How (and when) will the Government Shutdown end?

@maporsche,

Quote:

I think Trump will declare a state of emergency. Open the government. Someone will sue Trump. They'll win in court. No wall will be built. Trump will say "I tried" but couldn't get it done. His people will eat that **** up and blame the democrats (like they would no matter what).

Then I wish he would do it and get it over with.

1 Reply

@revelette1,

Quote:

I think after this, either way, there needs to be a law which addresses the problem of government workers not getting paid.

That would not work out to well for those that use that excuse to push their solution.

0 Replies

@revelette1,

revelette1 wrote:

So you agree, Trump is the one holding Federal employees as hostages for his border wall.

In part. But the Democrats are hostage-takers too.

revelette1 wrote:

The Democrats want the government to open before making any deals.

That's because after the government opens they will be under no more pressure to make a deal.

revelette1 wrote:

I think it is Trump who won't make any deals which include Dreamers and other immigrant issues without the public pressure he rightfully has underneath him right now. If the pressure of the Federal workers is off of him, he has no reason to agree to any budget deal, then we will be right back where we started.

Perhaps.

The Democrats should take advantage of this pressure on Trump and announce that any deal for a wall must have a good (and permanent) fix for DACA.

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@revelette1,

I was wrong about the timing, I thought this would boil over last week.

I am correct about the politics. The Republicans are going to feel the most pressure, and when it cracks I am pretty sure it will start with Senate Republicans.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

That's just not true oralloy.
The Democrats are looking to pass the same budget/CR that Republicans last passed sometime in 2018.
The president is asking for more. The change in budget request is due to him. HE has changed the rules. He is the hostage taker to get what HE wants.

The Democrats want something from this too. Whether it is a good (and permanent) fix for DACA, or an attempt to just block Trump out of childish spite, I don't know. But the Democrats want something out of this too.

The Democrats are disagreeing with Trump just as much as Trump is disagreeing with the Democrats.

2 Replies

@oralloy,

So why not just release the hostages first... and then negotiate a deal that is good for both sides.

The Democrats are saying that the negotiation should happen without the federal employees being used as political pawns.

That is the correct message.

2 Replies

@maxdancona,

Quote:

The Democrats are saying that the negotiation should happen without the federal employees being used as political pawns.

How about the citizens that are used as targets by illegals?

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

If the Democrats capitulate based on a government shutdown, I will be furious. There is no upside for most Democrats on giving in, especially when Trump will be pinned for this and the Republicans will look like Trump toadies.

If the Democrats make a deal to reopen the government that includes a good (and permanent) fix for DACA in exchange for Trump's wall, will you consider that to be capitulation? Will you be furious?

2 Replies

@oralloy,

Depends on how good the deal is. But that hypothetical doesn't seem likely.

The government should be opened now freeing the federal employees from being pawns in this negotiation. The Democrats and Republicans can work out a deal without using the government shutdown as leverage.

If the is a truly great deal to be had before the government is reopened, of course they should take it.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

The Democrats want something from this too.

Yes. They simply want to reopen the government under the same budgets passed by Republicans for 2 years solid.

That's it. That's all the Pelosi bill that has passed the house 8 times already.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

So why not just release the hostages first... and then negotiate a deal that is good for both sides.

If the Democrats are not going to negotiate with Trump while under pressure to do so, they certainly will not do so when there is no pressure.

maxdancona wrote:

The Democrats are saying that the negotiation should happen without the federal employees being used as political pawns.

Of course. Because then the Democrats will face no pressure to make a deal.

maxdancona wrote:

That is the correct message.

If the goal is to spite Trump for no reason, then it is the correct message.

If the goal is to get a good and permanent fix for DACA, it is exactly the wrong message.

If the goal is to get a good and permanent fix for DACA, the correct message is:
"We will not agree to any wall unless we get a good and permanent fix for DACA as part of the deal."

