2
   

Is abortion only the womans right to choose?

 
 
theantibuddha
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 05:55 am
Okay, I'll spell this out for you...

Many people are born by accident out of a chance sexual interaction between two people who had no intention of bearing a child.

That they had a child without intending on it implies that they are either extremely unfortunate with their birth-control or immature/stupid enough to fail to correctly use birth control. This doesn't say much for their ability to adequately raise a child. Yet okay, if they decide that together the two of them will raise it then I guess that's good enough, hopefully they'll develop a convivial relationship.

However in addition even beyond that, if you're going to have one of the parents completely refuse responsibility for the child the situation becomes even worse. Now the child is unwanted, being raised by someone who unless they were unlucky is stupid and/or immature and that parent is doing it on their own.

Getting a piece of paper from the father's lawyer saying "I, casual sex partner, do hereby disavow all moral, financial and legal responsibility for this child" would at the very least bring home the situation and perhaps even bring the mother back to reality.

If at that point she's willing to take single responsibility for the child, carry it to term and raise it then clearly she really wants it. If she's uncertain though, to any degree, it's probably best if she does abort the child thus making any discouragements along the way, financial legal or otherwise a good thing.

Get it?
0 Replies
 
theantibuddha
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 06:01 am
MyOwnUsername wrote:
don't you think isolated deserted island (something like modern Australia) would be better solution then killing?


Uhhhhhh........ you've never been to Australia, have you?

It's about the size of America, ranks as the fourth most developed nation on the planet earth (UN human development index) and has a population of 17 million.

....

The .38 Magnum was a joke anyway. I could have answered your question seriously (and did with my last post) but was annoyed by the way you asked it... anyway, once you get my previous post you'll have your answer.

Besides, who would use a .38 Magnum, that's an expensive bullet and you hardly need the extra penetration that it offers.
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 06:13 am
Re: Is abortion only the womans right to choose?
theantibuddha wrote:
goodfielder wrote:
Seems to me then that instead of the anodyne marriage contract that is available at the moment (at least in my country) that there should be varying terms and conditions as agreed to by the two parties after negotiation and due diligence.


Interesting idea, yet people can have sex without marriage so its effects would be limited. It would also be highly unpopular, people have a notion that love and bureacracy don't belong together...


Good point about sex without marriage - perhaps the claim to intervene could be dismissed if they weren't married or in a committed relationship where that agreement had been settled though (I sound like I'm writing science fiction even to myself).

Yes love and bureaucracy seem to be at odds with each other. Reminds me of the first time I read "The Naked Ape" - "wot - love is just hormones?????" I must admit to being a bit affronted. However we might have to get used to all those notions.
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 06:21 am
MyOwnUsername wrote:
don't you think isolated deserted island (something like modern Australia) would be better solution then killing?

20 million actually. And plenty from Hrvatska MyOwnUsername :wink:
0 Replies
 
MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 07:11 am
theantibuddha wrote:
The .38 Magnum was a joke anyway


really Shocked Laughing

Quote:
Okay, I'll spell this out for you...



Quote:
Uhhhhhh........ you've never been to Australia, have you?

It's about the size of America, ranks as the fourth most developed nation on the planet earth (UN human development index) and has a population of 17 million.


nothing worse than over-pretentious people that think so high about themselves Rolling Eyes

I will not spell anything to you.

Maybe if you get outside of your head and try to check the real world, then maybe you will be able to spell it yourself.

Quote:
Get it?


Sure. Doubt that you do though.

But, thanks for informing me about Australia Laughing
Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 07:16 am
goodfielder - maybe antibuddha's "I'm so incredibly smart and am in love with myself" post confused you - it's not uncommon that pretentious people leave impression that they know what they are talking about if you don't read their posts carefully.

Australia was joke, of course Wink

oh, btw, I can spell something to buddha too (although Croatian language has no spelling) - "isolated deserted island like modern Australia" meant that such island would be something like modern "Australia", not that some island like "modern Australia" should be chosen.

