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Can Souls in Hell be Forgiven and Saved and Go to Heaven?

 
 
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 06:43 pm
Does anyone here know for an absolute certainty that the Bible actually states human souls in Hell have no chance for forgiveness?

Believe it or not, I did read the Bible, and I don't recall it actually explicitly stating "Once you are in Hell, you no longer have any chance for forgiveness, for Redemption."

That doesn't seem too Christian. Lets assume for a moment there's a Hell. Some people are down there praying to Jesus, begging for forgiveness, begging to be forgiven for not believing in the twisted corrupt Churches while they were on earth. And Jesus just ignores them?

The Jesus I imagine wouldn't ignore them, not even if they were in Hell. The Jesus I know wouldn't be that petty. He doesn't care if they screwed up & they're in Hell....He'd forgive them and go get them.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 42 • Views: 59,303 • Replies: 625

 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 07:02 pm
The most powerful proof that souls in eternity can be helped is that Jesus Christ entered eternity, immediately after His victory on the cross, to preach the gospel to those who were in captivity there. "For this reason the gospel was preached also to those that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit." (See 1 Peter 3:19,20 and 4: 6) That Jesus Christ would preach the gospel to these souls is demonstration of His longing to minister to them and proof that they can be helped. This was the first time that service was rendered to the departed.

Scripture tells us that Jesus Christ is "Lord of both the dead and the living." (See Romans 14:9) He would that all would be saved (See 1Timothy 2:4). The souls in eternity are part of that "all". He told His disciples, "Most assuredly I say to you, the hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live." (John 5:25) Ministering to these souls in spiritual misery and captivity is perfectly consistent with the nature and intention of Jesus Christ. He wants to minister to all souls. He has proven that He can.
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SN95
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 07:46 pm
I always wondered if you are in heaven, can you yourself redeem someone else? I'll use the following hypothetical scenario.

Let's say I live a spiritual and moral life and am granted access to heaven. My parents, never believing in religion strongly does not go to church and is not "saved" and thus goes to hell. Now is it really heaven for me knowing that my parents are suffering in hell? Now it becomes a matter of other people's fate that affect my enjoyment of heaven. Can you honestly say you would enjoy heaven knowing that a loved one (spouse, parent, child) is in hell? I don't think so. So now by me being entered into heaven does this allow me to "save" my parents who are in hell because I can't enjoy heaven if they're in hell?
extra medium
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 07:52 pm
SN95 wrote:
I always wondered if you are in heaven, can you yourself redeem someone else? I'll use the following hypothetical scenario.

Let's say I live a spiritual and moral life and am granted access to heaven. My parents, never believing in religion strongly does not go to church and is not "saved" and thus goes to hell. Now is it really heaven for me knowing that my parents are suffering in hell? Now it becomes a matter of other people's fate that affect my enjoyment of heaven. Can you honestly say you would enjoy heaven knowing that a loved one (spouse, parent, child) is in hell? I don't think so. So now by me being entered into heaven does this allow me to "save" my parents who are in hell because I can't enjoy heaven if they're in hell?


I've wondered that too, especially regarding kids & parents.

You know, lets say you make it to heaven. But your kids don't.

What do you do, go "Oh well, thats not our problem...it is so beautiful here!"

Maybe your "mind" is wiped of their memory? That doesn't seem heaven-like either.

What if you have 8 kids and only say 6 make it (thats pretty good, by the way, I'd say: 75% Heaven Success Rate!). You all just hang out up there having a great old time, and forget about the other 2? No sadness for the other 2?

Something doesn't add up...
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 08:17 pm
If you believe that those in eternity can be helped and you believe that you yourself are worthy to be in heaven and that Jesus wanted that all be saved then there is only one answer to your question. That would be yes. As long as this happens before the final judgement.
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JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 08:24 pm
I can't answer the question. I do not believe in heaven, hell, souls....but I do believe in forgiveness.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 08:47 pm
JLNobody wrote:
I can't answer the question. I do not believe in heaven, hell, souls....but I do believe in forgiveness.


Forgiveness is a prerequisite and is necessary for all of us. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
SN95
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 08:53 pm
Intrepid wrote:
If you believe that those in eternity can be helped and you believe that you yourself are worthy to be in heaven and that Jesus wanted that all be saved then there is only one answer to your question. That would be yes. As long as this happens before the final judgement.


I didn't realize there was a deadline. So then, it would be best to have been born a long time ago because you have a better chance/longer time period to save people. For instance, if judgement day is tomorrow then it would've been better for me to have been born at the time of Jesus because then I would have had 2,000 years to "save" my loved one from hell. Now I only have 24 hours.
0 Replies
 
extra medium
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 08:55 pm
JLNobody wrote:
I can't answer the question. I do not believe in heaven, hell, souls....but I do believe in forgiveness.


Oh, and I suppose you think that will save you? Razz

Well anyway: fine, pal, then I assume I can keep giving you a bad time and you'll (eventually) forgive me! I like your beliefs! Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 08:56 pm
SN95 wrote:
Intrepid wrote:
If you believe that those in eternity can be helped and you believe that you yourself are worthy to be in heaven and that Jesus wanted that all be saved then there is only one answer to your question. That would be yes. As long as this happens before the final judgement.


I didn't realize there was a deadline. So then, it would be best to have been born a long time ago because you have a better chance/longer time period to save people. For instance, if judgement day is tomorrow then it would've been better for me to have been born at the time of Jesus because then I would have had 2,000 years to "save" my loved one from hell. Now I only have 24 hours.

