45
   

If Jesus is God, how is he called God's only begotten son?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 13 Jun, 2019 06:39 pm
@HabibUrrehman,
Quote:
...very first human being Adam.
That's not possible. Humans evolved from primates. That is what science and anthropologists prove today with evidence. The Bible has too many errors, omissions, and contradictions for it to be any "word of (any) god."
Jewels Vern
 
  -1  
Thu 13 Jun, 2019 09:27 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The bible says religion is made up by men telling each other what to do. The bible is the word of life, not the word of religion.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 13 Jun, 2019 10:44 pm
@Jewels Vern,
Religion is a practice by groups that "tries" to follow the teachings of its leader(s), and there are thousands of religions being followed by millions in this world today. Definition of religion:
Quote:
"re·li·gion
/rəˈlijən/
noun
1.
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
You wrote,
Quote:
The bible is the word of life, not the word of religion.
You made a contradiction without realizing it. "Life" is what we subjectively experience while we are conscious and able to perceive our environment that includes country, culture, race, religion, our standard of living, our freedoms and restrictions, and our physical handicaps or mobility. What I know for sure is that if anyone has life, they will also experience death. That's the beginning and the end for all life forms. Many things on this planet outlive animal life; redwood trees for one.
Quote:
General Sherman
Believed to be around 2,500 years old, General Sherman is the mightiest giant sequoia still standing. The volume of its trunk alone makes it the largest non-clonal tree by volume in the world, even though its largest branch broke off in 2006, smashing part of its enclosing fence and cratering the pavement of the surrounding walkway. Perhaps this was a sign that General Sherman could not be caged in? Sherman can be found in Sequoia National Park in California, where five of the 10 largest trees in the world exist.
0 Replies
 
HabibUrrehman
 
  1  
Fri 14 Jun, 2019 10:20 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
That's not possible. Humans evolved from primates. That is what science and anthropologists prove today with evidence. The Bible has too many errors, omissions, and contradictions for it to be any "word of (any) god."


I have seen that you have been using this argument without any basic knowledge of science. Let me explain how modern science actually proves the theory of evolution can't be true.

I hope you know thermodynamics or at least second law of thermodynamics, which is accepted as one of the basic laws of physics, holds that under normal conditions all systems left on their own tend to become disordered, dispersed, and corrupted in direct relation to the amount of time that passes.  Everything, whether living or not, wears out, deteriorates, decays, disintegrates, and is destroyed.  This is the absolute end that all beings will face one way or another, and according to the law, the process cannot be avoided.
This is something that all of us have observed.  For example if you take a car to a desert and leave it there, you would hardly expect to find it in a better condition when you came back years later.  On the contrary, you would see that its tires had gone flat, its windows had been broken, its chassis had rusted, and its engine had stopped working.  The same inevitable process holds true for living things.
The second law of thermodynamics is the means by which this natural process is defined, with physical equations and calculations.

This famous law of physics is also known as the “law of entropy.” In physics, entropy is the measure of the disorder of a system.  A system’s entropy increases as it moves from an ordered, organized, and planned state towards a more disordered, dispersed, and unplanned one.  The more disorder there is in a system, the higher its entropy is.  The law of entropy holds that the entire universe is unavoidably proceeding towards a more disordered, unplanned, and disorganized state.

The truth of the second law of thermodynamics, or the law of entropy, has been experimentally and theoretically established.  All foremost scientists agree that the law of entropy will remain the principle paradigm for the foreseeable future. 

Albert Einstein, the greatest scientist of our age, described it as the “premier law of all of science.”  Sir Arthur Eddington also referred to it as the “supreme metaphysical law of the entire universe:”
Evolutionary theory ignores this fundamental law of physics. 

The mechanism offered by evolution totally contradicts the second law.  The theory of evolution says that disordered, dispersed, and lifeless atoms and molecules spontaneously came together over time, in a particular order, to form extremely complex molecules such as proteins, DNA, and RNA, whereupon millions of different living species with even more complex structures gradually emerged.  According to the theory of evolution, this supposed process—which yields a more planned, more ordered, more complex and more organized structure at each stage—was formed all by itself under natural conditions.  The law of entropy makes it clear that this so-called natural process utterly contradicts the laws of physics.