I know that this kind of kidding is not for masses as ".38 magnum" joke is, but still...you would expect someone with such an urge for spelling to get it Very Happy
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 07:29 am
No worries MyOwnUsername - I can be a bit dense at times and miss the subtle points. Your reference to Australia as a desert island did remind me of a time many years ago when I worked in a small opal mining town in the outback when a local showed me a magazine article from Europe (Croatia) and he translated it for me. It referred to our town as being like the Wild West and me and my colleagues as being "Sheriffs". We had a big chuckle over it.

Anyway apologies for the thread drift.
0 Replies
 
MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 07:38 am
no problem Wink
hey, is that town under surface? I read recently about opal mining town that is almost completely built under ground level - churches, restaurants, houses....

Wild West or not - sounds cool Wink
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Mar, 2005 11:14 pm
It is a place called Coober Pedy - it does have a couple of underground churches and a few tourist type places underground and quite a few of the locals do live in dugouts but most of the town is above the ground. Luckly the pub is above ground or quite a few people would have a problem getting out of there - wait a minute, quite a few people have a problem getting out of the pub in any case Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Mills75
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Mar, 2005 11:10 am
joefromchicago wrote:
Mills75 wrote:
The argument: Given that the female partner can choose to have an abortion instead of carrying the pregnancy to term, she has no reasonable expectation of long-term financial support from the male partner should she choose to carry the pregnancy to term.

Does she have no "reasonable expectation" because there was no prior agreement, or is there some other basis for her lack of "reasonable expectation?"
joefromchicago wrote:
Mills75 wrote:
The justification: If one is presented with a choice between alternatives that are equally viable with regard to one's own material well-being (equal in financial cost, safety, etc.), and if those alternatives represent differing viabilities to another person's material well-being, and if one has not been placed in the position to make said choice unilaterally by that other person, then one is required by any rational sense of justice or fairness to choose the alternative that is most viable to the other.

This makes no sense, given that you agreed that it would be fair, in the case of Pedestrian and Driver, to make Driver pay regardless of Pedestrian's choice. According to you, when chooser has two equally viable alternatives, one which will affect payer more and one which will affect payer less, chooser is obligated to pick the alternative that affects payer less. But then that was the same situation that I posed in my hypothetical, and you agreed that it was fair for Pedestrian to force Driver to pay, regardless of her ultimate decision.

Now, I suspect you would want to distinguish the two scenarios by saying that, in the case of Pedestrian and Driver, Pedestrian had a "reasonable expectation" that Driver would pay, regardless of her ultimate decision (your proviso that the chooser must not have been placed in a position to make a unilateral choice amounts to the same thing). Thus even if Pedestrian chose the most expensive option, it would be fair to force Driver to pay. In contrast, I suppose you'd argue that, in the case of abortion, the woman has no "reasonable expectation" that the man would pay anything more than half the cost of an abortion.


No, I would differentiate your scenario from the case of unplanned conception by pointing out that your pedestrian is not presented with equally viable options, but that we, the outside observers, are provided with no information from which to judge the viability of her options. How is she crippled? To what degree will her handicap lessen her quality of life? Her lifetime earning potential? Is she living in pain? I can certainly imagine physical handicaps where risking a 50/50 chance of death to correct the handicap would be a more viable choice than living out my life span with the handicap, and if that's the case with your pedestrian, then she would be justified in choosing the surgery. However, because she was unilaterally placed in the position to choose (not "placed in a position to make a unilateral choice"), in other words victimized, she is also entitled to recompense for the violation of her natural, or unalienable, rights. In your hypothetical, that additional recompense would rightly come in the form of the pedestrian's freedom to make the decision that has been forced
joefromchicago wrote:
That analysis, however, merely pushes the question back from what is "fair" (for which you never really had a good explanation) to what is "reasonable" for the woman to expect of the man (or, in general terms, what is "reasonable" for the chooser to expect of the payer). Why, in other words, is it "unreasonable" for the woman to expect the man to pay more than half the cost of an abortion in the event that he impregnates a woman? That's a question that you still need to answer.


