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If Jesus is God, how is he called God's only begotten son?

Forums: Trinity, Religion, Spirituality And Religion, Bible, Theology
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RexRed
 
  1  
Wed 22 Mar, 2006 10:25 pm
What is the harm to God if we take away some of his almighty power and give it to Jesus? Will it make us more divine?

Is this the way to worship God is by stepping on his toes?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Wed 22 Mar, 2006 10:32 pm
I tend to think that if the Christians could lose their trinity, the Muslims would embrace Jesus more (because the Muslims "rightly" do not believe Jesus is Allah) If the Jews saw the Muslim and Christian in unity and peace through Jesus, the Jew might begrudgingly accept Jesus as the Christ too... Then there would be unity among these three religions. The unity is in the Bible but the religions have drifted away from it's true meaning.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Wed 22 Mar, 2006 10:43 pm
The bible doesn't teach the trinity. So why don't the muslims form a christian sect?
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Doktor S
 
  1  
Wed 22 Mar, 2006 11:46 pm
Rex,
Quote:

The unity is in the Bible but the religions have drifted away from it's true meaning.

And you, of course, can offer us this true meaning.
Unlike those other guys.
Your truth must be the real truth, right?
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Raul-7
 
  1  
Thu 23 Mar, 2006 01:38 am
RexRed wrote:
What is the harm to God if we take away some of his almighty power and give it to Jesus? Will it make us more divine?

Is this the way to worship God is by stepping on his toes?


You make a very good point, sadly some people can only truly love God is when they can associate someone to him; for example Jesus (PBUH).

And most of them believe in God only when they can attribute partners (to Him). (Surah Yusuf: 106)
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Raul-7
 
  1  
Thu 23 Mar, 2006 01:42 am
Doktor S wrote:
Rex,
Quote:

The unity is in the Bible but the religions have drifted away from it's true meaning.

And you, of course, can offer us this true meaning.
Unlike those other guys.
Your truth must be the real truth, right?


What he means (I think) is that the original message sent down from God has been changed so many times that the true/original meaning has been lost.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Thu 23 Mar, 2006 05:26 pm
Doktor S wrote:
Rex,
Quote:

The unity is in the Bible but the religions have drifted away from it's true meaning.

And you, of course, can offer us this true meaning.
Unlike those other guys.
Your truth must be the real truth, right?


The Trinity is not in the Bible clearly as a Christian doctrine. I can show you the gravest warnings against the Trinity in the Bible (written by the apostles own hands) and the Koran has the same warnings throughout it about idolatry... So are you implying that I should chuck these two books and believe a Trinity that was introduced into Christianity four hundred years after Christ?

I am using logic here not emotion...
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Thu 23 Mar, 2006 07:43 pm
RexRed wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
Rex,
Quote:

The unity is in the Bible but the religions have drifted away from it's true meaning.

And you, of course, can offer us this true meaning.
Unlike those other guys.
Your truth must be the real truth, right?


The Trinity is not in the Bible clearly as a Christian doctrine. I can show you the gravest warnings against the Trinity in the Bible (written by the apostles own hands) and the Koran has the same warnings throughout it about idolatry... So are you implying that I should chuck these two books and believe a Trinity that was introduced into Christianity four hundred years after Christ?

I am using logic here not emotion...

No, I simply find it amusing how many of you religionists seem to have the real truth about biblical interpretation.
So many different real truths..oh my!
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Thu 23 Mar, 2006 08:11 pm
Doktor S wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
Rex,
Quote:

The unity is in the Bible but the religions have drifted away from it's true meaning.

And you, of course, can offer us this true meaning.
Unlike those other guys.
Your truth must be the real truth, right?


The Trinity is not in the Bible clearly as a Christian doctrine. I can show you the gravest warnings against the Trinity in the Bible (written by the apostles own hands) and the Koran has the same warnings throughout it about idolatry... So are you implying that I should chuck these two books and believe a Trinity that was introduced into Christianity four hundred years after Christ?

I am using logic here not emotion...

No, I simply find it amusing how many of you religionists seem to have the real truth about biblical interpretation.
So many different real truths..oh my!


It sounds as if you regret you have not studied enough...
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Wed 14 Jun, 2006 08:29 pm
neologist wrote:
Discreet wrote:
the trinity was set up to help people understand God jesus and the holy spirit and how they are one.

St patrick is famous for using the 3 leaf clover analogy. Saying that there are 3 parts but they are still one thing.

God is the creator Jesus is the forgiver and the holy spirit is what lives in every individual a strive for a higher power if you will.

The concept of the trinity existed in pagan religions long before it was adopted into nominal christianity. It obscures the true value of Jesus' sacrifice - what it meant to God - and what it meant to Jesus, a seperate individual. I appreciate your signature.


Actually the concept of a multile being God goes all the way back to Genesis, and If as I believe the bible is God's word then all Pagan beliefs are nothing but copies of the truth.
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Wed 14 Jun, 2006 08:31 pm
Doktor S wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
Rex,
Quote:

The unity is in the Bible but the religions have drifted away from it's true meaning.

And you, of course, can offer us this true meaning.
Unlike those other guys.
Your truth must be the real truth, right?