That would only be true if your loved one was born 2.000 years ago. Smile
Whether it is 2000 years or 2 minutes is really not the issue. Also, it is not necessarily you that would bring your loved one...it could be any believing soul that wants to help to bring the last soul to redemption. See, you won't have to do it alone.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 08:59 pm
Re: Can Souls in Hell be Forgiven and Saved and Go to Heaven
extra medium wrote:
Does anyone here know for an absolute certainty that the Bible actually states human souls in Hell have no chance for forgiveness?

Believe it or not, I did read the Bible, and I don't recall it actually explicitly stating "Once you are in Hell, you no longer have any chance for forgiveness, for Redemption."

That doesn't seem too Christian. Lets assume for a moment there's a Hell. Some people are down there praying to Jesus, begging for forgiveness, begging to be forgiven for not believing in the twisted corrupt Churches while they were on earth. And Jesus just ignores them?

The Jesus I imagine wouldn't ignore them, not even if they were in Hell. The Jesus I know wouldn't be that petty. He doesn't care if they screwed up & they're in Hell....He'd forgive them and go get them.
Job askd God to conceal him in Hell. (Job 14:13) What do you think that meant?
0 Replies
 
extra medium
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 09:13 pm
Re: Can Souls in Hell be Forgiven and Saved and Go to Heaven
neologist wrote:
Job askd God to conceal him in Hell. (Job 14:13) What do you think that meant?


Job "14:10:But man dies and is laid low;
he breathes his last and is no more.

11 As water disappears from the sea
or a riverbed becomes parched and dry,

12 so man lies down and does not rise;
till the heavens are no more, men will not awake
or be roused from their sleep.

13 "If only you would hide me in the grave
and conceal me till your anger has passed!
If only you would set me a time
and then remember me!"


Hmm...in the version I looked up, it is translated as requesting to be hidden in "the grave."

But lets assume its "conceal me in Hell."

Well, I guess we could write a book just on this passage.

It sounds like he's asking God to hide him in Hell or the grave until God's anger has passed. Then one assumes, please take me back outta hell or the grave.

I guess its better to be in Hell or in the grave than to be in the presence of God's anger?

Mind-boggling.

In any event, it seems to imply that there is a chance for exit from Hell.

If there was eternal Hell, it seems Job would ask God to "send me to Hell forever" or some such instead of "hide me there."

Usually when you hide something, you don't hide it eternally.

But who knows.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 09:25 pm
OK, the Hebrew word is sheol, translated either as 'hell' or 'the grave'. Same thing really, since there is no consciousness in either place.
Terry
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 09:40 pm
Quote:


Sounds pretty final to me. God will wipe your tears and you will not mourn those who ended up in the fiery lake.

Would a loving God really throw people into a fiery lake for not believing in him? You can find a passage in the Bible to justify virtually any belief on the subject. Personally, I don't take anything in the Bible as Gospel.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:30 pm
Terry, if I were to have a megalomaniacal episode and think I am God, I might kill my neighbor's dog for not believing in me.
smog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 May, 2005 11:38 pm
Without some kind of potential mobility, Judgment Day would be fairly redundant.

"Yeah, all right, I've already known for centuries that I'm damned for eternity. Can we just get this thing over with?"

(That second part was my attempt at a joke. Didn't turn out too well, but I'm too lazy to erase it. Anyway, my original point was still serious, though.)
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 10:48 am
Extra Medium: I can't help but wonder, judging from the titles of your threads about Satan etc., whether you're using Socratic irony or are playing the devil's advocate or what. Some of your posts show an intelligent insight, but your obsession with literal religious images, e.g., satan, makes me wonder.

The film, "What Heaven May Bring," starring Robin Williams addresses some similar questions, but the film is most interesting if taken metaphorically rather than as a view of a literal heaven.
0 Replies
 
extra medium
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 12:04 pm
coluber2001 wrote:
Extra Medium: I can't help but wonder, judging from the titles of your threads about Satan etc., whether you're using Socratic irony or are playing the devil's advocate or what. Some of your posts show an intelligent insight, but your obsession with literal religious images, e.g., satan, makes me wonder.

The film, "What Heaven May Bring," starring Robin Williams addresses some similar questions, but the film is most interesting if taken metaphorically rather than as a view of a literal heaven.


I know--I see the whole thing as a metaphor, if anything.

Here's one thing I am attempting to examine: 50+ denominations read & interpret the Bible literally & metaphorically, at different points, when it suits them. "Oh, this_________part is a metaphor, and this ________ part is to be read literally." And they all argue over which parts are literal, which are metaphors.

Its one of the central areas of debate & strife & disagreement.

My idea is: if we're going to decide individually when the Bible is a metaphor and when it is literal, it renders the entire thing almost meaningless.

"Oh, the 10 Commandments? That was just a metaphor & simile. Its really okay to kill, they just meant don't kill wantonly" or some such. Denominations do this all the time (though perhaps not as flagrant, its every bit as bad and sometimes more insidious because they sometimes camouflage it well.)

Thus, I am interested in people's differing views on some of these questions. Interensting how 100 people can have 150 different ideas about the same passage.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 12:19 pm
In the end... those who chose rightly will win. Those who did not will lose. About as simple as it gets.

As for the commandments..... Jesus gave 2 simple commandments. This covers just about everything that a Christian should do.

Matthew 22:37-39
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Luke 10:27
And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 May, 2005 01:45 pm
Can't we say, EM, that every statement we make about the world is metaphorical? The world does not consist of words (although when we speak we are casting words into the world); words 'stand for' experiences about "the world" which is, essentially, meaningless. We inject metaphorical meaning into the world by means of language.
0 Replies
 
 

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