Read the justification more closely. Since it's already been established that there was no prior agreement of support (a prior agreement of support would give the woman a reasonable expectation of support and render all other arguments moot), and since she is not a victimlogically hold. It isn't logic that forces parenthood on men at the discretion of women once conception has occurred, it's an irrational moral code based in antiquated religious belief. If conception occurs, the woman has the choice to abort the pregnancy or carry the pregnancy to term. Since abortion is available, safe, and less costly to her sexual partner (much less herself) than carrying the pregnancy to term and raising a child, it simply is not logical from a material standpoint to expect the man to support the child.

joefromchicago wrote:
I would, in passing, note another problem with your formulation. If your general rule is that someone who, presented with two equally viable alternatives that will affect someone else unequally, is obligated to choose the option that affects that person the least, then that obligation is, perforce, also an obligation that falls upon the man. And, in the case of unprotected sex, clearly the man has two equally viable options -- to have sex or to refrain from sex -- which would affect another person unequally -- the possibility of pregnancy or the impossibility of pregnancy. Given that the man, therefore, has these two equally viable options that lead to two unequal outcomes for someone else, his obligation (according to you) must be clear: he must refrain from unprotected sex. The question then arises: what are the consequences for the man who fails in this obligation?


No problem at all. If the woman knows he is using no protection and consents to participate in sexual intercourse, then the situation does not change. If the woman had determined that using protection (herself or her partner) was more viable than not using protection and greatly increasing her chances of pregnancy, then she would have indicated this by refusing to participate in coitus. However, if the male had somehow misled the woman about contraceptive usage (perhaps it was a dark room and he said he was wearing a condom when he really wasn't, or maybe he said he had a vasectomy), then he would be obligated to whatever consequences may arise from the woman choice in the event of pregnancy. This, however, falls under "unilaterally placing her in a position to choose."

It isn't, however, unusual for a couple to simply agree to have unprotected sex. After all, it feels better (certainly for the man, but my partner and many of my female friends concur). We would certainly hope that they would have themselves tested for sexually transmitted diseases and come to an understanding about what they would do in the event of a pregnancy beforehand, but if pregnancy occurs under these circumstances and there was no prior agreement, then the man is limited in his obligations.

joefromchicago wrote:
Mills75 wrote:
However, in the case of unplanned pregnancy, abortion and live birth are not equally viable alternatives to the female's material well-being--abortion is clearly more viable with regard to the female's material well-being. It is safer and less costly. The only objection to this comparison of abortion to live child-birth is the religious one, which is moot since one can't justly force another to abide by his or her religious beliefs.

If "material well-being" (which, it seems, equates to "financial well-being") were the only consideration, then we could simply erect a straight Posnerian calculus to determine who gets to decide and who gets to pay. Of course, such a calculus would completely ignore any non-monetary considerations, such as the desire to have a child. Some may view such non-monetary considerations, because they are non-quantifiable, as negligible or unimportant. I do not.


And that is your choice. However, the woman's desire to have a child is irrelevant to the debate over whether or not the man is obligated to more than half the cost of an abortion in the event of conception. If she conceives and desires a child, she can choose to have the child, but her desire shouldn't obligate the man to support the child.
0 Replies
 
MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 01:49 am
I disagree with you - but you have a fair stand.
However, I think that we are all aware of risks, and that we should act and be obligated to act accordingly.
So, as well as I think that fetus is NOT just a part of female body as some women suggest, and that father should have right to decide that he wants his child to be born (except in cases of rape or medical risks for mother) - I also think that father should be obligated to support the child (unless he was raped as well no matter how rare that is).
0 Replies
 
theantibuddha
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 09:24 am
MyOwn,

You are delightful. That you would write an entire post to me and then make the impression that you're speaking to goodfielder was enough to make me smile. That this post was a statement as to how much you disregard me and my opinion was enough to make me laugh.

