45
   

If Jesus is God, how is he called God's only begotten son?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Sat 20 Nov, 2021 10:35 am
@theMadOne,
People have begotten what that was.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Sat 20 Nov, 2021 10:38 am
Frank said:
Quote:
You are NOT quoting my "apparent thoughts." You are quoting your distorted opinion of my thoughts...opinions distorted by your relative lack of intelligence and your questionable mental condition.

I understand Frank's attachment to this discussion.
But in my case it is his insistence that his opinion of what anyone else can know, or not know, is some sort of ground truth. It’s a self refuting argument.

I find myself wanting to know how he deals with the cognitive dissonance. He sounds too smart not to care about it. Perhaps he will inadvertently blurt it out at some point.
theMadOne
 
  0  
Sat 20 Nov, 2021 10:40 am
@izzythepush,
Begotten of Forgotten!
izzythepush
 
  2  
Sat 20 Nov, 2021 10:51 am
@theMadOne,
Bung the lot on Druid's bottom.
theMadOne
 
  0  
Sat 20 Nov, 2021 11:04 am
@izzythepush,
Hung the mop on Fluids' groin.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sat 20 Nov, 2021 11:29 am
@theMadOne,
theMadOne wrote:

Is anyone going to answer the topic question?????


Are you?
theMadOne
 
  -2  
Sat 20 Nov, 2021 11:37 am
@Frank Apisa,
"Son" is a very easy word to understand- until the churches get a hold on it!
theMadOne
 
  -2  
Sat 20 Nov, 2021 11:39 am
@theMadOne,
Jesus has been the one born/created/ made by Jehovah.
He used to son to create all others things.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Sat 20 Nov, 2021 11:03 pm
@Leadfoot,
Yeah, it's self-refuting precisely because while me believing knowledge is probably impossible would probably be a workable assumption, his stance is more similar to "I know that it is impossible for you to know anything." No only is this demeaning to make that kinda of assertion for other people, but it's kinda pushing against bother sides. you either:
1. Believe knowledge is impossible, and make no claims in regards to other people (after all, if knowing is impossible, neither can you make any clear statement about other ppl and their beliefs)
2. Believe knowledge is possible but be unsure or indifferent about the answers. While this is also ignorant, from a logical standpoint, it at lead makes sense.

Otherwise, this feels like a copout.

Look man, if you want to avoid debating religion, I'm happy to oblige. There's bo sense in this exercise of telling other people their beliefs aren't true to them., then trying to convince them of it.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Sat 20 Nov, 2021 11:21 pm
@Frank Apisa,
The only possible reasoning that I can think of is that you say we can't know to try to talk me out of my faith.
It's a classic great lie. You tell it over and over again, hoping people will believe it. But who are you really trying to fool here?

Yes, I have on occasion asserted that belief is largely opinion. But I'd hardly come to the conclusion that other ppl are just guessing.

So if you're not trying to deceive me, this serves as a sort of screen, a wall of indifference behind which you can hide the fact that you probably don't have a good grasp on theology. Basically "I'm not sure so I don't need to know." When extended to other field, this leads to a widspread lack untried knowledge.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Sun 21 Nov, 2021 05:50 am
@bulmabriefs144,
Quote:
Otherwise, this feels like a copout.


There is another POV from which A person can assert Frank's position.
But that one is usually reserved for New Age types: 'I am God'/'We are God'.
Frank tries to assert the same authority but he doesn’t strike me as that kind.
More like the first man on Earth to 'grow up'.

I must confess that I felt that way for awhile after being 'born again'. I didn’t think I was being hubristic at the time either.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sun 21 Nov, 2021 06:49 am
@theMadOne,
theMadOne wrote:

"Son" is a very easy word to understand- until the churches get a hold on it!


I ask again...ARE YOU?

As for "son" being so easy to understand...so is "only begotten son."

And THAT is the subject of the thread.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sun 21 Nov, 2021 06:55 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

Yeah, it's self-refuting precisely because while me believing knowledge is probably impossible would probably be a workable assumption, his stance is more similar to "I know that it is impossible for you to know anything."


No one here has ever said anything like that. Why don't you stop making up ****...and arguing against it? Why don't you actually quote what a person says...and argue against that?

Quote:
No only is this demeaning to make that kinda of assertion for other people, but it's kinda pushing against bother sides. you either:
1. Believe knowledge is impossible, and make no claims in regards to other people (after all, if knowing is impossible, neither can you make any clear statement about other ppl and their beliefs)
2. Believe knowledge is possible but be unsure or indifferent about the answers. While this is also ignorant, from a logical standpoint, it at lead makes sense.