Evolutionist scientists are also aware of this fact.  J.  H.  Rush states:
In the complex course of its evolution, life exhibits a remarkable contrast to the tendency expressed in the Second Law of Thermodynamics.  Where the Second Law expresses an irreversible progression toward increased entropy and disorder, life evolves continually higher levels of order.

The evolutionist author Roger Lewin expresses the thermodynamic impasse of evolution in an article in Science:
One problem biologists have faced is the apparent contradiction by evolution of the second law of thermodynamics.  Systems should decay through time, giving less, not more, order.

Another defender of the theory of evolution, George Stravropoulos, states the thermodynamic impossibility of the spontaneous formation of life and the impossibility of explaining the existence of complex living mechanisms by natural laws in the well-known evolutionist journal American Scientist:

Yet, under ordinary conditions, no complex organic molecule can ever form spontaneously, but will rather disintegrate, in agreement with the second law.  Indeed, the more complex it is, the more unstable it will be, and the more assured, sooner or later, its disintegration.  Photosynthesis and all life processes, and even life itself, cannot yet be understood in terms of thermodynamics or any other exact science, despite the use of confused or deliberately confusing language.

As we have seen, the evolution claim is completely at odds with the laws of physics.  The second law of thermodynamics constitutes an insurmountable obstacle for the scenario of evolution, in terms of both science and logic.  Unable to offer any scientific and consistent explanation to overcome this obstacle, evolutionists can only do so in their imagination. 

For instance, the well-known evolutionist Jeremy Rifkin notes his belief that evolution overwhelms this law of physics with a “magical power”:
The Entropy Law says that evolution dissipates the overall available energy for life on this planet.  Our concept of evolution is the exact opposite.  We believe that evolution somehow magically creates greater overall value and order on earth.

These words well indicate that evolution is a dogmatic belief rather than a scientific thesis.
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Thu 19 Aug, 2021 02:39 am
@HabibUrrehman,
Well written, But I still believe that the spaceship evolved from the wheel, after billions of creations that followed the wheel, each creation being the expression of the heights to which the mind of the creator of the spaceship had evolved at that time, until all the necessary technology was in place for the creator to say, "And now let us make the Spaceship."
0 Replies
 
BroRando
 
  1  
Sat 21 Aug, 2021 02:42 pm
@real life,
When I was researching Isaac Newton, I came across this article about Thomas Emlyn. I notice that many trinitarians on this forum have now abandoned the three seperate persons theology to claim Jesus is God in flesh. Modalism sprung from the pagan teaching of incarnation and for some odd reason is now attached to the trinity that is no longer three separate persons but one being is a oxy moron. Does anyone else notice this going on?

Thomas Emlyn—Blasphemer or Advocate of Truth?

During those times, Emlyn was carefully studying the Bible. His studies caused him to doubt the Trinity, although he had originally believed in it.

Emlyn did not immediately reveal what he had found. However, some in his Dublin church noticed that he did not refer to the Trinity in his sermons. Knowing that his findings would not be received well by others, he wrote: “I cannot hope to continue here in my present post, when once I have professed.”

Like William Whiston and another respected scholar, Isaac Newton, Emlyn found that the Bible does not support the Trinity doctrine as reflected in the Athanasian Creed.

He explained: “After much serious thought, and study of the holy Scriptures, . . . I found great reason . . . to alter my judgment, in relation to formerly received opinions of the Trinity.” He concluded that “the God and Father of Jesus Christ is alone the Supreme Being.”

What brought Emlyn to that conclusion? He found many scriptures pointing to differences between Jesus and His Father. Here are just a few examples (Emlyn’s comments on the scriptures are in italics):
John 17:3: “Christ is never said to be that one God or so God, as to be the only God.” Only the Father is called “the only true God.”

John 5:30: “The Son does not his own will, but the will of the Father.”

John 5:26: “His Life is given him of the Father.”

Ephesians 1:3: “Whereas Jesus Christ is commonly styled the Son of God, we never find the Father styled the Father of God, tho he be oft called the Father of our Lord Jesus.”

