2020 08:34 pm
If you are going to claim to be a Christian, then you should follow the words and deeds Jesus. You should follow them in context and in their entirety. What you two are doing is living the way you want to live, and then you are picking and choosing passages out of context to make Jesus conform to your ideas.

The modern American version of Christianity is backward. Instead of letting Jesus change your life and living according to your words, you are starting with a made up ideology and then picking and choosing passages. You are making Jesus conform to your ideas rather than the other way around.

I have read the Bible. I may have studied the Bible more than anyone else here (I was studying to be in the evangelical Christian ministry many years ago). If you honestly read the bible you will find....

1. Jesus favored the poor over the rich in story after story. Jesus himself was born into a Roman territory in a community that had no rights. Jesus was not a Roman citizen and cared little about Roman concerns.

2. Fake Christians favor citizens over non-citizens. They favor the rich over the poor. They are worried about Rome (or America) rather than worried about the people.

3. Jesus was constantly criticized because he cared about people over the law. He spoke about having "mercy over sacrifice". He told stories about compassion and commanded forgiveness. He said that Christians are to be judged for the the way they treat refugees and poor people and people in prison.

4. Fake Christians care about politics over people and law over compassion. They make excuses about why they can't help people in need, or listen to the problems of poor and minority communities. They put laws over the call for compassion or mercy.

5. Jesus was most critical of religious people. There are entire passages where he calls religious hypocrites as "brood of vipers" and says outright they will burn in hell. Jesus' anger was not toward sinners or lawbreakers. These were the people that Jesus hung out with. Jesus hated religious hypocrites

6. Fake Christians are the religious hypocrites. This thread has pages and pages of empty religious blather. Oh great! you are saved, they are not. It is all so great that you are so surrendered to Jesus. This is just bullshit.

Where is the love? Where is the compassion? Where is any evidence that Jesus has changed your heart to the rest of God's children without judging them? All I see from the people who claim to be Christians on this thread is empty religion, judgement and hatred.

Jesus wrote:
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Jasper10
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 4 Jul, 2020 09:49 pm
@maxdancona,
Which bit of what I wrote don’t you like? Jesus died for all sins rich and poor.The gospel is clear and is for everyone.The gospel is black and white not grey and confusing.If you are trying to earn your way into heaven you have missed the point of Jesus teachings and saying his sacrifice was for nothing.Surely you are not saying this are you?
NealNealNeal
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 4 Jul, 2020 09:54 pm
@maxdancona,
You make good points. However, you ignore Jesus' words to people who are looking for free stuff. For example, look at the end of John 6. Jesus tells the crowd that there is something more important than free food. He tells them to seek Spiritual "food".
Did you notice that Jesus refused to feed them again? That is because there was something far more important than feeding them food.
Personal responsibility is extremely important to Jesus. It is time for you to realize that.
I have been extremely patient with you. Please take the log out of your OWN eye before judging Christians.
NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Reply Sat 4 Jul, 2020 10:11 pm
@NealNealNeal,
One more thing Max. I (and you) have absolutely no right to demand that God do anything for us. I am grateful to God for what He has done for me He has every right to send me to hell No matter what TO GOD BE THE GLORY!!!!!
NealNealNeal
 
  0  
Reply Sat 4 Jul, 2020 11:11 pm
@NealNealNeal,
We still have a great nation. To God be the glory.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 4 Jul, 2020 11:36 pm
@NealNealNeal,
You are being a Hypocrite, Neal. You are twisting Jesus' words to fit your politics. A real Christian would listen to what Jesus said and did in context without explaining it away or making excuses.

Jesus wrote:
“But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.

“If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 3nd if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.


Jesus wrote:
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 4 Jul, 2020 11:42 pm
@NealNealNeal,
A fake Christian starts with a political ideology and then twists quotes from the Bible out of context to make Jesus say that he is right.

A true Christian looks at the actual words and deeds of Jesus and humbly tries to do them. Jesus' words are clear, they don't need to be explained away or interpreted. When Jesus says "do not resist an evil man" he means "do not resist an evil man". When Jesus says "care for the stranger" he means "care for the stranger". When Jesus says "I desire mercy rather than sacrifice" he means "I desire mercy rather than sacrifice".

There is nothing in your posts that show any compassion or humility or love. You are White American political conservative who acts like a White American political Conservative.

It is political religious blather with no substance and none of the fruits of the Spirit.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 4 Jul, 2020 11:44 pm
@NealNealNeal,
NealNealNeal wrote:

We still have a great nation. To God be the glory.


The Biblical Jesus didn't say that Rome was a great nation. What makes you think that he would give a **** about our nation?

I hope you realize that Jesus was not American and that his situation in the Bible would have been more like a working class person living Guatemala.

I respect America for the ideals of freedom and equality. But these are two ideals that have never been part of the Bible (you can find the word "freedom" in the Bible, but it is never talking about the political freedom we have here).

I see nothing in the Bible to make me think that Jesus would be at all impressed with America.



0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2020 07:00 am
The myth of Jesus as a symbol of American Patriotism is just weird. There is nothing in Bible to suggest that Jesus would find America superior in any way to any other country. The Bible doesn't mention borders or honoring the military or pledging allegiance to the flag.

