If Jesus is God, how is he called God's only begotten son?

@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

. . . Why was He crucified ? . . .

In order for mankind to be restored, a perfect human had to give his life as a substitute for Adam. The torture and humiliation was Satan's idea.

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You know whats always bothered me about the "resurrection"? If Jesus could be "resurrected", why was there a need to have the stone rolled away? Why couldnt he go right thru the cave? I mean the guy walked on water didnt he?

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@giujohn,

Two women showed up first. How else would they know what happened?

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Question: If Jesus is not God explain for my ignorance the following two scriptures:

Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

If Jesus is not God then why did Isaiah say that the child that would be born would be the Everlasting Father? He did not say the son of God He said THE Everlasting Father.

You all say that the son and the father are two different persons...how then is Jesus called the "Everlasting Father"?

1 Timothy 3:16:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angles, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

Who did Paul say was manifest in the flesh? He says God. Who was Jesus? It says God was seen of angles--how is this possible when the scripture emphatically says that no one has seen God (Father) at any time? Who was preached unto the Gentiles in Acts 10 chapter? Peter preached Jesus just for the record. Who was believed on in the world? Paul said God--did Jesus not say you must believe in me if you want to see the Father? Who was received up into glory in Luke 24:51?

The scripture is clear--when it speaks of the son of man it is talking about Jesus' flesh; when it speaks about the son of God it is talking about His deity. When Jesus talks of His Father, the flesh is speaking of the Eternal Spirit of God that dwelled in Him. When Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit or the Holy Ghost He is referring to a small portion of the Father that will in dwell the human body--that is you if you will received His spirit into your heart. Now how hard is that to grasp? You say you believe in one God but yet you really don't believe that Jesus is the ONE true and living God. You believe he is a demigod or a secondary God. Jesus said that ALL power in heaven and in earth was given unto Him. How is this possible if He were not God? ALL means there is nothing left for anyone else.

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@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

.... If Jesus is not God then why did Isaiah say that the child that would be born would be the Everlasting Father? He did not say the son of God He said THE Everlasting Father.

You all say that the son and the father are two different persons...how then is Jesus called the "Everlasting Father"?

By his propitiatory sacrifice, Jesus adopted the entire race of mankind.

worldtraveler24 wrote:

1 Timothy 3:16:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angles, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

Who did Paul say was manifest in the flesh? He says God. Who was Jesus? It says God was seen of angles--how is this possible when the scripture emphatically says that no one has seen God (Father) at any time? Who was preached unto the Gentiles in Acts 10 chapter? Peter preached Jesus just for the record. Who was believed on in the world? Paul said God--did Jesus not say you must believe in me if you want to see the Father? Who was received up into glory in Luke 24:51?

The scripture is clear--when it speaks of the son of man it is talking about Jesus' flesh; when it speaks about the son of God it is talking about His deity. When Jesus talks of His Father, the flesh is speaking of the Eternal Spirit of God that dwelled in Him. When Jesus speaks of the Holy Spirit or the Holy Ghost He is referring to a small portion of the Father that will in dwell the human body--that is you if you will received His spirit into your heart. Now how hard is that to grasp? You say you believe in one God but yet you really don't believe that Jesus is the ONE true and living God. You believe he is a demigod or a secondary God. Jesus said that ALL power in heaven and in earth was given unto Him. How is this possible if He were not God? ALL means there is nothing left for anyone else.

Don't forget the KJV was translated by trinitarians. Here is the American Standard Version:

Quote:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Makes a lot more sense. You will find similar renditions in many other translations.

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@neologist,

I know you are correct on the translation by Trinitarians--Even with their translating the KJV you can still find the ONE GOD throughout its pages. Trinitarian belief did not come from the early church--it cam from Tertullian in the second century. The early church knew that Jesus was GOD-that is why they baptized all believers in the Name of Jesus not in the titles father, son and holy ghost. They understood that in Matthew 29:19 Jesus was referring to himself as the Father in creation, the Son in redemption and the Holy Ghost in regeneration. That is why in the book of Acts all baptisms were done in the name of Jesus. The title baptism is not recorded until after the 3rd century.

