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Can Souls in Hell be Forgiven and Saved and Go to Heaven?

 
 
Harry Blake
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2016 06:53 pm
@cicerone imposter,
said- "Actually, HB, they feel comfort and security when they pray.[to Mary and saints] That is a benefit"
-----------------------------------------------------------------

If catholics get "comfort and security" from disobeying Jesus they must be nuttier than a Mr Whippy icecream peanut sundae!
When his disciples asked him how to pray, he said-
"Our Father which art in heaven..."
See, no mention of his mum or anybody else..Smile
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2016 06:58 pm
@Harry Blake,
No. It doesn't matter who they pray to. Most Hindus pray to their god(s), and they feel comfort and security from it. Buddhists pray to their god with the same effect. Praying to Mary or any saint has the same effect.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2016 07:05 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Since "praying" seems natural I wonder to whom or what the atheists pray ?...I do it to walls and things around my environment.
It is very comforting to talk back to what made us what we are.
Its like a round circle closing up.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Feb, 2016 07:08 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I believe it's natural for humans to believe there's something greater than ourselves, and praying to it provides us with comfort and security.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Feb, 2016 05:10 am
@cicerone imposter,
Agreed..
I use to say that we all are pseudo intelectuals, the only difference being that some of us know it, while others do really believe they are that much more special...
Bigger n smaller snails will still be just snails...among us a half a brain intelligent monkey MUST KNOW he is just a monkey. Intelectual honesty demands it.
0 Replies
 
Smileyrius
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 09:58 am
Hi Harry, I hope you're well chap, any chance you could take a gander at my post a couple of pages back? I'd be keen to hear your thoughts

Cheers ears,
Smiley
Smileyrius
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 10:01 am
@Smileyrius,
I can save you the search.

Aside of a warm welcome, I raised these two thoughts
Quote:

Which of the Hells in the bible do you suppose people are consigned to? Hell (Sheol/Hades) Hell (Gehenna) or Hell (Tartaroo)? just helps me to know where you are coming from, or indeed where I am going. Wink

A slight aside, The testing ground theory is one I have had issue with in the past, what happens to those who are not tested? for example, babies and children, or those mentally incapacitated? what of those who do not hear about a god before death?


I don't think I wrote wink in the original text, I am sure the winkface smiley has been translated by the forum gods, if indeed they exist
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 02:54 pm
@Smileyrius,
Smileyrius wrote:
Hi Harry, I hope you're well chap, any chance you could take a gander at my post a couple of pages back? I'd be keen to hear your thoughts

Cheers ears,
Smiley
Sorry to say Harry has returned to his hideaway.
He could have been a great foil.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 05:22 pm
@Smileyrius,
Smileyrius wrote:
Which of the Hells in the bible do you suppose people are consigned to? Hell (Sheol/Hades) Hell (Gehenna) or Hell (Tartaroo)?


Why do you put the words Sheol and Hades together in one set of parenthesis, but put the words Ghenna and Tartaroo in separate parenthesis?
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 09:26 pm
@InfraBlue,
Smileyrius wrote:
Which of the Hells in the bible do you suppose people are consigned to? Hell (Sheol/Hades) Hell (Gehenna) or Hell (Tartaroo)?
InfraBlue wrote:
Why do you put the words Sheol and Hades together in one set of parenthesis, but put the words Ghenna and Tartaroo in separate parenthesis?
Perhaps because Sheol and Hades mean essentially the same thing.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 09:30 pm
If i've already posted this in this thread, so what?



