How (and when) will the Government Shutdown end?

@coldjoint,

coldjoint wrote:

Quote:
Either way the Democrats keep the moral high ground by saying...

There is no reality to a moral high ground here. The high ground is protecting our citizens. Democrats have repeatably picked up on anything but that. Double talk to keep illegals pouring in to change the electorate and overwhelming a system they seek to totally destroy.

I can't imagine how MAD you MUST be at Trump and the Republican Congress led by Mitch McConnel and the Republican House led by Paul Ryan over the last two years.

I'm sure if we go back to your posts over the last 2 years, we'd just see you SEETHING at those guys for not getting something as essential as the wall done...hell not even voted on....hell, not even a SINGLE BILL written and presented to a committee.

I feel your anger; it's been brewing for over two years. It's not like it's been manufactured in the last few weeks or anything.

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@maporsche,

Quote:

I feel your anger; it's been brewing for over two years.

The inaction of the last 40 years about this problem is what is playing out. Blaming it on the past two years is wrong. That Congress acted like all the others and did nothing. The duly elected president says it is time to act. I suggest Congress does it. If they do not whatever Trump does on his own will still be their fault, Democrat and Republicans both.

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@maxdancona,

I'm not offering any predictions, but I think Trump would be foolish to capitulate. If the Democrats refuse to meet him halfway, he should make the government shutdown permanent.

I do think it is reasonable for Democrats to insist on a real fix for DACA. If Trump's DACA offer is substandard, the Democrats should explain why and propose one that is better.

But Trump should insist on real funding for a real wall in exchange for it.

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@maporsche,

I'm just speaking for myself here, but I really don't care about the wall. I just think that Trump is acting reasonably in expecting the Democrats to meet him halfway.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

I'm just speaking for myself here, but I really don't care about the wall. I just think that Trump is acting reasonably in expecting the Democrats to meet him halfway.

I don't.

He has not presented a bill, a proposal, a powerpoint, or even a paper napkin with a design written on it.

Meet him halfway to WHAT?

1 Reply

@oralloy,

What do you mean make the government shutdown permanent? That would mean that from now on air traffic controllers and FBI agents would work for free?

That doesn't make any sense.

That ICE agents aren't getting paid makes me happy... but even I know that can't last forever.

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@maporsche,

The obvious compromise seems to me to be: In exchange for Trump getting real funding for a real wall, the Democrats get a permanent fix for DACA passed and signed into law.

Both sides get something that they really want and everyone is happy.

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@maxdancona,

If their job is necessary they will have to be paid of course.

But all of the people whose job is not essential can simply be laid off.

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@oralloy,

We will see... but Trump is playing a losing hand, and he is playing it badly.

You will blame what is about to happen on the Democrats and the liberal media. You won't be happy with how this ends.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

If their job is necessary they will have to be paid of course..

That pretty much ends your idea. Trump cant just shut down the government forever.

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@maxdancona,

I doubt that I will be too unhappy, as this is not an issue that matters much to me. And what little opinion that I do have is generally pro-immigration.

If Trump capitulates, I'll roll my eyes and say "that was foolish of him". But I don't think I'll be upset really.

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@maxdancona,

Sure he can. Even if essential jobs have to be paid, all the non-essential employees can still be laid off.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Sure he can. Even if essential jobs have to be paid, all the non-essential employees can still be laid off.

This is too silly to argue.... the whole point is that until the government shutdown is ended, the government is prohibited by law from paying anyone. If you still don't get it, then I give up.

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@maxdancona,

There is nothing preventing specific essential services from being funded while others remain shut down.

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@oralloy,

Other than the law... and reality, you are absolutely correct.

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Trump's latest deal... I think, is a last ditch attempt to turn public opinion. The deal is not a very good one, the Democrats will reject it. The question is whether the public turns on the Democrats. I don't think this is likely.

I am still predicting a national emergency.

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@maxdancona,

If law and reality do not allow selected parts of the government to be funded, what were Pelosi and the Democrats doing passing bills that funded departments individually one-by-one?

Should Trump send the FBI out to arrest Pelosi and the rest of the Democratic leadership for doing this?

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@maxdancona,

It was an earlier bipartisan proposal called a "bridge" , (didnt have the 3 year DACA hold). COuld be the Dems would OK it and then the Senate GOP would reject it.
Its a damn game between a buncha playground bullies (both sides)

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@maxdancona,

The Democrats would be wise to counter with a proposal of their own -- if their goal is to actually get a permanent fix for DACA that is.

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@oralloy,

The Congress can fund anything they want. And Trump can veto it.

The problem is that Trump is using his veto power to force Congress to pay for his wall. Congress isn't going along. They aren't funding anything.

Can you explain how your crazy idea of paying ICE employees while firing "non-essential" workers (like park rangers?) makes any sense? It doesn't even address the problem.

Until Congress passes a funding bill, neither FBI agents or park rangers will be paid. That's the law.

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How (and when) will the Government Shutdown end?

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