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White Supremacist Terrorism

 
 
Reply Mon 5 Aug, 2019 07:44 am
Is there anyone here who denies that these recent mass shootings (especially the one in El Paso) count as acts of terrorism committed by White Supremacists?

We have people with actual White Supremacist beliefs committing actual murder for the stated purpose of reaching political objectives.

It is time to call this what it is.
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Type: Question • Score: 8 • Views: 1,882 • Replies: 97

 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 Aug, 2019 10:32 am
@maxdancona,
You're a bit late to the party, Coldjoint has been supporting neo Nazi terrorists on this thread since it was started.

https://able2know.org/topic/451026-1
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Aug, 2019 12:12 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Is there anyone here who denies...?


You know the answer. Sad!y, unfortunately, you and many more here, know the answer.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Aug, 2019 12:53 pm
@izzythepush,
You have accused me of a supporting neo-nazi terrorists too (after I suggested that free speech should apply to people with whom you disagree). I didnt intend this thread to be about ideological mud slinging.

Has ColdJoint actually supported these attacks? If not, then I think you are off base. Ideological sniping doesnt address problems.

I would be interested in knowing if Cold Joint considers this to be terrorism.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 5 Aug, 2019 04:51 pm
@maxdancona,
Unfortunately I believe that Coldjoint is currently suspended.

I don't know what for, or for how long.

If it helps, I have already referred to this as a terrorist attack:
http://able2know.org/topic/527179-3#post-6880303
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 Aug, 2019 08:35 pm
@oralloy,
So you get the Dr Obvious Award For Mon Aug 5 YOOL 2019
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Aug, 2019 10:50 pm
@farmerman,
I believe he actually did that for the sole purpose of redirecting everyone to another thread. After all, it is supposed to be all about oralloy all the time, isn't it?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 5 Aug, 2019 11:33 pm
Sometimes leftists are so desperate to lash out at someone for telling the truth that they are just bursting at the seams, but they can't think of a single thing to attack them for.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Aug, 2019 01:11 am
@maxdancona,
I gave you the link, I'm not surprised you can't be bothered to see for yourself. Supporters of far right policies always hide behind "free speech." If the only argument you have is that of free speech you have no argument at all.

Let's just confirm your position, you're perfectly happy with neo Nazis creating a climate of fear, it's just when someone starts taking things to the next level and starts shooting you consider something amiss.

Maybe if instead of fetichising free speech, (although that never included women in the Me Too movement,) you put human rights at the top of your agenda you might escape being called a hypocrite and enabler of Nazis.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 6 Aug, 2019 05:23 am
@izzythepush,
Izzy,

1. Be very careful restricting free speech. Some day you might want it again. Free speech was used by abolitionist, LGBT activists and anti-war activists throughout history. For you to think that this is just protecting far right "nazis" is misguided. Free speech protects you too.

2. I am speaking out against extremism. I speak out against extremism from the right. I also speak out against extremism from the left. The two sides feed off of each other, extremists from one side use the extremism from the other side to justify their own extreme views (for example taking away free speech).

3. Free speech has nothing to do with violence. I support your free speech. I don't believe that you have ever "taken things to the next level and started shooting".

4. I support the free speech of everyone. This includes nazis and the women of #MeToo. I am not making an equivalence (in fact you brought them up). The point is that if free speech only applies to people you like, then it isn't free speech.

5, You don't want to give human rights to Nazis. I kind of understand that. However there is a problem. Someone, or some political group, or some religion has to decide who gets human rights and who doesn't.

The question of who is a Nazi is rather fuzzy, particularly among political ideologues (on both the right and the left). I know for a fact that you yourself have been called a Nazi.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Aug, 2019 05:32 am
I wanted this thread to be a discussion about the definition of terrorism. My thesis is that the word "terrorism" should be used equally when referring to the far right, the far left, or any given ethnic group.