After Emlyn considered all the evidence, he emphatically stated: “There is no one passage in holy Scripture, wherein it can be so much as pretended, that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are expressly said to be one and the same individual being.”


The truth cannot be long hidden for the righteous of heart...
BroRando
 
  1  
Sat 21 Aug, 2021 02:48 pm
@AliceInWonderland,
Peter Speaking (Acts 2:38) Peter said to them: “Repent, and let each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the free gift of the holy spirit."

Trinitarians reject the Baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ.
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Sat 21 Aug, 2021 03:10 pm
@BroRando,
BroRando wrote:


When I was researching Isaac Newton, I came across this article about Thomas Emlyn. I notice that many trinitarians on this forum have now abandoned the three seperate persons theology to claim Jesus is God in flesh. Modalism sprung from the pagan teaching of incarnation and for some odd reason is now attached to the trinity that is no longer three separate persons but one being is a oxy moron. Does anyone else notice this going on?

Thomas Emlyn—Blasphemer or Advocate of Truth?

During those times, Emlyn was carefully studying the Bible. His studies caused him to doubt the Trinity, although he had originally believed in it.

Emlyn did not immediately reveal what he had found. However, some in his Dublin church noticed that he did not refer to the Trinity in his sermons. Knowing that his findings would not be received well by others, he wrote: “I cannot hope to continue here in my present post, when once I have professed.”

Like William Whiston and another respected scholar, Isaac Newton, Emlyn found that the Bible does not support the Trinity doctrine as reflected in the Athanasian Creed.

He explained: “After much serious thought, and study of the holy Scriptures, . . . I found great reason . . . to alter my judgment, in relation to formerly received opinions of the Trinity.” He concluded that “the God and Father of Jesus Christ is alone the Supreme Being.”

What brought Emlyn to that conclusion? He found many scriptures pointing to differences between Jesus and His Father. Here are just a few examples (Emlyn’s comments on the scriptures are in italics):
John 17:3: “Christ is never said to be that one God or so God, as to be the only God.” Only the Father is called “the only true God.”

John 5:30: “The Son does not his own will, but the will of the Father.”

John 5:26: “His Life is given him of the Father.”

Ephesians 1:3: “Whereas Jesus Christ is commonly styled the Son of God, we never find the Father styled the Father of God, tho he be oft called the Father of our Lord Jesus.”

After Emlyn considered all the evidence, he emphatically stated: “There is no one passage in holy Scripture, wherein it can be so much as pretended, that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are expressly said to be one and the same individual being.”


The truth cannot be long hidden for the righteous of heart...


Just about ALL fairytales get messy as they get examined. Witness Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, Snow White, Hansel and Gretel, and of course, The Bible.
0 Replies
 
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Sat 21 Aug, 2021 03:38 pm
@BroRando,
Much the same as there are three aspects to your being, the body which has evolved from the first life form to have crawled out of the primordial waters, in which body, within the innermost sanctuary behind the veil of the flesh dwells your parental spirit, which has evolved from the spirits of all your ancestors from all time.

Then there is the soul, which is the divine animating principle that pervades the entire universe and animates all within the living universal body, and the last and third aspect which is 'YOU' the evolving mind or Spirit.

You are one being consisting of body, soul, and spirit, or as the bible also says, to love God with all your heart=body, with all your mind=spirit, and with all your soul=life force.

He is the FIRST and the LAST
The BEGINNING and END
The ALPHA and OMEGA
The FATHER and SON.

The Alpha and Omega are the one being in two different positions in space time.

0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  -1  
Sat 4 Sep, 2021 12:37 pm
@neologist,
Because the 'Word' is identifiable - And, thusly the 'spell' is cast. The 'Spellcaster' knows this - The 'thrall' does not. You know this, Neo. For you are God. Are you not?

Have a lovely day
0 Replies
 
Joe Spike
 
  -2  
Thu 9 Sep, 2021 09:27 am
Trinity is the most destructive and divisive doctrine to ever enter the church. Not to mention that about 1 million people were murdered over it. The bishops of Rome voted on this issue three times before it finally passed by a very narrow margin of votes. Trinity became a 'middle ground' agreement among the bishops. It took about 300 years to fully develop this heresy.