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@oralloy,

I'd be fine it was for the 5 billion and if a good portion of that went towards fixing the backlog of court cases and implementing some sort of reasonable timeline that people can be tried in

Also that Trump actually for once present a coherent plan to the American people for this wall.

I'd also want guarantees that any future wall funding (remember, this wall will cost 50 billion, not 5b) would be done through PROPER legislative channels and that there be STIFF penalties for Republicans or Trump if he pulls this **** again.

I'd also like to see some legislation so that these shutdown CANNOT happen ever again...for either side.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Depends on how good the deal is.

Let's say it's a DACA fix that you define as good. I'll leave the details of that up to you and the Democrats.

But it also includes real funding for a real wall. Perhaps not the full amount that Trump is asking for, but still quite a lot of money for quite a lot of wall.

maxdancona wrote:

But that hypothetical doesn't seem likely.

It would be a lot more likely if the Democrats took the position that they will agree to the wall, but only if they get a good and permanent DACA fix as part of the bargain.

2 Replies

@oralloy,

What's funny is that Trump causes this DACA problem just to use those kids as a piece in this stupid game of checkers. Democrats should remind the public of that as well.

One more reason to vote the guy out in 2020 (as if I needed any more...but some might have).

0 Replies

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

maxdancona wrote:
But that hypothetical doesn't seem likely.
It would be a lot more likely if the Democrats took the position that they will agree to the wall, but only if they get a good and permanent DACA fix as part of the bargain.

You mean like they offered to Trump what was it, 6 months ago? Does it get any more public than that?

You're pretending that Democrats haven't tried to be reasonable on this whole issue the entire time....they're dealing with a schizophrenic president who changes his mind hourly (depending on the host of the current Fox News show).

1 Reply

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

You mean like they offered to Trump what was it, 6 months ago? Does it get any more public than that?

Perhaps. I don't know the details.

Whatever it is that they want, the Democrats should argue for that instead of refusing to make any deal at all.

And maybe that's what they are doing for all I know. I don't know what negotiations are going on behind the scenes.

2 Replies

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Whatever it is that they want, the Democrats should argue for that instead of refusing to make any deal at all.

They ARE. Are you listening. They. Want. To. Reopen. The. Government. Using. The. Same. Funding. Bill. The. Republicans. Passed. In. December.

That's all that they're arguing FOR.

Quote:

And maybe that's what they are doing for all I know. I don't know what negotiations are going on behind the scenes.

"for all I know...." --- jesus, why are you even here if you're not willing to listen or learn what's going on?

It's nothing behind the scenes. Pelosi has literally passed and sent 7-10 bills to the Congress detailing exactly what Democrats want right now. It's identical to what McConnell passed to Ryan in December.

The only change to anything is what Trump has changed. The #TrumpShutdown is because of his PISS-POOR leadership and piss-poor negotiation skills.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

maporsche wrote:
You mean like they offered to Trump what was it, 6 months ago? Does it get any more public than that?
Perhaps. I don't know the details.

Here you go oralloy. Take 5 minutes and catch up.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/the-immigration-deal-trump-shouldve-taken-didnt

Quote:

[All Trump] had to do was accept a 10- to 14-year path to citizenship for children of undocumented immigrants brought to the United States at a young age.

That deal has been on the table for more than a month now: Trump gives Democrats a path to citizenship for 1.8 million Dreamers; Democrats give Trump his full $25 billion wall funding request. […]

It is confounding that Trump didn’t just take the deal.

1 Reply

@revelette1,

The answer is for the Senate to vote on a House bill and let the process work. The President has the option to veto it, Congress can try to override.

2 Replies

@engineer,

At this point, I don't much care how this ends, as long as it ends. Democrats do have the advantage of having control of one branch of government, however, republicans and Trump controls the rest, so we are still out numbered as far as power goes. If Mitch McConnel will not vote on the house bill, there is not anything we can do about it. Saying for the dems to just hang on, is not right for those without paychecks.

2 Replies

How (and when) will the Government Shutdown end?

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