Otherwise, this feels like a copout.

Look man, if you want to avoid debating religion, I'm happy to oblige. There's bo sense in this exercise of telling other people their beliefs aren't true to them., then trying to convince them of it.


No one is telling you, or anyone else, that their "beliefs" are not true to them...whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.

Quote what someone says...and respond to what they write...rather than to the constant lies you make up.

C'mon. Try a bit of integrity. It won't hurt.

AND...the great thing for you is...you can still have a bit of integrity even if you are not especially bright and totally nuts.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Sun 21 Nov, 2021 07:01 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

The only possible reasoning that I can think of is that you say we can't know to try to talk me out of my faith.


I am not trying to talk you out of your "faith." Make all the blind guesses you want...and insist on them.

Quote:
It's a classic great lie. You tell it over and over again, hoping people will believe it. But who are you really trying to fool here?


What am I writing that is a lie?

You have made a blind guess that there is a god; that the god is described in the Bible; that the god is pleased by certain things and offended by other things...

...and I have stated several times that your blind guess may be correct.

They also may be totally wrong.

No lies there.



Quote:
Yes, I have on occasion asserted that belief is largely opinion. But I'd hardly come to the conclusion that other ppl are just guessing.


You can come to whatever conclusion you want.

Quote something I have said and explain why you think it is a lie. Or STFU.

Quote:
So if you're not trying to deceive me, this serves as a sort of screen, a wall of indifference behind which you can hide the fact that you probably don't have a good grasp on theology. Basically "I'm not sure so I don't need to know." When extended to other field, this leads to a widspread lack untried knowledge.


I am almost certainly a LOT more knowledgeable about theology than you. If you want to kid yourself into thinking you are more knowledgeable than I in that area...fine with me. In fact, I get a laugh out of it.

Wink
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Sun 21 Nov, 2021 07:37 am
@Leadfoot,
Did you ever consider: G*D made us in His image so that G*d would always be around us?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Sun 21 Nov, 2021 08:39 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
Did you ever consider: G*D made us in His image so that G*d would always be around us?

Yes, figuratively speaking. And then only if you recognize it.

But face facts. God is not currently among us.

Until then, we have only the Holy Spirit.

It’s kind of like the Internet, it’s not the real thing but I don’t know what I’d do without it for now.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Sun 21 Nov, 2021 09:36 pm
@Frank Apisa,
If this were the case, does it make any sense that you would frequently be responding specifically to my posts.

You may say "I am not trying to talk you out of..." but it's "as if trying to talk out of... " that is the more important sentiment. If it would seem as if that were the case to any reasoning person looking from the outside, you should probably move on.

When I don't feel like my beliefs are respected, telling me "Cmon man, you're just imagining things" is no good.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Sun 21 Nov, 2021 11:24 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I am almost certainly a LOT more knowledgeable about theology than you. If you want to kid yourself into thinking you are more knowledgeable than I in that area...fine with me. In fact, I get a laugh out of it.


Oh? I minored in world religion (largely because I thought history was a good foundation), learning everything from Christian theology to Buddhist beliefs. I also compiled my own religious text and have written a few books on Amazon. I revised said books whenever something didn't work theologically. I constantly questioned my own beliefs, refusing to settle for what some book, some expert, or some guru said. I feel like you have never questioned anything in your life. My seeking was real agnosticism, and my search led me straight to the faith I hold today. You barely understand Heaven and Hell, and how Jesus fits into all this, yet you tell me you know more of theology? You declare you "grew up" but the childish things the Bible refers to is this exact mentality.

Quote:
Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.


Today is Christ The King Sunday, where we recognize the kingship of Christ, that God is in fact in control here. Not us.

God gave us many religions. Why? To tempt us with false faiths so he could send us to hell? Try again! Neither should God be compared to a tyrant. So what does it mean that God is in control? Just the opposite of what you'd think! Jesus compares the rulers of this world to wicked tenants. People who have been given free will but instead use it to control or oppress others. Think of Puritans burning wirches and you have a pretty good idea. People thinking they are righteous don't go around bothering other people.

It's not totally doing whatever you want either. Because to quote a childhood friend who was seriously messed up (I don't choose friends well), sometimes what you want involves things that get you arrested. He kinda did it anyway though...

