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God given rights. Do you really have any?

 
 
Reply Sat 16 May, 2020 08:07 am
God given rights. Do you really have any?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

When a right is given to us by governments, they assume and have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. If governments do not accept and do this enforcement duty, then citizens have a corrupted government.

If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us. The fact that they often are, indicates that he is shirking his duty.

To me, rights are like laws, completely useless and worthless unless they can be enforced by a given power when they are breached.

Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none?

Regards
DL
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Type: Question • Score: 0 • Views: 1,066 • Replies: 20
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maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 May, 2020 08:50 am
@Greatest I am,
If there is a God, then He has the ability to give rights. What is the point of being divine if you can't bestow rights on your subjects?

God doesn't need to enforce them. He defines them; it is part of defining the difference between Good and Evil. It is up to humans to decide whether to follow or not.

mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 May, 2020 12:44 pm
@Greatest I am,
You have NO rights, other than those assumed or imposed.
Do as thou wilt (Crowley) - Also demonised.
Yes - He tried to invoke the most prevalent demonic forces - BUT, Only to banish them into oblivion.
A story less told.

Have a Lovely Day
papag
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2021 04:47 am
@Greatest I am,
When God created humans He gave them something animals don't have, freewill. Our God given rights is that we can make choices. We can abuse it by making bad choices or we can enjoy it by making wise choices.
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2021 01:31 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

If there is a God, then He has the ability to give rights. What is the point of being divine if you can't bestow rights on your subjects?

God doesn't need to enforce them. He defines them; it is part of defining the difference between Good and Evil. It is up to humans to decide whether to follow or not.




Good and evil are moral judgements, not a right of any kind.

What makes you think Yahweh has any abilities at all? He is absentee so how can you know?

Rights, without enforcement, are non-existing.

What right do you see Yahweh defining?

Regards
DL
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2021 01:34 pm
@mark noble,
mark noble wrote:

You have NO rights, other than those assumed or imposed.
Do as thou wilt (Crowley) - Also demonised.
Yes - He tried to invoke the most prevalent demonic forces - BUT, Only to banish them into oblivion.
A story less told.

Have a Lovely Day


No oblivion.

Our vile mainstream religions still exist.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2021 01:35 pm
@papag,
papag wrote:

When God created humans He gave them something animals don't have, freewill. Our God given rights is that we can make choices. We can abuse it by making bad choices or we can enjoy it by making wise choices.


Wise to who? Ourselves or a genocidal and infanticidal Yahweh?

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2021 01:37 pm
@papag,
papag wrote:

When God created humans He gave them something animals don't have, freewill. Our God given rights is that we can make choices. We can abuse it by making bad choices or we can enjoy it by making wise choices.


What are your thoughts on a stupid Yahweh who, created Adam without a mate, and seemed to have though of Eve as an afterthought.

That was really dumb. Right?

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2021 05:07 pm
@Greatest I am,
I'm not interested I am not interested in playing word games. I was speaking specifically about moral judgments not about a law to be enforced.

Any absolute moral standard requires a deity. Yahweh will do just fine in that respect.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 May, 2021 04:14 am
@Greatest I am,
Quote:
Do you really have any?

No.
Quote:
We hold these truths to be self-evident...

This is just a rationalization for political violence.
Quote:
If a right is given to a soul, by god, he would have a duty to ensure that they are never taken from us.

God doesn't have any "duties". Duty presumes a moral law more powerful than the god which compels the god to do things? — I don't think so.
Quote:
To me, rights are like laws, completely useless and worthless unless they can be enforced by a given power when they are breached.

They're arbitrary codifications that can be withdrawn or reinterpreted at any time.
Quote:
Do you have any real god given rights, or are god given rights just a feel-good lie that we tell ourselves we have so as to ignore that we have none?

We have real god given rights but, as with gods, they only exist within our minds. In real life people will do as they wish and authorities will respond as they wish. "Rights" don't really exist beyond the practical sense of temporary freedoms that may be exercised or withdrawn.

