How (and when) will the Government Shutdown end?

33% might be worth doing, especially with current policing of the border.

It wouldn't be that high.

A good number of those they catch are from people who try to enter at legal border crossings and after searching vehicles they find people. Who knows how many others get through. No border wall is going to stop that from happening. The walls won't stop crossing at legal points of entry. You'd have to search every single car.

Plus, no wall is 100% effective, and this one in particular, with the terrain that needs to be blocked and however they plan to put a wall through the various rivers and mountains, the effective stoppage would be reduced.

It wouldn't have stopped the caravan. It won't stop the vast majority of drugs. It won't stop probably 80% of immigration problems

Not to mention the literally hundreds of miles of fence would take hours to reach unless you sent a helicopter (which I don't think the BP does). You wouldn't know a ladder was erected or someone took an angle grinder to a section for possibly days or weeks.

I don't know that the entire border would be monitored daily. Not sure there is the manpower for that. And now we're talking about building roads to access every part of the fence. Cost is rising.

Well, I have to admit you sound very sure of yourself. I continue to doubt it's effectiveness, but could easily be wrong. In any case, I'm sure it's not worth the cost of shutting down part of the government - unless we're hiring an awful lot of unnecessary people.

Hey! Minutes ago, you said 1/3. Now you're saying 20%. Which am I supposed to be responding to?

There is money for more border agents. Good paying jobs, and a lot are Hispancs.


I think they plan to, or close to it.

I'm just regurgitating information that I've gathered here and through various podcasts. The people I've heard argue against the effectiveness of the wall (especially considering the cost) make more sense than those I've heard arguing in favor of the wall. Trump and Coldjoint aren't exactly convincing me to join their side.



It's not worth the cost. I'd like to see Trump push for the wall through the normal legislative process. We, the people, through our representatives deserve to have a voice on this process and this wall.

1/3 was assuming an impenetrable wall. I'm only saying that with the holes and ineffectiveness of this wall design that it would be less than 33%. I just pulled 20% out of a hat...but <33% is the number.

I knew we'd find at least one point of agreement.

Over 100 billion dollars are spent on illegals every year[, you only pay for a wall once, divide that by 3. You said a third, we save money.

You do not have a very good argument.

No, they're not.

Link?

It's 54 billion. 0.27% of our GDP. And these are people, human beings.

The Trump tax cuts for the rich cost us 250% more than that.

And we'd pay for the wall every year. Has the Trump administration estimated annual expenses after completion. Have they even drafted a proposal that outlines the true cost or make up of the wall?

Have they done anything in the last 2 years to make anyone think this is an emergency?

https://www.heritage.org/immigration/report/the-fiscal-cost-unlawful-immigrants-and-amnesty-the-us-taxpayer

I am not allowed to speculate? You seem pretty free with your percentages. Trump has says ports of entry will become much tougher. Again, money is allocated for that too.

Where is it allocated? What's his proposal? Where is his blueprint? What has he presented to anyone?

He's only had 2 years to do it I suppose. He's short on time. That time spent watching the news every day and those tweets, well they don't write themselves do they?

You have no argument. These people are nothing but tools used to destroy this country. The people organizing them are globalists. The US has to go and you are enabling them.

To be clear, you have no answers for any of the questions I've asked on these posts. Worthless.

Moving on:

How does allowing immigration destroy the country?

Do you think Taco Tuesdays is ruining the soul of America?

Do you think a browner America is less of an America than we had 50 years ago?

What are you trying to say?

How disingenuous can you possibly be? I am talking about illegal immigrants. Legal immigrants are not affected.

Illegals are not a race. The race card. Same ****, different day.

To be clear, you can't read.

Immigration and/or migration in, out, and around can be beneficial and detrimental in various ways.

From the perspective of people bringing and spending money, migration stimulates that for better and worse. It can cause GDP growth but also inflation.

From the perspective of people bringing fresh cultural input and perspective, it can be beneficial and detrimental as well. Diversity is good, but often newcomers to an area just conform to majoritarian behaviors in the area. So, for example, if you are trying to grow alternative transportation, newcomers may just ignore that because the majority of people drive in an area so they just want to drive instead of committing to a relatively marginal form of transportation that reduces congestion and that is better for environment and sustainability.

The main problem with migration is not with migrants themselves but only with the trafficking of human slaves/drug-containers, and drugs. If traffickers can camouflage their couriers within large numbers of legitimate and/or illegitimate travelers, it makes it easier to ship illegal drugs and provide services that citizens with normal employment rights are less likely to agree to.

Some have been insisting that most drug trafficking occurs through legal points of entry, but those discovered shipments could simply be a decoy to distract border police away from other trafficking that occurs in other ways. It is unfortunate that traffickers and high-paying drug consumers collaborate to use human bodies and couriers and containers for recreational drugs, but border control is at least one tool that can be used to intervene in this exploitative/abusive industry.

My prediction is a little bit late... I thought it would be over by yesterday. But I think that other than the timescale I am correct.

- The Republicans are feeling pressure (far more than Democrats).
- Trump scheduled an announcement today to offer a deal... concessions on DACA for wall money.
- The Democrats haven't faltered at all.

I don't think the Democrats will make a counter offer... I expect the deal Trump will offer; $5.7 billion for the "Bridge Act" (a watered down "fix" for DACA that does nothing after 3 years) will be broadly seen as "silly".

The Democrats can say "You need to reopen the government and then we will talk. There will be no negotiation until the government is open.". I think the Public will support that position. I don't think you will see the Democrats budging.

The other strategy will be to make a counter offer... but I don't think the Democrats gain anything by doing this. A winning strategy might be to offer $1.3 billion for border security (not the wall), plus the DACA fix.

Either way the Democrats keep the moral high ground by saying... we should stop playing games and just reopen the government with no strings attached, then negotiate using the normal legislative process.

This is the beginning of the end.

There is no reality to a moral high ground here. The high ground is protecting our citizens. Democrats have repeatably picked up on anything but that. Double talk to keep illegals pouring in to change the electorate and overwhelming a system they seek to totally destroy.

Your prediction is wrong, not late.