MyOwnUsername wrote:
Maybe antibuddha's "I'm so incredibly smart and am in love with myself" post confused you


Because he treats me with a modicum of respect and thus disagrees with your own opinion? Perhaps we should grant him the benefit of the doubt and assume that goodfielder is old enough to not require a wetnurse and that he can make up his own mind about me.

Quote:
- it's not uncommon that pretentious people leave impression that they know what they are talking about if you don't read their posts carefully.


This of course has nothing to do with their intelligence and ability to manipulate the english language and the psychology of others to a desired effect. Nor is it because of knowledge that provides them with the basis to know what they're talking about. No, rather it is the work of evil satanic magics granted to the pretentious completely unearned and unbased upon ability...

Quote:
Australia was joke, of course Wink

oh, btw, I can spell something to buddha too (although Croatian language has no spelling) - "isolated deserted island like modern Australia" meant that such island would be something like modern "Australia", not that some island like "modern Australia" should be chosen.


So it was a joke, but never the less its serious and respectable meaning was misattributed by me? Intriguingly inconsistent. My opinion of myself is not so high that I believe myself to be telepathic, even if you apparently think that I am. I took your statement as it was written and no more.

Perhaps you'd be so kind as to inform me by what you meant by a similarity to modern Australia? What trait should it share in common. Cities? Culture?... It clearly can't be natural features such as terrain, isolation, location or climate since then it would not have been necessary for you to specify "modern" Australia.

Any of the traits that have changed since pre-modern Australia such as the growth of cities or cultural development can clearly not be used either since it would counter the other trait you listed, being "deserted". This makes it unlikely that you did originally intend what you now claim. Don't make ad hoc rationalizations for your ignorance. They fool no one.

Quote:
I know that this kind of kidding is not for masses as ".38 magnum" joke is, but still...you would expect someone with such an urge for spelling to get it Very Happy


Only if written by someone capable of speaking in English. The fact that at least four times now you've demonstrated your complete unfamiliarity with such a standard idiomatic expression as "spell something out for you" should demonstrate that a little work is required before you're fully capable of expressing humour.

The fact that you clearly understood my .38 magnum joke based on your sarcastic ShockedLaughing response and everyone interpreted your australia "joke" as a statement of ignorance would make any self-honest person evaluate their own abilities a little.

Despite your grasp of sarcasm and its use above, you are in fact correct when taken at your word. My humour has been clearly demonstrated to be out of your league.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 09:54 am
Mills75 wrote:

Ideally, an argument should not be structured like an O. Henry short story or an M. Night Shyamalan screenplay. In other words, an argument shouldn't have a surprise ending. I suggest that, if you have a rationale, you divulge it rather than keeping us all in suspense.

Mills75 wrote:
No, I would differentiate your scenario from the case of unplanned conception by pointing out that your pedestrian is not presented with equally viable options....

Your argument is getting even more confusing; let me see if I can help you sort it out.

We now know, as a result of your response to my hypothetical, that the reason why you consider it "unfair" for the man to pay more than just his share of the cost of an abortion is not because you consider it unfair for one person to pay when another person chooses. There must, therefore, be some other explanation. As far as I can tell, you have offered three: for convenience, I'll label them "reasonable expectation," "participation vs. imposition," and "viability of options."

Reason No. 1: Reasonable Expectationlogically hold." Furthermore, you claim that "it isn't logic that forces parenthood on men at the discretion of women once conception has occurred, it's an irrational moral code based in antiquated religious belief." I'm not sure how that constitutes a logical argument (you have neither laid the foundation nor followed the requirements for a deductive argument), but we'll ignore that deficiency for the moment.