Rusty Cohle wrote:
I think human consciousness, is a tragic misstep in evolution. We became too self-aware, nature created an aspect of nature separate from itself, we are creatures that should not exist by natural law. We are things that labor under the illusion of having a self; an accretion of sensory, experience and feeling, programmed with total assurance that we are each somebody, when in fact everybody is nobody. Maybe the honorable thing for our species to do is deny our programming, stop reproducing, walk hand in hand into extinction, one last midnight - brothers and sisters opting out of a raw deal.
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 May, 2021 01:41 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I'm not interested I am not interested in playing word games. I was speaking specifically about moral judgments not about a law to be enforced.

Any absolute moral standard requires a deity. Yahweh will do just fine in that respect.


Why do you favor a genocidal, infanticidal, homophobic and misogynous judge?

Do you not love even your own family?

Regards
DL
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 May, 2021 02:43 pm
@Greatest I am,
Where did you get the word "favor"???

If you want an absolute moral standard you need a deity. I never said anything to suggest I think this is a good idea. At least I don't think I did.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Mon 24 May, 2021 05:55 pm
@papag,
papag wrote:

When God created humans He gave them something animals don't have, freewill. Our God given rights is that we can make choices. We can abuse it by making bad choices or we can enjoy it by making wise choices.


Freewill? so you never been around cats!!!!!
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2021 04:18 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Where did you get the word "favor"???

If you want an absolute moral standard you need a deity. I never said anything to suggest I think this is a good idea. At least I don't think I did.


It is English. You favored Yahweh.

Why would you want to go to a genocidal god for good morals?

Do you see such a homophobic, misogynous and mass murdering Yahweh as a good source of morals?

Why do so far back in history with Hitler so fresh in our minds?

They share the same moral stance. Right?

Regards
DL
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2021 04:29 pm
@Greatest I am,
This isn't that complicated. Let me walk you through it slowly.

1) I propose that any absolute system of morality must be based on a deity (the key word here is "absolute").

2) In a system of morality that is based on a deity, then by definition... it is the deity and the deity alone that decides what is moral or imoral. (this is by definition, it is important you understand this point).

3) If in an absolute system of morality, genocide is a moral act (based on whatever circumstances are attached in the system of morality).

4) Sure, you are correct. If you have an absolute system of morality based on a genocidal god, then genocide will be a moral act. That is because the genocidal god is the standard by which we measure morality.

Do you understand this?

Now hear this. Nowhere have I said that I favor any absolute system or morality. I am simply positing that you can not have an absolute morality based on anything less arbitrary than a deity.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 May, 2021 04:38 pm
I am personally against genocide. I would prefer to live in a world without genocide. My personal moral standard prohibits genocide.

But any moral standard is arbitrary. There is no universal principle that says that genocide is wrong. I am impacted by my society and my upbringing (which ironically has been largely shaped by Christianity as part of Western culture). That is why I am against genocide.

Nature is very happy to commit genocide... whole species were wiped out long before humans came around, and very often one genetic variant will outhunt and outkill another.

The point is that there is no absolute moral principle. We abhor genocide based on our cultural values, our societal beliefs which shape our personal choices. It is part of an arbitrary set of moral beliefs.
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 May, 2021 08:34 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I am personally against genocide. I would prefer to live in a world without genocide. My personal moral standard prohibits genocide.

But any moral standard is arbitrary. There is no universal principle that says that genocide is wrong. I am impacted by my society and my upbringing (which ironically has been largely shaped by Christianity as part of Western culture). That is why I am against genocide.

Nature is very happy to commit genocide... whole species were wiped out long before humans came around, and very often one genetic variant will outhunt and outkill another.

The point is that there is no absolute moral principle. We abhor genocide based on our cultural values, our societal beliefs which shape our personal choices. It is part of an arbitrary set of moral beliefs.



There is a universal moral tenet that says, given the power, it is always better to cure than kill.

That is likely there only objective moral tenet I can think of.