The Bible doesn't mention political liberty (i.e. free speech or freedom from regulation or taxes). The only reference in the Bible even close democracy resulted in God's killing hundreds of conspirators for rebellion against the leadership.

And, think about this. No true Christian would have supported or joined the American Revolution at the time. In the Bible, all leaders are considered ordained by God and rebelling against the King is specifically forbidden.

The Bible says clearly "He who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted." How would a Bible believing Christian possibly justify joining the American Revolution which was exactly what the Bible forbids.

Quote:
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.

Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.


0 Replies
 
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2020 07:13 am
@Jasper10,
You can’t earn yourself into heaven.PERIOD.Forget it and move on.Don’t let Jesus say to you..Away from me I never new you.Believing that you can earn your salvation is mocking the work that Jesus did on the cross.It’s the reason he came and did what he did here on earth.He wasn’t just a good example of how to live your life, he was here doing a deeply mysterious and unseen battle of proving to the devil that no matter what he could throw at him he wouldn’t sin.The world sees weakness at the cross the devil doesn’t.The devil knows he was utterly defeated that day.Do you know this or are you still letting the devil play you? Jesus offers to but the sacrifice he made to your personal account.Have you looked at your statement recently.Many are still in debt and will need to pay up the account in full with infinite interest that they will be unable to pay.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2020 07:17 am
@Jasper10,
Jesus says pretty clearly in several places (Matthew 7, Matthew 25) that if mistreat immigrants, the poor and prisoners then "accepting Jesus" doesn't do you any good.

People who believe they are Christians will still go to Hell because they didn't follow Jesus and treat people with compassion.

Jesus wrote:
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2020 07:45 am
@maxdancona,
I don’t understand what you are saying.Are you saying that if anyone sins then they should still be allowed into heaven and God should just forget any wrong doings they have done as long as they serve a spell in the naughty boys/ girls prison (purgatory) to reflect on the sins they have done.Do you honestly think that this is the answer? You clearly have seriously underestimated the price that had to be paid for sin.Jesus said to the thief on the cross ..today you will be with me in paradise because he knew the mans heart was genuine ...and he was merciful to him .....NOT...one day you may be with me in paradise after a stint in purgatory.Its about having a genuine heart and acknowledging to God that you know that you can’t do enough to earn your way into heaven and therefore you humbly need him to take the full punishment for your OWN personal sins.Are you too proud to do this?
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2020 08:01 am
@Jasper10,
Did you read what Jesus said on the topic? I quoted Jesus in my last post.

It is pretty clear to me, if you don't show compassion for immigrants, and the poor, and people in prison, then you won't go to heaven. This isn't "earning" anything. But, you can't mistreat immigrants and poor people and then rely on the cross to magically get you in.

Jesis wrote:
“Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? As for everyone who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice, I will show you what they are like. They are like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete.”


If you are going to claim to be a Christian, then follow the Bible. If you are going to ignore what Jesus actually said... then what is the point?

Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2020 08:39 am
@maxdancona,
Of course one has to show compassion to these people by pointing them to the cross and what it truly means.i.e. that they will never enter heaven by their own efforts/works.... it is IMPOSSIBLE.This was the WHOLE point of Jesus ministry.I do tell people that Jesus hung on the cross and took the full punishments for their sins.I can’t make people believe this though can I...
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2020 08:58 am
@Jasper10,
No you can’t, and I’ve heard as impassioned speech from those in other religions too.

The problem with religion is that the nastiest and cruellest people I’ve known have all been religious, and I suspect my experience is far from unique.

May “Christians” put themselves in an ideological bubble where they’re very decent to those like them, but treat the rest of us with contempt.

They have more in common with the Scribes and Pharisees who gave Jesus such a hard time.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2020 09:24 am
@Jasper10,
Have you read the Bible?

You are focused on a couple of versus, and ignoring the actual words and deeds of Jesus. Read the whole story to see the life and words of Jesus rather than picking out the versus that tell you that you are perfectly OK without making any effort to follow Jesus.

Jesus healed people. Jesus fed people. Jesus upset upstanding religious people by spending time with people that you would have felt should be despised. In Jesus' time this was "tax collectors and sinners", in modern time this would be "illegals" and "thugs". Jesus upset people by breaking the law to help others.

Jesus commanded his disciples to follow him, to sell their belongings and give to the poor. He taught about forgiveness and compassion and sacrifice and love for enemies and taking in the stranger.

It is like you are saying "Yippee, I am saved! Now I can just act like a self-righteous prick without caring for the people that are rejected by society". Read the Bible, that wasn't what Jesus' message was about.

If you are going to ignore the actual words and deeds of Jesus, than what's the point of being a Christian.






Jasper10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2020 09:45 am
@izzythepush,
You are right Jesus biggest enemies were the blind religious bigots of the day who thought they could earn their entitlement to heaven by their religious works.They never recognised who Jesus was at all.Their true nature was just as Jesus described ...blind; hypocritical ....and dead within.Blind guides who never entered God’s peace and prevented other from entering it to because of their false teachings.
 

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