We think there is a sort a reward/pumisment thing and that there's good people over here and bad people over there. But in person, they're both alike. The "religious" person paints themselves as good while they moralize others. The nonreligious person pretends they are "free" or "tolerant" yet they usher in the worst sort of government. Are you aware that the US now indeed is #1 in something? Taxes. Our taxes are set to become close to 57% for the wealthy.

This is wicked. All of it.

God wants us to love each other, and failing that, to just **** off and not try to rule over each other.

Quote:
Samuel had two sons. The older one was Joel, and the younger one was Abijah. When Samuel was getting old, he let them be leaders at Beersheba. 3 But they were not like their father. They were dishonest and accepted bribes to give unfair decisions.

4 One day the nation’s leaders came to Samuel at Ramah 5 and said, “You are an old man. You set a good example for your sons, but they haven’t followed it. Now we want a king to be our leader, just like all the other nations. Choose one for us!”

6 Samuel was upset to hear the leaders say they wanted a king, so he prayed about it. 7 The Lord answered:

Samuel, do everything they want you to do. I am really the one they have rejected as their king. 8 Ever since the day I rescued my people from Egypt, they have turned from me to worship idols. Now they are turning away from you. 9 Do everything they ask, but warn them and tell them how a king will treat them.

10 Samuel told the people who were asking for a king what the Lord had said:

11 If you have a king, this is how he will treat you. He will force your sons to join his army. Some of them will ride in his chariots, some will serve in the cavalry, and others will run ahead of his own chariot. 12 Some of them will be officers in charge of a thousand soldiers, and others will be in charge of fifty. Still others will have to farm the king’s land and harvest his crops, or make weapons and parts for his chariots. 13 Your daughters will have to make perfume or do his cooking and baking.

14 The king will take your best fields, as well as your vineyards, and olive orchards and give them to his own officials. 15 He will also take a tenth of your grain and grapes and give it to his officers and officials.

16 The king will take your slaves and your best young men and your donkeys and make them do his work. 17 He will also take a tenth of your sheep and goats. You will become the king’s slaves, 18 and you will finally cry out for the Lord to save you from the king you wanted. But the Lord won’t answer your prayers.

19-20 The people would not listen to Samuel. “No!” they said. “We want to be like other nations. We want a king to rule us and lead us in battle.”

21 Samuel listened to them and then told the Lord exactly what they had said. 22 “Do what they want,” the Lord answered. “Give them a king.”


You see, the wicked have been like this since the earliest points of history. Revelation tells of the fall of all these systems, basically we get a millennium where the very worst government, where people won't **** off as I put it, but everyone snoops in private lives. This system is doomed to get worse and worse until even people like you are like "Enough!" The atheists oppose God because they think it will interfere with their fun. But serving God is actually more free than opposing him. Need proof? Read about the histort of the Nazis, Communists, and other atheist states in the 20th and 21st century. Or don't.

Here's why I know more about theology than you. Because I understand the actual purpose of religion. You clearly don't.

Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Mon 22 Nov, 2021 07:17 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

If this were the case, does it make any sense that you would frequently be responding specifically to my posts.


If what is the case?

Can you not learn to be coherent?

Quote:
You may say "I am not trying to talk you out of..." but it's "as if trying to talk out of... " that is the more important sentiment. If it would seem as if that were the case to any reasoning person looking from the outside, you should probably move on.


I do not know what you are talking about here. I suspect...neither do you.

Quote:
When I don't feel like my beliefs are respected, telling me "Cmon man, you're just imagining things" is no good.


Why should I "respect" your blind guesses?

Do you think I should respect your blind guesses because you call them "beliefs?"
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Mon 22 Nov, 2021 07:27 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:


Quote:
I am almost certainly a LOT more knowledgeable about theology than you. If you want to kid yourself into thinking you are more knowledgeable than I in that area...fine with me. In fact, I get a laugh out of it.


Oh? I minored in world religion (largely because I thought history was a good foundation), learning everything from Christian theology to Buddhist beliefs.


I graduated from a Lutheran College that required a major in Religion/Philosophy...as well as a regular major (Economics)...so your minor in world religion is laughable.

Also, it is apparently from your writing skills (lack of them) that you are not especially bright...so for you to think your abilities in religion are better than mine are a joke.

Be that as it may...you are an amusing little lad...and I thank you for that.

Quote:
I also compiled my own religious text and have written a few books on Amazon.


Anyone with a few bucks can write "a book on Amazon."