What happened on this thread wasn't my intent... however I will not back down on my point that human rights apply to everyone.

I don't think it is helpful for people to use this tragedy to score points in an ongoing ideological feud.

0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Aug, 2019 06:40 am
Max, I was thinking about this small space between free speech and incitement to violence and what Trump is guilty of—which is creating an environment conducive to violence.

I’m like you re strong support for freedom of speech. I agree with US law about incitement to violence.

I do believe trump’s rhetoric has grown the white supremacist movement here and probably elsewhere. One of these recent murderers spelled out trump’s name with guns and rifles. No one will ever convince me that trump’s rhetoric didn’t embolden these guys to commit these mass murders.

We’re seeing open condemnation of trump now among elected officials. I think an official censure is in order. My question: when a public official actively creates a climate that is damaging in this way to elements of our public, is there any other legal option available to address it?
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Tue 6 Aug, 2019 06:50 am
@maxdancona,
I don't want hate speech to be given that protection which is what you want.

You think lies are every bit as important as the truth and that Holocaust Denial is fine.

You're not interested in Free Speech, just rewriting History, and you definitely don't want women to practice free speech.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Tue 6 Aug, 2019 06:54 am
@maxdancona,
You're the one who thinks human rights take second place to free speech.

Not allowing Nazis to deny the Holocaust is not taking away their Human Rights.

Why the sudden change of attitude, you were quite happy when Nazis were marching in Charlottesville and killing people with cars, quite happy.

All that seems to have changed is that Trump has decided to condemn white supremacism this time and you've followed suit.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Aug, 2019 07:03 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Izzy,

1. Be very careful restricting free speech. Some day you might want it again.


Look to your own house first and where your fetishisation of free speech has got you. 255 mass shootings this year alone, and you have the cheek to tell us we should deny the Holocaust and support your Nazis.

I'd much rather live in a country where children are protected from people like you.

How would you feel if it was your children murdered by those Nazis you support so much? Would you be so supportive then?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Aug, 2019 07:28 am
Has anyone else noticed the wonderful irony in Izzy's posts.

Read how hateful his speech is. He is blaming anyonr who disagrees with him of deadly atrocities (for the record what he is accusing me of is a pure lie).

You might even say that Izzy is inciting to violence.

That is the problem with restricting free speech. It always comes down to the desire to prevent dissent from you political ideology.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Tue 6 Aug, 2019 07:45 am
@maxdancona,
You don't understand irony. What's ironic is you starting a thread "condemning" white supremacist terrorism only after Donald Trump said it was wrong. You were fine with it beforehand.

So why, if you're not a Trump supporter, did you only condemn white supremacist terrorism after Trump said you could?

I've not called for violence against anyone, and you have a track record in dishonesty.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Tue 6 Aug, 2019 08:41 am
@maxdancona,
The only thing Izzy is passionately obsessive about, is food. Can you learn, perhaps , to not take yourself so seriously. You make a great target , you know?.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 6 Aug, 2019 08:48 am
@farmerman,
The funny thing about USA os that e have these strictures emplaced upon our behavior contained within a "Bill of Rights". Every stinking one of the Amendments is routinely challenged in our day-to-day practice. Yet we proudly show our disdain for any other govt system and start venting about "Socialism" when most Merkin folks have no ideas what it even does in practice.

Like that moron Oral wants to kill off anyone who doesnt believe as he does in his narrow worldview.
If you dont agree with him you should be "banned" (or worse)

Pinky is another xample of un lashed hate speech. Apparently hes been given a "time-out" for his obsessive white supremacist worldview.

Yeah, "see the world my way or your not a true believer".


maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 6 Aug, 2019 09:06 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

The only thing Izzy is passionately obsessive about, is food. Can you learn, perhaps , to not take yourself so seriously. You make a great target , you know?.


Actually, I don't see very much difference between Oralloy and Izzy. They are the same person... just on two different extremes of the ideological spectrum.
 

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