The Trinity is not in the Bible clearly as a Christian doctrine. I can show you the gravest warnings against the Trinity in the Bible (written by the apostles own hands) and the Koran has the same warnings throughout it about idolatry... So are you implying that I should chuck these two books and believe a Trinity that was introduced into Christianity four hundred years after Christ?

I am using logic here not emotion...

No, I simply find it amusing how many of you religionists seem to have the real truth about biblical interpretation.
So many different real truths..oh my!



There is only ONE TRUTH.

And that is JESUS

As he himself said of himself.

I am
THE WAY,
THE TRUTH, and
THE LIFE.
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Wed 14 Jun, 2006 08:32 pm
Discreet wrote:
the trinity was set up to help people understand God jesus and the holy spirit and how they are one.


WHAT?
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Wed 14 Jun, 2006 08:34 pm
Re: If Jesus is God, how is he called God's only begotten so
neologist wrote:
Denying that Jesus is one and the same with God does not deny his divine nature. Please, if you are going to reference scripture, provide chapter and verse.


Yes it does .

God says: I am God and there is no else neither shall there be.

Either Jesus is God.
Or he is not God and did not create a darn thing and therefor is a liar.

Your choice.
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Wed 14 Jun, 2006 08:36 pm
neologist wrote:
I suppose we should rewrite Matthew 27:46 " Oh me; Oh my; Why have I forsaken myself?"
I wonder. To whom did Jesus pray?
BTW, many bibles render John 1:1 as "the Word was divine."


No he was prayin to the father who is God too.
I am so sick of hearing that question.
If Jesus was God then who was he praying to?
DUH.
The Father.
Who is just as much God as Jesus is.
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Wed 14 Jun, 2006 08:37 pm
SN95 wrote:
I'd also like to know why some find it to be such an important belief.

In the beginning, Christianity did not hold to the Trinity doctrine. That doctrine developed slowly and did not become officially creedal fact until 325 C.E. Nearly 300 years after the presumed time of Jesus' death.



That is not true.
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Wed 14 Jun, 2006 08:39 pm
Re: If Jesus is God, how is he called God's only begotten so
neologist wrote:
The word 'trinity' does not appear in the bible. Why is it such an important belief? Question


Because there can only be one Lord.
one God.
one Saviour.

and the LORD (Jehovah) says in the OT that it is he who is the saviour, but the NT presents Jesus as the Saviour or the world.

LOGIC therefor dictates that Jesus has to be Jehovah to even be the Saviour of the world.
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Wed 14 Jun, 2006 08:49 pm
agrote wrote:
So God has three names? If Christians are truly monotheists, then Father = Holy Spirit = Jesus Christ. If so, anything that applies to one must apply to the other. Jesus suffers for our sins, so the Father must suffer for our sins. But the Father doesn't suffer for our sins, how do you explain that?


So your saying a father doesnt suffer when his child dies in a car wreak then either.???????

So your saying a father doesnt care when his son is hurt and dying on the operating table.??????

So your saying that SOMETHING LIKE THE the father feeling what the son is feeling is IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD???

According to the bible. Nothing is impossible for God. NOTHING.

SO yes WHile Jesus the Son suffered, so did the father, and the Holy Spirit.

LOGIC dictates that had to happen.
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Wed 14 Jun, 2006 08:51 pm
Derevon wrote:
Neologist,

There isn't anything in Colossians 1:15-17 that contradicts that the Son dwells in the Father, and the Father in the Son. If you believe so, you misinterpret what "He is the image of the invisible God" signifies. It means simply that He is the visible manifestation of the invisible God. It doesn't say that He is created in the image of the invisible God (i.e. a copy of God), but that He is the image itself.


Very nicely said and done. Could I use this quote in something that I am writing up.
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Wed 14 Jun, 2006 08:58 pm
neologist wrote:
You did well. My own bible reads "Let all God's angels do obeisance to him", which is essentially the same thing, so I stand corrected. I'm still not buying an identity between Jesus and God. In fact the very sentence negates the assertion of co-eternal.

I must say I am enjoying this discourse. As Solomon said in Proverbs 27:17, "By iron, iron itself is sharpened. So one man sharpens the face of another."


That is not what it says my friend.
Here you go.

Pro 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

These two verses clearly show how bad the new bibles are.

That verse you quoted has words added that don't even exist in the original manuscripts. Its the same problem you get when you run into John 1:1 that bible just has to go and add an "a" in there where there is no "a".

John 1:1 Reads.
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
This is MONOTHEISM


NOT AS
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a God.
This is POLYTHEISM

See the difference yet.????
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Wed 14 Jun, 2006 09:06 pm
agrote wrote:
Derevon wrote:
You don't think the Son's suffering also makes the Father suffer? What father would not suffer if his dearly beloved son was suffering?


This doesn't solve the problem - the father would have to suffer in the same ways as the son for them to be equal. Let's try a more obvious example:

The Father = The Son,
The Son died for our sins,
The Father did not die for our sins,
Therefore, The Father does not equal The Son.

Bit of a problem there. Either (Father = Son = HS) or not-(Father = Son = HS). Which will it be?


No no no no you got it all wrong.
Father + Son + Holy Spirit = God.
Father = God
Son = God
Holy Spirit = God.

Not Father = Son = HS. (<<----- plus that is close to blasphemy using HS by the way.)
0 Replies
 
 

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