Tartaroo . . . bible thumpers crack me up . . .
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2016 10:19 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:

I believe it's natural for humans to believe there's something greater than ourselves, and praying to it provides us with comfort and security.
Whether or not there is anyone listening to your prayer or its just the placebo effect, you believe it gives comfort and security. So I was curious where atheists go for the same comfort. Is there an equivalent source for them?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2016 10:36 am
@Leadfoot,
Yes. For me its "Natural Order". Instead of disorder and chaos. I believe there are reasons beyond my reasoning. In fact I believe in Reason not "reasoners".
Anyway I find comfort knowing that whatever I don't understand doesn't necessarily needs correction. I accept Nature as it is. If I "ask" for something and it doesn't come, I am fine with whatever the order of things brings on....I don't outguess the "finger of God"...
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2016 11:50 am
@Leadfoot,
No. We accept life without the need for any God.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2016 03:23 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Quote:
Yes. For me its "Natural Order". Instead of disorder and chaos. I believe there are reasons beyond my reasoning. In fact I believe in Reason not "reasoners".
I can understand CI's 'No' and why one would feel that way. I would think that having weighed the evidence and deciding there is no one to listen, it would only destroy one's sense of integrity to pretend to communicate.

But I don't understand your 'yes'. One can't ask or reason or draw comfort from 'no reasoner'. Are you saying that just knowing that you can't know gives you comfort?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2016 03:31 pm
@Leadfoot,
Evolution actually answers all the questions about any god; no need for it.
Evolution evolved over 4.5 billion years of this planet. Water and oxygen was the primary ingredient as well as the environment.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2016 05:05 pm
@Leadfoot,
You see bro you need a tangible not to distant from your nature personal talking speaking God.
I just need maths and nature, order itself all around my eyes, from fractals to Fibonacci sequencing. Reason is prior to "reasoners" is a good way to sum it up.
FIRST there is ORDER and Order is TRUTH, the path made n laid already, timeless...through REASON and because REASON is made thing and WORLD reasonners "emerge" on the process of the Cosmos unfolding through History. Our experiencing.

Now try to do reasoning on the shoulders of nothingness...go ahead !
Without Truth made material order made world you don't have logic to work with.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Feb, 2016 05:24 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Smileyrius wrote:
Which of the Hells in the bible do you suppose people are consigned to? Hell (Sheol/Hades) Hell (Gehenna) or Hell (Tartaroo)?
InfraBlue wrote:
Why do you put the words Sheol and Hades together in one set of parenthesis, but put the words Ghenna and Tartaroo in separate parenthesis?
Perhaps because Sheol and Hades mean essentially the same thing.

They--Sheol, Hades, Gehenna and Tartaroo--all mean essentially, or refer essentially to the same thing, being translated into English as "Hell," though, yet Smileyrius specifically groups the first two words.
Smileyrius
 
  3  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2016 04:35 am
@InfraBlue,
I guess I group the two because The Greek Septuagint does not differentiate between the two. Can you show me your workings on , while Wikipedia is not the ultimate authority on anything, it does give a basic division of these terms

Quote:
These three terms have different meanings and must be recognized.

Hades has similarities to the Old Testament term, Sheol as "the place of the dead" or "grave". Thus, it is used in reference to both the righteous and the wicked, since both wind up there eventually.[31]
Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnom", which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was a place where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation (such as people who committed suicide) were thrown there to be destroyed.[32] Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection.[33]
Tartaro'o (the verb "throw to Tartarus") occurs only once in the New Testament in II Peter 2:4, where it is parallel to the use of the noun form in 1 Enoch as the place of incarceration of the fallen angels. It mentions nothing about human souls being sent there in the afterlife.

I have not yet seen much to convince me that the perceived concept of Hell has not developed through a series if external influences
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Feb, 2016 05:56 pm
@Smileyrius,
Since the Septuagint uses the word Hades to translate the word Sheol into Greek, I wouldn't think differentiation would be involved.

The word Hades is used originally in the New Testament texts, however, with differing usages, e.g. Luke 16:23, Revelation 1:18, Matthew 11:23, Luke 10:15, etc.

In regard to Tartarus 2 Peter 2:9 states, "The Lord hath known to rescue pious ones out of temptation, and unrighteous ones to a day of judgment, being punished, to keep" (Young's literal translation). It does not refer only to angels but generally to "unrighteous ones."

I don't know what you mean by "external influences," as if the bible texts were written in a vacuum.
 

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