How (and when) will the Government Shutdown end?

@revelette1,

Quote:

Democrats do have the advantage of having control of one branch of government

No, they control one half of the Legislative branch. Civics 101.

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@revelette1,

Revelette, If the Democrats hold on until Trump capitulates... will that change the way you vote in 2020?

I assume that you will still vote... and that you will vote for the Democratic candidates. Am I wrong? Same question for you Farmerman.

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@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

They ARE. Are you listening. They. Want. To. Reopen. The. Government. Using. The. Same. Funding. Bill. The. Republicans. Passed. In. December.
That's all that they're arguing FOR.
Pelosi has literally passed and sent 7-10 bills to the Congress detailing exactly what Democrats want right now. It's identical to what McConnell passed to Ryan in December.

That's not an offer for the wall. That's a refusal to make an offer for the wall -- the exact opposite of what I am suggesting that Democrats do.

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@maporsche,

Quote:

[All Trump] had to do was accept a 10- to 14-year path to citizenship for children of undocumented immigrants brought to the United States at a young age.
That deal has been on the table for more than a month now: Trump gives Democrats a path to citizenship for 1.8 million Dreamers; Democrats give Trump his full $25 billion wall funding request. […]
It is confounding that Trump didn’t just take the deal.

If that's what the Democrats want in exchange for the wall, then they should hammer on that offer instead of refusing to make any deal at all.

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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

The answer is for the Senate to vote on a House bill and let the process work. The President has the option to veto it, Congress can try to override.

The answer is for Republican senators to help Democrats attack a Republican president?

I don't think very many Republicans will agree that that is the answer.

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@oralloy,

I thought the Mexicans were gonna pay for the wall. What hoppend that?
Is this president truthful on anything??

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@farmerman,

Quote:

I thought the Mexicans were gonna pay for the wall.

The wall will pay for itself in less than 3 months after it reduces the aid we give to illegals that simply won't be here. We spend over 100 billion a year on illegals, the wall is what? 25 billion?

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

I thought the Mexicans were gonna pay for the wall. What hoppend that?

I think they refused.

farmerman wrote:

Is this president truthful on anything??

Should he be? Since the media lies about him, why can't he lie back?

And if leftists were not whitewashing Barack Obama's lies, his stack of lies might just exceed Trump's.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

Should he be? Since the media lies about him, why can't he lie back?

He has played their games better than them since day 1 of his administration.

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@coldjoint,

coldjoint wrote:

Quote:
Should he be? Since the media lies about him, why can't he lie back?

He has played their games better than them since day 1 of his administration.

That is why he is killing it the polls, shut down the Mueller investigation, and built a wall without so much as a day of government shutdown.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

That is why he is killing it the polls

His popularity is on par with Obama's and more consistent than Obama's.

Quote:

shut down the Mueller investigation, and built a wall without so much as a day of government shutdown.

He has not done neither of those things yet, he will get around to it.

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@maxdancona,

Of course I am going to vote and I will vote democrat, no question or doubt about it. I have never been a one issue voter and I am not going to start now. It is those who swing this way and that whose opinions matters when it comes to how these issues affect the public opinion.

1 Reply

@revelette1,

revelette1 wrote:

Of course I am going to vote and I will vote democrat, no question or doubt about it. I have never been a one issue voter and I am not going to start now. It is those who swing this way and that whose opinions matters when it comes to how these issues affect the public opinion.

That's my point.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

The Republicans are going to feel the most pressure, and when it cracks I am pretty sure it will start with Senate Republicans.

And if the Republicans don't crack, and they refuse to back down?

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

And if the Republicans don't crack, and they refuse to back down?

They will. The longer the shutdown goes, the pressure is ramping up on the Republicans far more than on the Democrats.

When airports start shutting down and the economy starts being damage... the Republican base (that is the business wing, not the White working class wing) will make sure they give in. Republican politicians have to listen to the people with the money... when they decide enough (and they start getting hurt) you will see a quick resolution.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

Republican politicians have to listen to the people with the money...

And Democrats don't? Stop trying to lie about something everyone knows is bipartisan.

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@coldjoint,

You are not listening... I said that Republicans are feeling more pressure than the Democrats. Of course, Democrats also listen to people with money (although Democrats play a different game).

The reasons that Democrats have the upper hand in this battle, and the Republican will crack first are:

1) The Democrats have the simpler message "reopen the government now with no strings attached, and then negotiate without the shutdown as leverage.".

2) The public largely blames Trump. We can argue about why this is and whether it is fair or the medias fault or because he is an idiot.. it really doesn't matter. It is a fact that the public is blaming Trump.

3) The consequences are going to start hitting conservative constituencies. Yes, there are liberal Federal workers... but their leverage is to not show up for work namely the TSA workers). The farmers, the manufacturing base and Wall Street are all going to be hit hard. These consequences will hit conservative constituencies... including rich people. The blame will fall on Republicans more than Democrats.

The Democrats have a clear message.... Open the government now and then negotiate a DACA for wall money deal in Congress. The Republicans have no answer that appeals to anyone outside their own base.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote:

The Democrats have the simpler message

What does that tell you about Democratic voters?

Quote:

The public largely blames Trump.

That changes daily. The fact remains his proposal is common sense.

Quote:

The consequences are going to start hitting conservative constituencies.

The consequences of illegal immigration are far worse. Every time an illegal kills someone. Just admit you want to turn the country into a shithole.

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@coldjoint,

I don't want to get into a partisan pissing match with you. My personal political opinions aside, I am just explaining why the Democrats are going to win this one.

Sometimes my side is dealt a losing hand... this isn't one of those times.

Obviously you are going to say you think the Democrats should lose... but rooting for your team isn't the point of this thread.

If you think the Republicans can win this one, I would love to hear that. Make a prediction on how you think this will end and we will see who is right ... hopefully soon.

There will be no wall.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

There will be no wall.

Yes there will or Trump will be reporting every death or rape committed by illegals directly to the people before he quits.

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How (and when) will the Government Shutdown end?

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