As I see it, your goal here is to set forth an objective standard for judging whether a woman's choice is "reasonable" or not. If a woman, in other words, chooses to have a child rather than have the abortion that the potential father would prefer, that choice would be objectively unreasonable. And that may be so: I offer no opinion on that point. But you fail to explain why an objective standard, in this case, should be privileged over a purely subjective standard.

Let me illustrate my point with a variation on my previous hypothetical. Let us say that Driver injures Pedestrian and that Pedestrian is faced with two choices: she can either get a blood transfusion, which will be cheap and will undoubtedly save her life, or she can refuse the transfusion, in which case she will probably die. From both Driver's subjective standpoint and a purely "objective" standpoint, the choice is clear. But Pedestrian belongs to a religion that forbids blood transfusions. Can Driver force Pedestrian to take the "objectively reasonable" option?

The law would say "no," according to the time-honored theory that a tortfeasor (i.e. an injurer) takes his victim as he finds her. If the victim is especially unreasonable, that's just the tortfeasor's bad luck: the victim gets the decision because, in these kinds of cases, we don't privilege the "objective" standard for decisionmaking. Your task, then, Mills, is to explain why, in the case where a woman is deciding whether or not to have a child, we should impose upon her any kind of objective standard.

Reason No. 2: Participation vs. Imposition. My guess is that you'd answer that, in the case of the woman deciding whether or not to have a child, she is not a victim. Rather, she participated in the initial "accident," so she bears partial responsibility (unlike the Pedestrian in my hypotheticals). In that case, your "reasonable option" argument is merely subsumed under your "participation vs. imposition" argument (which I suspect is the case).

There is, admittedly, a certain amount of persuasiveness to this argument. Tort law has long held that a volunteer who is aware of the risks of a particular action but who, nevertheless, willingly undertakes those risks cannot sue for any reasonably anticipated injuries (this legal maxim is venerable enough to have its own Latin phrase: volenti non fit injuria).

There are, however, two problems with this position: one that I will deal with later in an addendum, and another that I will discuss here. The "participation vs. imposition" argument only works if one assumes that the pertinent decision is the woman's decision whether or not to have the child. But, as I pointed out before, one could also look at the pertinent decision as the one to have unprotected sex in the first place. If the focus is placed on the sex rather than the aftermath, then we see two willing, informed volunteers, not one. In that case, neither the man nor the woman can complain about bearing the costs of their decision, whatever that might be. Your task here, Mills, is to explain why the focus is on the woman's decision to have the child rather than the man's decision to participate in unprotected sex. You've had one opportunity to do that and failed to offer a persuasive rationale; I'm offering you a second chance.

Reason No. 3: Viability of Options. You've now raised another reason for exempting the man from paying for the woman's choice: the man should only be held to pay for his share of any "viable" option. But this is simply a red herring argument. As you've already stated, in response to my hypothetical, a person can choose even a "non-viable" option as long as she is a victim rather than a participant. Or, as you point out, "if the male had somehow misled the woman about contraceptive usage (perhaps it was a dark room and he said he was wearing a condom when he really wasn't, or maybe he said he had a vasectomy), then he would be obligated to whatever consequences may arise from the woman choice in the event of pregnancy." The "viable option" reason, therefore, is entirely subsumed under the "participation vs. imposition" rationale: if someone has a choice imposed upon them, then they can require the "imposer" to pay for the choice regardless of its "viability." There is, consequently, no reason to explore this rationale any further: it is irrelevant to your argument.

Addendum: The Unexplored Complication. As I see it, you really have only one rationale: the "participation vs. imposition" argument. And, as I mentioned above, there are actually good arguments to be made in support of this rationale. But those arguments can only be made if there are two parties involved in the equation: the injured volunteer and the putative injurer. Things get much more complicated, however, if there are three parties involved: a volunteer, an injurer, and an innocent bystander.

In the case of a woman choosing to give birth, the innocent bystander is, arguably, the baby. We can say that the woman has been injured by the father, but in truth the injury is done to the child, who is the one who truly suffers if the father does not provide any financial support. Furthermore, like most innocent bystanders, the baby has no say in this matter: if he is injured, it is the result of the decisions made by both the parents.