Just the way the doctrine developed should raise red flags.

A brief history of the Trinity’s development.

AD 325 Jesus becomes God

The First Council of Nicaea formulated the original Nicene Creed. Most importantly, the council defined the equality of God the Father and Christ, his son. It taught that Jesus was of the same substance as God the Father and not just merely similar.

AD 381 The holy spirit becomes God

The First Council of Constantinople AD 381defined in four canons the Nicene Creed, which is still used in the Catholic Church. Most importantly, it defined the divinity of the Holy Spirit,

AD 451 Jesus Christ acquires two natures

The Council of Chalcedon defined the two natures (divine and human) of Jesus Christ. “We teach unanimously that the one son, our lord Jesus Christ to be fully God and fully human.

Trinity is big-time BOGUS!
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 9 Sep, 2021 10:24 am
@Joe Spike,
Joe Spike wrote:


Trinity is the most destructive and divisive doctrine to ever enter the church. Not to mention that about 1 million people were murdered over it. The bishops of Rome voted on this issue three times before it finally passed by a very narrow margin of votes. Trinity became a 'middle ground' agreement among the bishops. It took about 300 years to fully develop this heresy.

Just the way the doctrine developed should raise red flags.

A brief history of the Trinity’s development.

AD 325 Jesus becomes God

The First Council of Nicaea formulated the original Nicene Creed. Most importantly, the council defined the equality of God the Father and Christ, his son. It taught that Jesus was of the same substance as God the Father and not just merely similar.

AD 381 The holy spirit becomes God

The First Council of Constantinople AD 381defined in four canons the Nicene Creed, which is still used in the Catholic Church. Most importantly, it defined the divinity of the Holy Spirit,

AD 451 Jesus Christ acquires two natures

The Council of Chalcedon defined the two natures (divine and human) of Jesus Christ. “We teach unanimously that the one son, our lord Jesus Christ to be fully God and fully human.

Trinity is big-time BOGUS!


Thank you for sharing your blind guess about the nature of the god you blindly guess exists.

Very interesting.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Thu 9 Sep, 2021 12:28 pm
@Joe Spike,
Well put Joe.

Frank is one of the blind, so he doesn't believe in sight. Or anything else.
farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 9 Sep, 2021 01:51 pm
@Leadfoot,
joe should go back even further and cobble up how all the Abrahamy god legends began.
0 Replies
 
The Anointed
 
  -1  
Wed 29 Sep, 2021 03:53 am
@Jewels Vern,
Quote:
The only importance is that the Roman Catholic Church was the sole defender of the faith for over a thousand years.


Zechariah 11: 12-17. The Lord who revealed himself to us through his chosen earthly host body, the man 'JESUS' who he filled with his spirit on the day he was baptised, when the spirit of the Lord descended upon him in the form of a dove as the heavenly voice was heard to say; "You are my son, 'THIS DAY' I have begotten thee." was sold for thirty pieces of silver

Zechariah 11: 12; And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.

13 And the Lord said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the Lord.

14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

15 And the Lord said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd.

16 For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.

17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

Where do you suppose you would find the foolish shepherd who God raised up in the land after he had abandoned his stubborn Jewish flock, who was to guide his stubborn flock.

What Religious organisation succeeded the Jewish Church, which was destroyed by the Romans, the head of which church claims to be the Shepherd of God people?
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Wed 6 Oct, 2021 05:19 pm
We don't know what Jesus actually said or meant in a religious context, but to put a positive slant on it, I like to think he was a mystic. Christianity was formed and developed long after the death of Jesus, perhaps centuries.