Did any sell to non-friends for over 99 cents?

Did any ever sell...or were they offered for free?

Be honest, now. Your god probably does not like liars.


Quote:
I revised said books whenever something didn't work theologically. I constantly questioned my own beliefs, refusing to settle for what some book, some expert, or some guru said. I feel like you have never questioned anything in your life. My seeking was real agnosticism, and my search led me straight to the faith I hold today. You barely understand Heaven and Hell, and how Jesus fits into all this, yet you tell me you know more of theology? You declare you "grew up" but the childish things the Bible refers to is this exact mentality.

Quote:
Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.


Today is Christ The King Sunday, where we recognize the kingship of Christ, that God is in fact in control here. Not us.

God gave us many religions. Why? To tempt us with false faiths so he could send us to hell? Try again! Neither should God be compared to a tyrant. So what does it mean that God is in control? Just the opposite of what you'd think! Jesus compares the rulers of this world to wicked tenants. People who have been given free will but instead use it to control or oppress others. Think of Puritans burning wirches and you have a pretty good idea. People thinking they are righteous don't go around bothering other people.

It's not totally doing whatever you want either. Because to quote a childhood friend who was seriously messed up (I don't choose friends well), sometimes what you want involves things that get you arrested. He kinda did it anyway though...

We think there is a sort a reward/pumisment thing and that there's good people over here and bad people over there. But in person, they're both alike. The "religious" person paints themselves as good while they moralize others. The nonreligious person pretends they are "free" or "tolerant" yet they usher in the worst sort of government. Are you aware that the US now indeed is #1 in something? Taxes. Our taxes are set to become close to 57% for the wealthy.

This is wicked. All of it.

God wants us to love each other, and failing that, to just **** off and not try to rule over each other.

Quote:
Samuel had two sons. The older one was Joel, and the younger one was Abijah. When Samuel was getting old, he let them be leaders at Beersheba. 3 But they were not like their father. They were dishonest and accepted bribes to give unfair decisions.

4 One day the nation’s leaders came to Samuel at Ramah 5 and said, “You are an old man. You set a good example for your sons, but they haven’t followed it. Now we want a king to be our leader, just like all the other nations. Choose one for us!”

6 Samuel was upset to hear the leaders say they wanted a king, so he prayed about it. 7 The Lord answered:

Samuel, do everything they want you to do. I am really the one they have rejected as their king. 8 Ever since the day I rescued my people from Egypt, they have turned from me to worship idols. Now they are turning away from you. 9 Do everything they ask, but warn them and tell them how a king will treat them.

10 Samuel told the people who were asking for a king what the Lord had said:

11 If you have a king, this is how he will treat you. He will force your sons to join his army. Some of them will ride in his chariots, some will serve in the cavalry, and others will run ahead of his own chariot. 12 Some of them will be officers in charge of a thousand soldiers, and others will be in charge of fifty. Still others will have to farm the king’s land and harvest his crops, or make weapons and parts for his chariots. 13 Your daughters will have to make perfume or do his cooking and baking.

14 The king will take your best fields, as well as your vineyards, and olive orchards and give them to his own officials. 15 He will also take a tenth of your grain and grapes and give it to his officers and officials.

16 The king will take your slaves and your best young men and your donkeys and make them do his work. 17 He will also take a tenth of your sheep and goats. You will become the king’s slaves, 18 and you will finally cry out for the Lord to save you from the king you wanted. But the Lord won’t answer your prayers.

19-20 The people would not listen to Samuel. “No!” they said. “We want to be like other nations. We want a king to rule us and lead us in battle.”

21 Samuel listened to them and then told the Lord exactly what they had said. 22 “Do what they want,” the Lord answered. “Give them a king.”


You see, the wicked have been like this since the earliest points of history. Revelation tells of the fall of all these systems, basically we get a millennium where the very worst government, where people won't **** off as I put it, but everyone snoops in private lives. This system is doomed to get worse and worse until even people like you are like "Enough!" The atheists oppose God because they think it will interfere with their fun. But serving God is actually more free than opposing him. Need proof? Read about the histort of the Nazis, Communists, and other atheist states in the 20th and 21st century. Or don't.

Here's why I know more about theology than you. Because I understand the actual purpose of religion. You clearly don't.


You poor bastard, I am starting to feel pity for you again.

Brings tears to my eyes.

https://c.tenor.com/5vKnZA8IzwIAAAAM/ray-liotta-laughing.gif
 

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