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Can Souls in Hell be Forgiven and Saved and Go to Heaven?

 
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Mar, 2013 04:36 pm
@Intrepid,
Offered without trepidation, I believe.

BTW, how are ya?
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 10:57 am
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Offered without trepidation, I believe.

BTW, how are ya?


Of course, Neo.

I am fine. Getting mellow in my old age Smile
I hope all is well with you.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Mar, 2013 11:51 am
@Intrepid,
Old? Is that what's happening to us? . . .

I guess I must have forgotten. . .




Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Mar, 2013 10:45 am
@neologist,
You are forgiven




Wink
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Mar, 2013 10:46 am
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Mar, 2013 10:49 am
Every thread should have a soundtrack.
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Mar, 2013 05:08 am
@extra medium,
Yes...and anyone who says that they can not...Or condemns anyone for their own subjective reasons based upon a blind faith acceptance of what certain individuals scribed (the prophets, apostles) with their own understandings of what the spirit of God had to say (prophecy)...and not what each believer actually honestly believes based upon their own acceptance of what the spirit of God has to say to them personally (their apostolic nature) that make up God as one, are subject to the same exact punishment they are willing to condemn others for...

Even Jesus himself descended into Hell for 3 days to redeem souls...
0 Replies
 
Asellers98
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jun, 2013 08:14 pm
@neologist,
Shoel is the place the Jews stated the dead goto, and is absolutely not hell (hell is not the proper translation). Jesus then divided shoel into two, the saved in one part, and the unsaved in Hades. Then in Revelations 19-20, those in the graves will be judged and sent to heaven or hell at the final judgement. Those in the grave are not asleep, they are fully awake, and can be contacted (Jesus spoke to Lazarus, and he heard and obeyed). The study of life after death and especially evp ( electronic Voice Phenomenon), points to evidence there are three kinds of contact: 1. Normal communication 2. Pleas for help 3. And the darker energies that are there to cause trouble, death, and destruction. It is my opinion from studying these things, those suffering in Hades are being tormented by demons, and contact is forbidden with the dead, because you can encounter these tormentors. Those pleas for help maybe helped through evangelizing to them, but you are putting yourself at risk, as well as the reality of being able to focus when you are tortured, seems low.

The catholics pray for the dead, and I believe we should do the same. Jesus' proclaimation to the dead is what needs to save them, and not our direct assistance.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jun, 2013 08:46 pm
@Asellers98,
Quote:
The catholics pray for the dead, and I believe we should do the same.

I am not a Catholic, but I will say a special intention prayer tonight...and I hope you do the same...and I hope another anonymous does as well and even more who feel compelled...

(2 are better than one, and a cord of 3 is not easily broken)

Wink...Very Happy

Thank you for your perspective...I am glad that I read that tonight...
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jun, 2013 11:08 pm
@Asellers98,
Welcome to the forum, Asellers. You will have to do better than that.
Compare these citations:

(Psalm 146:4)  4 His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish.
(Ecclesiastes 9:5) . . .For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.
(Ecclesiastes 9:10) . . .All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She′ol, the place to which you are going.
(Ezekiel 18:4) . . .The soul that is sinning—it itself will die.

Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of the first 3 chapters of Genesis must understand the only options for mankind are life and death. It was Satan who interjected the idea that somehow we will not die, that some part of us must live on. Believe that lie at your peril.


edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Jun, 2013 04:57 am
Damn that Satan. He's a bad egg, for certain.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jun, 2013 06:10 am
@edgarblythe,
One thing both atheist and JW understand: when you're dead, you're dead.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jun, 2013 06:27 am
@neologist,
Quote:
Welcome to the forum, Asellers. You will have to do better than that.

Asellers wrote:
Those in the grave are not asleep, they are fully awake, and can be contacted (Jesus spoke to Lazarus, and he heard and obeyed). The study of life after death and especially evp ( electronic Voice Phenomenon), points to evidence there are three kinds of contact: 1. Normal communication 2. Pleas for help 3. And the darker energies that are there to cause trouble, death, and destruction. It is my opinion from studying these things, those suffering in Hades are being tormented by demons, and contact is forbidden with the dead, because you can encounter these tormentors. Those pleas for help maybe helped through evangelizing to them, but you are putting yourself at risk, as well as the reality of being able to focus when you are tortured, seems low.


Quote:
One thing both atheist and JW understand: when you're dead, you're dead.



LoL...No offense Neo...but this sounds comical at best...No one branch of faith, knows more about the afterlife than another...and this is shown by the fact you used an atheist's position to make your parallel connection...when an atheist can not understand more about an afterlife they do not even believe exists...

What do you honestly think about the above and what Asellers had posted? What is the atheist counter perspective of evidence, of this above since Asellers said that above points to the evidence, and has studied this...

When a person fully conquers their own ego, is when they know that they are free, is when they know they are saved...whoever they are...whoever they claim to be...and whatever is going to happen...

In life or death...or neither...

Quote:
One thing both atheist and JW understand: when you're dead, you're dead.

