Separation Anxiety

I think that hits the nail on the head. This child needs a sense of permanancy. He is attached to Mr. and Mrs. B. He loves them and is loyal to them. He wants to stay with them. Despite his young age, he is aware that his situation is not PERMANENT. He is afraid that his real mom will someday take him away from Mr. and Mrs. B (a constant phobia in his life); he is afraid to become attached to his real mom because she flits in and out of his life (she is undependable) and he doesn't want to appear disloyal to the people he is truly attached to.

These are complex issues for a four-year-old mind to deal with.

Whenever a court addresses the best interests of the child . . . the factors of continuity and stability rank the highest because continuity and stability are the ingredients that are necessary to raise a well-balanced human being. I hope your plans for adoption are realized sooner than later!

Are the natural parents mature and intelligent enough to understand that Mo needs continuity & stability -- a sense of PERMANENCY? Will they consent to an open adoption? I sure hope so . . . for Mo's sake.

Thank you, Debra.

We certainly do everything we can to establish that sense of permanance but..... we have no guarantees at this point.

It took us a long time to even find a lawyer willing to go to court with us for custody, much less one willing to undertake the hard to prove psychological parent rule.

(By the way, I hope my first post addressed to you didn't sound like I was trying to give you (of all people) custody law information. I don't think many states have a psychological parenting thing and didn't know if it was something you knew about.)

"Mature and intelligent" aren't really words most people would use to describe Mo's bio-parents. Both of their families are firmly in support of having us adopt Mo, though and I know that they have exerted some influence on their decisions to date.

This really stands out to me from your post, soz:

been maltreated or have experienced multiple attachment disruptions themselves

Mo's mother was terribly abused as a child, shuffled around and landed at her grandparents - that is where I met her. Her mother tries to contact her occasionally. Mostly without success. She has NO attachement to either of her parents.

Mo's father was not so much abused as neglected as a child. He has a very thin relationship with his parents.

It has to be hard for Mo to wrap his mind around all of this and I truly want to make sure that I handle it correctly.

I, too, am interested in what Dlowan might have to say. I hope she comes back by.

I've said this before, but if there is one thing I took from my early childhood education training it's that kids are not small adults -- they process things much, much differently.

They're also extremely resilient and adaptable.

Just to say that while of course it's a big thing and of course it has its effects, it's not necessarily in the category of a "constant phobia", at all.

I think it's totally reasonable and responsible for you to want to handle it all correctly, of course, and I think seeing a counselor will ultimately reassure you that you are, but the reassurance will help. And you may get some specific ideas that can help even more.

Well, I'm getting repetitious, so will leave it to the professionals.

phooey, my second post from last night didn't take
i'll have to re-create part of it tonight

one of my closest friends here and her son have paediatric psych practices including work in the area of attachment disorders. I'd picked up some stuff from her to share. Her take on what I'd told her (now if I could just get her to post here) was that it sounded like Mo was making progress in terms of attaching to you and Mr. B. ... and that he's scared of losing you.

She asked if there was a therapist you could all work with in the area - make it easier for all of you. She was much on the same wavelength as Soz (and me) in terms of you and Mr. B. doing really well - wondered if you just needed a real-life professional to tell you that.

Don't worry about offending me. You're far too nice and considerate to ever offend anyone.

Your situation is precarious. You're living it, you know the parties involved, and sometimes it is better to bide your time rather than to rock the proverbial boat. After all, the longer Mo remains in your physical custody -- the longer you and hubby maintain the status as de facto custodians -- the stronger your case becomes.

Additionally, getting counseling for Mo serves two vital purposes. The primary and paramount purpose is that counseling helps HIM. The secondary purpose is it helps your case to get professionals on your side whom will report to the court that Mo has entered a stage in his life where his best interests require that he have a sense of permanency.

In situations like this, there are multiple "legal" and "pyschological" strategies that can be worked to achieve the desired results . . . and I have no doubt that you have carefully researched all possible strategies and are carefully mulling over the options. If you need any help brainstorming ideas for presentation to your lawyer, I would be happy to help!

