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If Jesus is God, how is he called God's only begotten son?

 
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Tue 2 Aug, 2005 08:10 pm
Hi Real Life and Neo,

Well, I have to admit, you two debate very well. It's so much easier to understand what is trying to be said when all the animosity is left out.

Ok, this is my take on the trinity. I believe in the God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Three yet one. And by far, I think this is the hardest thing to explain considering the Bible. I understand it for myself, but to try to articulate it is quite hard to do.

There is God. God sent His son in human form (so that we could understand and look upon Him.) God the Holy Spirit is what lives within us once we accept Christ as our savior.

Neo, I told you before I had questions about J.W. So, here is my first one. Can you tell me exactly what you have to believe/do/etc., to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven? I know you don't believe in the concept of hell, as you have told me, so what happens to the non-believers in the end times?

I have to admit I know next to nothing of your faith, but I have learned a lot from you thus far.

Thanx!

Momma Angel
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Tue 2 Aug, 2005 10:12 pm
The kingdom is a real government as mentioned in Daniel 2:44. It is based in heaven as we are told in the book of Revelation. There are those taken from the earth who are ". . . made . . . to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth." (Revelation 5:10) The earth they rule over will be peopled by descendants of Adam and Eve in the manner promised in the Garden of Eden when Jehovah told them to 'be fruitful and become many and fill the earth.'

There is no real difference between those taken to heaven and those remaining on earth in terms of their faith or qualifications, if you will. Jesus himself said about John the baptist: "Truly I say to YOU people, Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is." (Matthew 11:11)

Those who never knew God, including many of those who knew of God but not in truth, have been promised a resurrection in John 5:28,29. There they will be judged according to their deeds committed after they have learned the truth.

I personally have no interest in or hope for heavenly life. I hope to live on earth, providing I endure to the best of my ability.

There's more to it, of course. But that's the short answer.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Tue 2 Aug, 2005 10:26 pm
Thanx Neo. I appreciate you explaining it to me!
0 Replies
 
shiyacic aleksandar
 
  1  
Wed 3 Aug, 2005 03:41 am
When all the doors will close themselves to you only then the door of the higher life will be open to you.
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RexRed
 
  1  
Wed 3 Aug, 2005 06:56 pm
Jesus Christ our passover... Smile
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shiyacic aleksandar
 
  1  
Thu 4 Aug, 2005 03:51 am
Jesus first
Others next
Yourself last

=JOY Very Happy
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Thu 4 Aug, 2005 08:07 pm
shiyacic aleksandar wrote:
Jesus first
Others next
Yourself last

=JOY Very Happy


Mt 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

1Co 15:28
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him[God] that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Thu 4 Aug, 2005 08:13 pm
And the point is . . ?
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Thu 4 Aug, 2005 08:43 pm
neologist wrote:
The kingdom is a real government as mentioned in Daniel 2:44. It is based in heaven as we are told in the book of Revelation. There are those taken from the earth who are ". . . made . . . to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth." (Revelation 5:10) The earth they rule over will be peopled by descendants of Adam and Eve in the manner promised in the Garden of Eden when Jehovah told them to 'be fruitful and become many and fill the earth.'

There is no real difference between those taken to heaven and those remaining on earth in terms of their faith or qualifications, if you will. Jesus himself said about John the baptist: "Truly I say to YOU people, Among those born of women there has not been raised up a greater than John the Baptist; but a person that is a lesser one in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is." (Matthew 11:11)

Those who never knew God, including many of those who knew of God but not in truth, have been promised a resurrection in John 5:28,29. There they will be judged according to their deeds committed after they have learned the truth.

I personally have no interest in or hope for heavenly life. I hope to live on earth, providing I endure to the best of my ability.

There's more to it, of course. But that's the short answer.


I am not so sure that the scripture indicates that there is anything that men will be judged for that has occurred after their death, since the judgment is said to occur at His appearing and for things done in the body. Clearly someone who has died would have to be given ANOTHER body if he was to be judged for things done after his life had ended. This seems to violate the sense of the topic being discussed (this present life and it's consequences are the emphasis).

Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

2 Tim 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

2 Cor 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

BTW these verses are also interesting from the standpoint of the discussion of Christ's Deity as well because they picture the appearance of all before the "judgment seat of Christ" and those being judged "standing before God" and being judged out of the Book of Life, which is also called the "Lamb's Book of Life." (Rev 21:27)
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Thu 4 Aug, 2005 08:48 pm
neologist wrote:
And the point is . . ?


The point is to seek God first not the son of God...
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Thu 4 Aug, 2005 09:13 pm
But none can get to the father except through me, Jesus said.
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neologist
 
  1  
Thu 4 Aug, 2005 09:16 pm
real life wrote:

I am not so sure that the scripture indicates that there is anything that men will be judged for that has occurred after their death, since the judgment is said to occur at His appearing and for things done in the body. Clearly someone who has died would have to be given ANOTHER body if he was to be judged for things done after his life had ended. This seems to violate the sense of the topic being discussed (this present life and it's consequences are the emphasis)
There would be no point in resurrecting someone only to judge him for his prior deeds, would it? He has paid for his sins by his death.

You can't escape the fact that the earth was meant to be inhabited. And a god of mercy would not condemn individuals solely because the political and religious powers in force during his life prevented him from knowing God. Or would He?

As for being resurrected in another body, would that be impossible for God?