And how do you believe that both a JW and atheist actually know this? Is it based upon a book that also says that Lazarus was raised from the dead like Asellers had pointed out? Along with many other scriptures within it that depict an awakened state? Because if it is, you are doing yourself a disservice to quote the Old Testament, but not believe John 3:16...etc...you have to believe it all...or none of it...If one believes it is the word of God then it is...If one does not...then they don't...It is worse for anyone to selectively pick out verses they want to hear or believe...I agree that if one is going to doubt anything, then they should doubt the Hell or bad part...If they have to just doubt something...but the book in its entirety, is what it is...

And how do you suppose an atheist can agree with a JW when an atheist does not even use the passages you have just quoted yourself in order to rationalize how they are correct...that when you are dead, you are dead...and personally think others must do better than that...
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jun, 2013 07:08 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
One thing neither you nor the atheist understand is the meaning of the resurrection.Adam and Eve had only two possible eventualities, life on a perfect earth or death. By their disobedience, they chose death not only for themselves but for their offspring. But God did not abandon his purpose. We still have those same possibilities set before us.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jun, 2013 07:30 am
@neologist,
Quote:
One thing neither you nor the atheist understand is the meaning of the resurrection.Adam and Eve had only two possible eventualities, life on a perfect earth or death. By their disobedience, they chose death not only for themselves but for their offspring. But God did not abandon his purpose. We still have those same possibilities set before us.

Do you believe that Jesus had conquered this for us, and everyone?...Since the Bible clearly claims that he has...just as much so as it claims what you have just written within Genesis...

You do not have to worry about what you think I do not understand...Let go of the ego...Now you are saying that the atheist doesn't understand this either, after you had said before that they understand things over a person who appears to be a Catholic? And actually freely chooses to read the Bible? So who knows the ultimate truth then just J.W.'s? Or just Neo himself?

Do you see my point?

If one lets go of their own ego...they will be free forever no matter what happens...
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Jun, 2013 09:25 am
@neologist,
How do you interpret the passages in 1 Peter (3-19,20 and 4-6) then?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jun, 2013 12:30 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
How do you interpret the passages in 1 Peter (3-19,20 and 4-6) then?
Going back one verse: (1 Peter 3:18-20) " . . . Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous [person] for unrighteous ones, that he might lead YOU to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit. 19 In this [state] also he went his way and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah’s days, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water." So who were the spirits? Is that what you mean? The only spirits notably mentioned in Noah's day were those angels who forsook their heavenly place to materialize and have relations with humans. They were no longer able to do so after the flood; hence, were in prison.

Further: (1 Peter 4:6) " . . . In fact, for this purpose the good news was declared also to the dead, that they might be judged as to the flesh from the standpoint of men but might live as to the spirit from the standpoint of God."
Since those physically dead are not conscious, Peter must be referring to those who are spiritually dead. It goes along with the rest of Chapter 4.

neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jun, 2013 12:41 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
It has nothing to do with ego and everything to do with truth. I have often contended that a good understanding of the first three Bible chapters would provide the reader with more insight than a lifetime of Sunday sermons in christendom. So:
Are you ready to deny that Adam and Eve would still be alive today had they not sinned? Or, are you saying God's purpose changed because of their sin? I'd like to hear your answer.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jun, 2013 02:49 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
How do you interpret the passages in 1 Peter (3-19,20 and 4-6) then?
Going back one verse: (1 Peter 3:18-20) " . . . Why, even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous [person] for unrighteous ones, that he might lead YOU to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit. 19 In this [state] also he went his way and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah’s days, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water." So who were the spirits? Is that what you mean? The only spirits notably mentioned in Noah's day were those angels who forsook their heavenly place to materialize and have relations with humans. They were no longer able to do so after the flood; hence, were in prison.

Actually, I was referring to the lines that say, “he being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit. In this [state] also he went his way and preached to the spirits in prison. . .
In regard to the lines that you’re talking about, where do you get that reading from?
Quote:
Further: (1 Peter 4:6) " . . . In fact, for this purpose the good news was declared also to the dead, that they might be judged as to the flesh from the standpoint of men but might live as to the spirit from the standpoint of God."
Since those physically dead are not conscious, Peter must be referring to those who are spiritually dead. It goes along with the rest of Chapter 4.

You’re making assumptions here to fit your theological prejudices. The line makes reference to judging the dead as to the flesh from the standpoint of men-- living beings--so that they may live in regard to the spirit. There is nothing metaphorical about it. The reference to the dead in chapter 4 corresponds to what is written in chapter 3.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jun, 2013 03:45 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
In regard to the lines that you’re talking about, where do you get that reading from? . . .
Now, I'm not sure what you are talking about
InfraBlue wrote:
You’re making assumptions here to fit your theological prejudices. The line makes reference to judging the dead as to the flesh from the standpoint of men-- living beings--so that they may live in regard to the spirit. There is nothing metaphorical about it. The reference to the dead in chapter 4 corresponds to what is written in chapter 3.
You could say that, of course, but my 'prejudices' are based on biblical fact. The difference between spiritual and actual death should be obvious. The Bible is clear about the condition of those who have died. And it is clear that the 'sons of the (true) God' mentioned in Genesis 6:2 were (are) spirits who may no longer materialize as before. They are not dead (yet); but they are restricted, or 'in prison'.
 

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