Best wishes.

I may be jumping to conclusions. I picked up on something B said in her second post in this thread:



It may not be a phobia that is prompting Mo's refrain, but some sort of insecurity / anxiety exists that prompts Mo to make this announcement several times a day. I agree with Soz . . . this matter will be properly dealt with by the professionals.

I'm not up on the proper polysyllabics. I'm a storyteller by natura and I'd tell a story roughly so...


Once upon a time there was a little boy named Little Mo who had too many house. He had a red (or whatever color) with his mother and a green (or whatever color) with his father and a pink house where his grandparents lived with the awful Witch Winnie.

Best of all he had a ____________ house where Mr. and Mrs. B (use his words). Little Mo loved his mother and he loved his father and he loved his grandparents--but not the wicked Witch Winnie and he loved Mr. & Mrs. B.

One day Mr. and Mrs. B sat down and said, "You know, Little Mo has so many houses that life is very confusing for him. We think Little Mo should stay in our house."

Now no matter how much people love children they are not allowed to pick them up and take them away without a Word of Warning. Mr. and Mrs. B went to court and talked to the Judge.

The Judge said, "What about Little Mo's mother?"

Mr. and Mrs. B. said, "Little Mo's mother loves him, but right now she can't take care of him. She wants him to stay with us."

The Judge said, "What about Little Mo's father?"

Mr. and Mrs. B said, "Little Mo's father loves him, but right now he can't take care of him. He wants Little Mo to stay with us."

The Judge said, "What about the grandparents?"

Mr. and Mrs. B said, "Little Mo's grandparents love him, but right now they can't take care of him. They want Little Mo to stay with us."

The Judge said, "Let me think. I think it is very important that Little Mo have the best possible home because Little Mo is a very important person.

And the Judge thought.

Then he said, "I've decided. Little Mo will go to live with Mr. and Mrs. B in the what-ever-color house because they want him and he wants them.

"This isn't just a "rule" this is a LAW. The Law says that Little Mo will stay with Mr. and Mrs. B for a long, long time.

"No one can change this LAW without coming and talking to me. I will not make changes unless Little Mo wants changes.

"The Law says that Little Mo will stay with Mr. and Mrs. B and they will live happily ever after.


Obviously this needs pruning and polish, but it should help.

Hold your dominion.

I LOVE that story just the way it is, Noddy!

You get an A for effort even if the post did disappear, eBeth. I thank you for the effort and if you have time to repost it I will greedily read it.

I too think Mr. B and I are doing a good job raising Mo but I know that he will have to deal with his curious past and I want to have the right skills to help him deal with it. I want Mo to have the right skills to deal with it.

Thank you for the offer of advice, Debra. I always like to know a bit about what I'm talking about before I approach topics head on. The laws on this are so complicated and having someone to bounce ideas off of is an valuable rescource.

Mr. B and I stumbled around in the dark for quite a while before I finally found the things we needed to know in order to ask an attorney the right questions.

You might end up being sorry that you offered!

What you said about the two vital roles of counseling is something I will carry in my pocket when I talk to his doctor.

I've spent a good part of the day reading about attachment theory and it seems that the "symptoms" are really so much more severe than anything I have experienced with Mo.

I'm mean, aren't all four year olds a bit bossy and manipulative? Aren't they all insufferable chatterboxes?

It's the "charm" thing that really gives me pause. Mo is a flirt. He will crawl up on stranger's laps and cuddle and coo. Once he figures out how to get someone's attention he will be relentless in keeping it on him. He will sometimes be very affectionate with strangers.

Needless to say, when he is in "charm mode" I am on constant high-alert.

Lord. Boomer - from the bits of Mo you have described, I would definitely NOT say he has a reactive attachment disorder!!!!!!!

I am sorry - I have not read the entire thread - but I gather he is reasonably well behaved - loving - cuddly?????


I am thinking an anxious attachment - which, given his history is amazingly good!!!!


