Offered without trepidation, I believe.
BTW, how are ya?
The catholics pray for the dead, and I believe we should do the same.
Welcome to the forum, Asellers. You will have to do better than that.
Asellers wrote:LoL...No offense Neo...but this sounds comical at best...No one branch of faith, knows more about the afterlife than another...and this is shown by the fact you used an atheist's position to make your parallel connection...when an atheist can not understand more about an afterlife they do not even believe exists...Those in the grave are not asleep, they are fully awake, and can be contacted (Jesus spoke to Lazarus, and he heard and obeyed). The study of life after death and especially evp ( electronic Voice Phenomenon), points to evidence there are three kinds of contact: 1. Normal communication 2. Pleas for help 3. And the darker energies that are there to cause trouble, death, and destruction. It is my opinion from studying these things, those suffering in Hades are being tormented by demons, and contact is forbidden with the dead, because you can encounter these tormentors. Those pleas for help maybe helped through evangelizing to them, but you are putting yourself at risk, as well as the reality of being able to focus when you are tortured, seems low.
Quote:One thing both atheist and JW understand: when you're dead, you're dead.
What do you honestly think about the above and what Asellers had posted? What is the atheist counter perspective of evidence, of this above since Asellers said that above points to the evidence, and has studied this...
When a person fully conquers their own ego, is when they know that they are free, is when they know they are saved...whoever they are...whoever they claim to be...and whatever is going to happen...
In life or death...or neither...
Quote:And how do you believe that both a JW and atheist actually know this? Is it based upon a book that also says that Lazarus was raised from the dead like Asellers had pointed out? Along with many other scriptures within it that depict an awakened state? Because if it is, you are doing yourself a disservice to quote the Old Testament, but not believe John 3:16...etc...you have to believe it all...or none of it...If one believes it is the word of God then it is...If one does not...then they don't...It is worse for anyone to selectively pick out verses they want to hear or believe...I agree that if one is going to doubt anything, then they should doubt the Hell or bad part...If they have to just doubt something...but the book in its entirety, is what it is...One thing both atheist and JW understand: when you're dead, you're dead.
And how do you suppose an atheist can agree with a JW when an atheist does not even use the passages you have just quoted yourself in order to rationalize how they are correct...that when you are dead, you are dead...and personally think others must do better than that...
One thing neither you nor the atheist understand is the meaning of the resurrection.Adam and Eve had only two possible eventualities, life on a perfect earth or death. By their disobedience, they chose death not only for themselves but for their offspring. But God did not abandon his purpose. We still have those same possibilities set before us.
How do you interpret the passages in 1 Peter (3-19,20 and 4-6) then?
InfraBlue wrote:Going back one verse: (1 Peter 3:18-20) " . . . Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous [person] for unrighteous ones, that he might lead YOU to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit. 19 In this [state] also he went his way and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah’s days, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water." So who were the spirits? Is that what you mean? The only spirits notably mentioned in Noah's day were those angels who forsook their heavenly place to materialize and have relations with humans. They were no longer able to do so after the flood; hence, were in prison.How do you interpret the passages in 1 Peter (3-19,20 and 4-6) then?
Further: (1 Peter 4:6) " . . . In fact, for this purpose the good news was declared also to the dead, that they might be judged as to the flesh from the standpoint of men but might live as to the spirit from the standpoint of God."
Since those physically dead are not conscious, Peter must be referring to those who are spiritually dead. It goes along with the rest of Chapter 4.
In regard to the lines that you’re talking about, where do you get that reading from? . . .
You’re making assumptions here to fit your theological prejudices. The line makes reference to judging the dead as to the flesh from the standpoint of men-- living beings--so that they may live in regard to the spirit. There is nothing metaphorical about it. The reference to the dead in chapter 4 corresponds to what is written in chapter 3.