All else is subjective.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 21 Jul, 2021 02:59 am
@Greatest I am,
Jude 1: 14; Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying; “Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousand of his saints, (15) To execute judgement on all, and convince all that are ungodly among them all of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

Because of your absolute ignorance to the truths that are revealed in the scriptures, if you repent of all the wicked accusation against He (THE SON OF MAN) who pays the penalty for the sins of the flesh in which he developed, you just might be forgiven
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jul, 2021 05:54 pm
@The Anointed,
The Anointed wrote:

Jude 1: 14; Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying; “Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousand of his saints, (15) To execute judgement on all, and convince all that are ungodly among them all of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”

Because of your absolute ignorance to the truths that are revealed in the scriptures, if you repent of all the wicked accusation against He (THE SON OF MAN) who pays the penalty for the sins of the flesh in which he developed, you just might be forgiven


I may be absolutely ignorant of your truth, but I know morals, while you call evil good.

Care to debate the vile morals you follow on Jesus as your scapegoat.

On Jesus dying for Christians. Try to think in a moral way.

It takes quite an inflated ego to think a god would actually die for us, after condemning us unjustly in the first place.

Christians have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil they make Jesus to keep their feel good get out of hell free card.

It is a lie, first and foremost, because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

Christians also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

There is no way that Christians would teach their children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are promoting doing just that.

Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fiber as Yahweh. Tsk tsk.

Regards
DL

The Anointed
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 31 Jul, 2021 09:29 pm
@Greatest I am,
GAI wrote ….. I may be absolutely ignorant of your truth, but I know morals, while you call evil good.

The Anointed Responds ….. Well, you certainly are an absolute biblical ignoramus, who is ignorant to the truths as revealed in scripture, as will be proven. Although it may take a few posts to cover all your childish and ignorant beliefs.

GAI wrote ….. Care to debate the vile morals you follow on Jesus as your scapegoat.

The Anointed Responds ….. Jesus is not my scapegoat my child, have you never actually studied the scriptures rather than simply glance at them now and then? Leviticus 16: 20-21; “When Aaron has finished performing the ritual to purify the Most Holy Place, the rest of the Tent of the LORD's presence, and the altar, he shall present to the LORD the live goat chosen for ‘AZAZEL’. (SEE 16: 8) He shall put both his hands on the goat's head and confess over it all the evils, sins, and rebellions of the people of Israel, and so transfer them to the goat's head. Then the goat is to be driven off into the desert by someone appointed to do it.”

Do you know who Azazel, is my child? No? Neither do the theologians of the Roman church and her daughter denominations, as seen in the margins of Leviticus 16, in the Good News Catholic Study Edition of their bible, where it is written; “16.20; 16.8 AZAZEL: The meaning of this Hebrew name is unknown; it may be the name of a desert demon.”

So now, let me reveal to you, just who my scapegoat ‘AZAZEL’ is.

Although Jesus and his disciples taught from the words of Righteous Enoch, which books were cherished by the earlier followers of Jesus, right up until the fourth century, when, they were banned by such dogmatic authorities of the Roman church of Emperor Constantine, as Jerome, Hilary and Augustine, and later condemned as being heretical and by the middle of the fifth century they had passed out of circulation and were thought to have been lost for millennia. Even though Jude, a member of the family of Mary the biological mother of Jesus, Joseph and James, quoted verbatim from the words of Righteous Enoch.

From the Book of Enoch the prophet, 8: 1-3; “And Azazel taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways.”

AZAZEL was one of the heavenly beings who descended in the days of Jared, the physical father of Enoch. BTW, the Hebrew word ‘JARED’ means ‘Descending.’

From the Book of Enoch the prophet 10: 1 verse 4-7; “Bind Azazel hand and foot, and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dudael, and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there for ever, and cover his face that he may not see light ------- verse 9; And the whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him 'ASCRIBE ALL SIN."

Here is the scapegoat for the repentant sinners.

That will do for now, I will return to your childish and ignorant attacks against our chosen brother and high priest, out Lord Jesus, who we once knew as a human being. a descendant from the seed of Adam, who was the first of many brothers and sister, who are to be conformed to the glorious image of our Lord God and savior, "THE SON OF MAN."
 

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