Can you give pertinent history? I am sure you already have - but what was his infant experience of parenting - who was involved - when were the separations - what is his behaviour like?

The constantly seeking reassurance (I am so sure someone has covered this - I am sorry!) - I am thinking either reacting to recent contact, and your stress - or - he is actually now really attaching himself to you - and, naturally in the circumstances, fears loss - with his history, any move toward real attachment will activate his fears.

Boomer - this really is my area. But - my puter is off line - I am posting on a dinosaur - and it scrolls and posts so slowly it drives me nuts.

If you ever wanted to, I would be very happy to discuss stuff in email. Not that one can assess properly this way!!!!!!!! Not at all.

man, I am prolly gonna read up and find all this has been covered and I am wrong in all I said.

Yep - reading up - the "charm" thing ca mbe a warning sign - as is the disinhibition with strangers.

Charm was prolly very strongly selected for in his behavioural repertoire - he was lucky - he has it - slow to warm up infants have a harder time with lousy caregivers - he would have worked his little butt off, I suspect, to get care at all?

The disinhibition IS a sign of poor attachment - but, what could you expect?

And yes - four year olds are often deliciously pushy little flirts!

Aargh - just what I expected from mother's history - these are the people we are seeing all the time - Mo is so lucky he has a chance to break the intergenerational cycle.....

Custody, custody.....crossing fingers.

Oh - I think it is GOOD that he is running back from parents.

Oh man! Poor little fella!! They just COME BY, and expect to TAKE HIM AWAY - with no prior warning, no routine, oh bejesus.

Goddess, are you in a position to begin putting in expectations that any contact is routinized etc?

Or do you think that would "poke the bear"? **** - this is like trying to land a marlin with trout tackle, isn't it?

Is the mother able to take in education about Mo's needs? This might be a role for a counsellor, to work with bio parents on reasonable behaviour? Sigh - often doesn't work without court rules for these folk, though - they are so impulsive, lack empathy - lack ability to think things through in the way you can....

The killer is, YOU have to hand him over.


At least, can you and the mother sit him down and say exactly where they are going, and exactly when he will be back?

Does he ever talk about mum? The trick is to (as I know you are doing) for him to be able to express love and hate and anger for her (and you) - equally freely - without feeling he is breaching loyalty to either of you - and WITHOUT MAKING YOU GO AWAY.

He will believe, deep down, that he is a bad boy who made people go away - with his anger, or just his badness.

Simply reflecting his feelings can be great - seeing where he goes - and if he expresses stuff you can tell him - verbally and by yourt reactions - that whatever he feels is ok - and he is ok.

I am wondering what the explanation is so far for why he is with you guys?

Thank you dlowan!

I appreciate that you have waded through this - especially with a cranky computer. I hate to impose on your time and credentials so much as emailing you might require so first I will try to discuss it here.

I've really decided that counseling will be the best thing and will pay out of pocket if my insurance nixes the idea. Like with attorneys though, I prefer to go in with some thinking done and some knowledge acquired.

I'll try to be brief regarding Mo's history but ask away and I'll fill in any blanks:

Mo's mom, "B" lived with her grandparents, next door to me, that is how we met. (She was or at the time.) She lived there because her parents were in prison (mom for drugs, dad for abusing her, horrific abuse, terrible things).

Mr. B and I moved across town but I kept in touch with B - then she just disappeared. When she at turned up she was pregnant (she was, I think, 17 at that time) and her grandparents had thrown her out.

I told her that I would support whatever decision she made. (And I have.)

Mo was born.

Mo's paternal grandmother ran a day care and Mo was immediately placed there.

Starting at about two weeks old, Mo would spend two, sometimes three nights a week at my house. (Later, comparing notes, I found he was spending at least one night a week at paternal granparent's home too.)

This pattern continued for the first two years of Mo's life.

About a week before Mo's second birthday his parents had a fight and they split up. Mo was here during the fight and, despite both of their "just for a few days" statements he has been here ever since.