This was in response to a question by Ma. Sorry if it brought you off topic.
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neologist
 
  1  
Thu 4 Aug, 2005 09:23 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
But none can get to the father except through me, Jesus said.
Right, but the end result is to please the father, not the son or the holy spirit.

It really is a big stretch after you have mentally digested the fact that Jesus is the perfect representative and representation of his father, to assign them the same identity.
You are left with considerable bobbing and weaving to explain
To whom did Jesus pray?
Who resurrected Jesus?
Whom did Jesus obey?

What did Jesus mean when he said
The Father is greater than I, or
I came to do the will of Him that sent me

etc.
etc., etc.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Thu 4 Aug, 2005 10:14 pm
neologist wrote:
real life wrote:

I am not so sure that the scripture indicates that there is anything that men will be judged for that has occurred after their death, since the judgment is said to occur at His appearing and for things done in the body. Clearly someone who has died would have to be given ANOTHER body if he was to be judged for things done after his life had ended. This seems to violate the sense of the topic being discussed (this present life and it's consequences are the emphasis)
There would be no point in resurrecting someone only to judge him for his prior deeds, would it? He has paid for his sins by his death.

You can't escape the fact that the earth was meant to be inhabited. And a god of mercy would not condemn individuals solely because the political and religious powers in force during his life prevented him from knowing God. Or would He?

As for being resurrected in another body, would that be impossible for God?

This was in response to a question by Ma. Sorry if it brought you off topic.


If each of us pays the penalty for our sins by our own death, then why did Christ come to die?

God COULD resurrect a man as many times as He wished in as many bodies as He wished. That is not the point. What did God say He WOULD do? He would judge man after his death for deeds the man did while in the body. According to the Bible, this is to be done at Christ's coming, not after some period of life on earth afterward.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Thu 4 Aug, 2005 10:25 pm
neologist wrote:
Momma Angel wrote:
But none can get to the father except through me, Jesus said.
Right, but the end result is to please the father, not the son or the holy spirit.


Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ

neologist wrote:
It really is a big stretch after you have mentally digested the fact that Jesus is the perfect representative and representation of his father, to assign them the same identity.
You are left with considerable bobbing and weaving to explain
To whom did Jesus pray?
Who resurrected Jesus?
Whom did Jesus obey?

What did Jesus mean when he said
The Father is greater than I, or
I came to do the will of Him that sent me

etc.
etc., etc.


As we have discussed each of these previously, I will not rehash them except to note that your entire objection comes down to "Can I understand 'X' from the Bible ? "

And if the answer is negative, somehow that invalidates the matter?

Why?

Why is God's statement of what He did subject to our understanding? He has told us that His ways are not our ways, nor His thoughts our thoughts. He has cautioned us that we see through a glass darkly.

Somehow our pride always seems to get the upper hand and assert that if we cannot reconcile a thing with our mental ability, then it must not be so.
0 Replies
 
shiyacic aleksandar
 
  1  
Fri 5 Aug, 2005 03:42 am
Momma Angel wrote:
But none can get to the father except through me, Jesus said.

But none can get to the father except through Me,J. saiD

Who is "Me"
"Me" is the divine Soul with whom Jesus was totally identified. Razz
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shiyacic aleksandar
 
  1  
Fri 5 Aug, 2005 03:44 am
RexRed wrote:
neologist wrote:
And the point is . . ?


The point is to seek God first not the son of God...


Yes, first have Faith then the experience(Lords Grace) is granted! :wink:
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neologist
 
  1  
Fri 5 Aug, 2005 09:13 am
real life wrote:
If each of us pays the penalty for our sins by our own death, then why did Christ come to die?
"For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)
real life wrote:
God COULD resurrect a man as many times as He wished in as many bodies as He wished. That is not the point. What did God say He WOULD do? He would judge man after his death for deeds the man did while in the body. According to the Bible, this is to be done at Christ's coming, not after some period of life on earth afterward.
Please explain the wording of the red text.

BTW, Christ's parousia is hardly a one day event.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Fri 5 Aug, 2005 05:27 pm
neologist wrote:
real life wrote:
If each of us pays the penalty for our sins by our own death, then why did Christ come to die?
"For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)
real life wrote:
God COULD resurrect a man as many times as He wished in as many bodies as He wished. That is not the point. What did God say He WOULD do? He would judge man after his death for deeds the man did while in the body. According to the Bible, this is to be done at Christ's coming, not after some period of life on earth afterward.
Please explain the wording of the red text.

BTW, Christ's parousia is hardly a one day event.


True not a one day event; Christ's parousia takes place "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye". (1 Cor 15)

The deeds done in the body are those done while the person lived. When he dies , his body decays. God would have to give him ANOTHER body to live on the earth and later be judged according to your scenario. If he is judged unworthy and disobedient to God , what happens to him then? Does he die a second time ? It is appointed to man once to die and then the judgment.

Again my question, if the sinners own death pays the penalty for his sin, why did Christ die? Obviously men die as a result of sin. But that does not pay the penalty for their sin, it is simply one of many bad consequences that he reaps as a result of sin.
0 Replies
 
shiyacic aleksandar
 
  1  
Mon 8 Aug, 2005 04:43 am
Jesus died on the cross to become Immortal and for the lesson to humanity:
Self sacrifice is needed in conjunction with Love!
:wink:
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