Alan Watts said that when early Christianity was being developed in the first few centuries after the death of Jesus. the founders didn't know where Jesus fit into the religion, so they kicked him upstairs. This meant that they made him part of the religion in a supernatural context. They made the religion supernatural rather than natural. In other words, they corrupted the whole idea of Jesus as a mystic.
RMorris326
 
  2  
Thu 7 Oct, 2021 05:58 am
@neologist,
It is really quite simple. When Jesus was born of Mary - then He was begotten. Jesus prayed to the Father The Holy Spirit took the form of a dove as the Father spoke His approval of Jesus at Jesus baptism. Jesus said He had power to lay down His life and to take it up again. Which He did Sunday morning as He rose from the dead. Yet it is most complex - as it is far different than our own reality as we are only part of His creation. What we know of Him is only what He has revealed. What He has not revealed is not for us to know. We little could do what He does all the time. If we should try and be God it would kill us. We could not function with His responsibilities and power running through us - it would fry our brains as there would be too much for us to handle.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Thu 7 Oct, 2021 06:07 am
@coluber2001,
(I was actually respknding to the Joe Spike comment, but I just clicked on something)

Not at all!

Muhammad was developed long after the date when he supposedly lived, in areas far to the north. Oh yeah, and I got to the part where they talked about there being no Mecca when Muhammad supposedly lived!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kQshvbdCBnc

Jesus was written about in the same area, with a gap of fifteen to fifty years. And this was also accounting for them being busy being persecuted. Jesus's historicity has been addressed.

Though you are right about some of the Trinity stuff being done centuries later and out of state. But this was done by people with alot of time on their hands. And you don't have to believe in it, but this doesn't make it automatically a heresy.

I believe in it, because I've studied world religions, and it makes sense not only given what I've experienced, but from the perspective of Shintoism (says there are spirits in everything), Judaism (believes in one God who created all things), and Buddhism/Taoism (emphasis on mankind rather than divine stuff, and discussion of two natures). Christianity aligns with what other religions have been talking about pretty well. But not just that, the Trinity is actually talked about in the Old Testament. The Spirit of God is mentioned frequently in the old testament, like when King Saul loses it and starts being hopeless enough to resort to witchcraft. There is also a "man" that Jacob wrestles with who later says to call him Israel, because he has struggled with God and man. The reason you reject the Nicene Creed is the you don't understand it as the end result of several hundred years of thought, starting with the Jews, who already had a concept of Trinity but just couldn't put it together coherently. Actually it's one of the few concepts that successfully survived the Protestant Reformation. Lutherans rejected most of the Catholic teachings but agreed with the Trinity and the Nicene Creed.

No, the Trinity has always existed. Just as Jesus has. You see, "begotten not made" means that Jesus preexisted his birth incarnate in the body of Jesus. That he was not simply made then, but always was the human face of God. If you say to God, "I need to talk to you in person," he is part of those you interact with on a daily basis ( through the Holy Spirit) and he is personified in Jesus.

Now let's address a very important question. Suppose Jesus is not part of God but only some bastard kid. "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son to the end that all who believe in him shall not perish but have everlasting life." Well then, this is God being an asshole again. Look, he already almost sacrificed Isaac. Now this is him throwing away Jesus for everyone's sins. But what does he sacrifice, how is this really a forgiveness for sins? It's just some guy murdered, right?
Unless you understand that God has the marks in his hands and his side. That God did this for us. Jesus must be God, because God must have suffered for our sake, or the Gospel is a lie (which is really what you are accusing). Jesus must be human, or the sacrifice was not really one of us. This is what we mean by fully human and fully God.

Why was the curtain torn? The early former Jewish Christians understood this, because they understood the curtain was a separation of God from Man. But when Jesus came and did what he did for humanity, no such separation existed. Not anymore. Jesus didn't "become God". Nor did Jesus get created with his birth. You're thinking about this wrong. Jesus was born in human form, but before that, John says that Jesus was the Word of God. Proverbs calls this Wisdom, and makes this some female. We know this Word hasn't a fixed form. It is only when God is incarnate through Jesus that we find consistent descriptions of Jesus in art and writing.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Thu 7 Oct, 2021 06:31 am
@BroRando,
Says you.

That's a broad statement, when a lot of churches are Trinitarian. I was baptised in the name of the Father (the Creator), and the Son (Jesus Christ/the Word), and the Holy Spirit. I could have just as easily been baptised in the name of Jesus only. But it's covered.
0 Replies
 
Rose Marie
 
  -1  
Tue 26 Oct, 2021 08:07 pm
@SN95,
Jesus is not God
He said it himself that he is a man
 

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