After he had been here for about three months we acquired power of attorney so we could put him on our health insurance.

Last summer, after he had been here for a year and a half we went to court and gained custody under Oregon's psychological parent laws.

If we go for a year (7 months down, 5 to go) without hearing from his dad we can start having his parental rights terminated. I think "B" would agree to have her rights terminated as long as she didn't think "A", Mo's dad, could get him.

We try to keep the door fairly open to his parents, within reason. (Both of his bio-parents families would love to see Mr. B and I adopt Mo and that is what we desperately want to do.)

We have tried really hard to not alienate them from us, and especially not to alienate Mo from them. Our position is precarious - Mo could end up with one of them eventually. Should this ever happen it will, I think, be easier for Mo having had that contact and for never have heard nasty things about his parents from us.

We have said from the very beginning of this two years ago that Mr. B and I don't have any side but Mo's and that we will always act in what we think is the best thing for him.

Sometimes that is really hard to do simply because we love him so much and we want him to stay here.

But knowing that might not happen, I think we've done pretty good.

Two other things that might be pertinent:

Mo's paternal grandparents developed a serious drug problem and disappeared from his life for a year only to resurface about a month ago.

Mo has two twin sisters who are about a year and a half old. They live with their father (he is not Mo's father).

That is very protective - that he had two nights a week with you guys from such an early age - except - nobody was able to be there all the time for him - the paternal grandfolk are ok? Sort of ok? The childcare was good - did he have th echance to form ongoing relationships with carers there, or was it one where people changed all the time (really good childcare places try to give each child a stable carer - as a sort of attachment figure)?

In terms of his peak attachment period - you were sort of there - who would he turn to for comfort if both you and a biological parent were there?

I think some counselling with a person well versed in attachment theory might be helpful .... if you find a good person. I cannot help you there, from here!

What explanation has little Mo ben given for being with you guys?

Something like "Your mum and dad wanted to care for you, but they are sort of not grown up enough inside to give you all the love and care you deserve - so they have asked us to have you and love you and care for you, so you get looked after the best way possible - cos you deserve the best"? That sort of thing?

I would be positively connoting the parents' decision (absolutely genuinely - they HAVE done something good - they HAVE recognised they can't do it - hopefully they stay recognising it) - because it is important for Mo to feel that he was given to you because he was cared about, not thrown away like trash. That will be his default position - more so after he hits school, and begins to think about who cares for other kids - I hope there is a lot of variety where he goes. There is heaps of mummy/daddy stuff for these kids at about 5/6.

(B - I apologise humbly if I say stuff that is like teaching you to suck eggs.)

If he runs from his mum like that, I would be reflecting his feelings like mad - see what he comes up with .

Same with the reassurance stuff - seems you are worried you might not be able to stay here? Or - seems you might be worried that we don't want to have you here always? See where it goes.

It is great that he is so expressive - not all frozen and such.

Resurfaced a month ago, eh?

No wonder the poor little fella is discombobulated!!!


There you have all the themes of abandonment and sudden reappearance played out right in front of him!!!!

What explanation did you/have you given for THAT????

Absolutely you are right to not alienate from parents. They should be boundaried, though. But not if it's gonna make them go into a tail-spin and take him.

I read this thread, and all the things you are going through boom and sometimes I just want to cry.
I can not imagine what it feels like to love a child so much and know that one day, they may not be legally placed in your home.
I feel scared WITH mo at times as well.
Debra said earlier that he is possibly feeling that if he shows attachment signs to someone else other then you , he may be perceived ( in his mind) as being disloyal to you.
WOW. that was an excellent point. Maybe that is an angle you can work with Mo after mo has been in some counceling? ( but... that is a ways down the line)
Im sorry , but I dont have any information or assistance to offer you . Just some kind words.
You seem so wonderful and thoughtful, mo or any other child for that matter would be very lucky to have you fighting to be in thier lives. Your strength shows to Mo. Dont ever doubt THAT.
So does your love. No matter what happens, that will stick with mo and that is a great gift as its self.