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@worldtraveler24,

I don't see anything in Matthew 29:19; and in Matthew 28:19 I see no creation, redemption, and regeneration.

You have been fed a massive pile of BS, I'm afraid.

Go back to the event in Genesis which prefigured Jesus' sacrifice. Imagine the anguish Abraham must have felt as he prepared to sacrifice Isaac. Surely, he would have preferred his own death as any loving father would. If you equate Jesus with his father, you devalue the sacrifice.

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@neologist,

I am sure --as it is obvious that you cannot see the death burial and resurrection of Jesus in Matthew 28:19. Jesus had already resurrected from the dead when he told his disciples to go into all of the world and preach the gospel to every creature. Jesus said in verse 18 "All power in heaven and in earth is given unto me. Then he told them to teach all nations baptizing in the NAME of the father, son and holy ghost. If you cannot see the ONE GOD in flesh I don't know what else to tell you.

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@worldtraveler24,

worldtraveler24 wrote:

Jesus said in verse 18 "All power in heaven and in earth is given unto me.

Are you saying he gave the power to himself?

BTW, using the phrase "in the name of" simply means "by the authority of" as "in the name of the law". Why do you assert any special meaning to it in Jesus' words?

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@worldtraveler24,

Can you imagine Jesus teaching his followers to pray and saying. "Hallowed be my name"?

How about, while in the agony of his execution, asking. "Why have I forsaken myself?"

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@neologist,

And, BTW, were he able to resurrect himself, then he did not die

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@neologist,

Well...Jesus could have just presented himself (as he did) to his followers, I think that would have sufficed.
You see I would have been more convinced if the tomb had been guarded by Roman soliders because if they had deserted their post or let the tomb be opened they would have been put to death.
The tomb was guarded by jewish guards and their integrity is highly questionable.

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@giujohn,

You all just don't believe that He rose again of Himself--here in lies the problem. If you were to seek Him with your whole heart He would be found of you. You just cannot get over the fact that Jesus was fully God and fully man. You continue to see Him as a lesser entity with no authority or no power at all. This is troublesome for me. I guess you really do believe in a multiplicity of gods--I just hope you can figure out to whom to pray and to whom to give honor and to whom to worship. I guess you can worship all of your gods as the Greeks did--I just hope they can all save you in the end.

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@worldtraveler24,

I'm a convinced Atheist...I beleive in what I can prove because then I will KNOW.

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@neologist,

neologist wrote:

Don't forget the KJV was translated by trinitarians. Here is the American Standard Version:

Quote:
Quote:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

Makes a lot more sense. You will find similar renditions in many other translations.

Here again, as with some of the other passages that have been discussed in these threads, it isn't so cut and dried.

I depends on the manuscript that the particular translators used in creating their versions of the Bible. This is one passage that varies considerably between manuscripts.

Some manuscripts use the Greek word ὅς, hos meaning "which" rather than "God" or "He" which gives the translation:

"And evidently great is the mystery of godliness, which was manifested in the flesh, was justified in the spirit, appeared unto angels, hath been preached unto the Gentiles, is believed in the world, is taken up in glory."

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@InfraBlue,

Are you arguing in favor of the trinty, or just arguing?

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@neologist,

I'm arguing toward the ambiguity of the Bible.

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@neologist,

Why is argument wrong? After all that is what religion doesn't allow. What is wrong with questioning ??

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@Germlat,

Nothing wrong with argument. Steel sharpens steel. Just sometimes hard for me to figure where blue comes from

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@neologist,

I see your point...I agree with you. The extravagance of argument concerning the subject wasn't something I was ever awarded. Perhaps, I have some baggage ....No questioning was ever allowed. I do enjoy people who allow such oooops behavior.....

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If Jesus is God, how is he called God's only begotten son?

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