The question, then, is: why is the baby not treated like the Pedestrian in my hypothetical, i.e. as a victim rather than as a participant? Since victims (but not participants) get to make any decision they want, and the injurer is required to pay (as you yourself admit, Mills), why doesn't the baby get to make a decision here? We can assume that, from the baby's perspective, the best option would be the one that yielded the largest amount of money, and so the baby would presumably want both parents to pay the maximum. Your task, Mills, is to explain how the baby fits into this picture. Is it a victim or a participant?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 10:45 am
Its quite simple,actually.
The people that say "its her body,she has the right",seem to be in a difficult position.
Yes,I agree that it is her body,but let me ask this.

Does the pro-abortion crowd also believe that all forms of prostitution be made legal?
After all,its her body.
Does the pro-abortion crowd also believe that drugs like herion and cocaine and crack also be made legal? After all,its her body.

If a woman wants an abortion,I say fine,doit.
BUT,if the father is not informed that the woman is pregnant,and if he has no say in the matter,then he is free from ANY financial obligations.
He should not pay for the abortion,nor should he pay child support if the woman has the baby without telling him she was pregnant.

If its a womans body to do with what she wants,then she is also responsible for ALL financial obligations,no matter what those obligations are,for whatever decision she makes.
If she keeps the pregnancy secret,then the father is not obligated to pay support.
If she has an abortion,then the man is not obligated to pay for it.

How hard is that?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 10:50 am
I agree with all of that, mysteryman, except for the drugs.

And I'm not debating that with you, here, or across the continent.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 11:06 am
ehBeth wrote:
I agree with all of that, mysteryman, except for the drugs.

And I'm not debating that with you, here, or across the continent.


I asked about drugs as a rhetorical question.I really dont expect an answer.
I was trying to point out that there are many laws on the books that restrict what a woman can do with her body,nothing more.
0 Replies
 
MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 12:55 pm
theantibuddha wrote:
MyOwn,

You are delightful. That you would write an entire post to me and then make the impression that you're speaking to goodfielder was enough to make me smile. That this post was a statement as to how much you disregard me and my opinion was enough to make me laugh.



well you are a jolly fellow, it's obvius. probably laughter was what made you write this answer for few days.

Quote:
Because he treats me with a modicum of respect and thus disagrees with your own opinion? Perhaps we should grant him the benefit of the doubt and assume that goodfielder is old enough to not require a wetnurse and that he can make up his own mind about me.


yes, perhaps you should do that as well.

Quote:
This of course has nothing to do with their intelligence and ability to manipulate the english language and the psychology of others to a desired effect. Nor is it because of knowledge that provides them with the basis to know what they're talking about. No, rather it is the work of evil satanic magics granted to the pretentious completely unearned and unbased upon ability...


correct. these are only possibilites. I mean - in your head they surely are. really.

Quote:
My opinion of myself is not so high


Very Happy Rolling Eyes Laughing

Quote:
I took your statement as it was written and no more.


cool. that probably explanes why you think that I missed your joke.


Quote:
Any of the traits that have changed since pre-modern Australia such as the growth of cities or cultural development can clearly not be used either since it would counter the other trait you listed, being "deserted". This makes it unlikely that you did originally intend what you now claim. Don't make ad hoc rationalizations for your ignorance. They fool no one.


don't make ad hoc rationalizations for your mistakes.

Quote:
The fact that you clearly understood my .38 magnum joke based on your sarcastic ShockedLaughing response and everyone interpreted your australia "joke" as a statement of ignorance would make any self-honest person evaluate their own abilities a little.


so, now you are seeing people around yourself? and they are saying that they agree with you? cool...
oh, btw, only other person that was part of conversation said - "No worries MyOwnUsername - I can be a bit dense at times and miss the subtle points". When you are dense all the time because of terrible pressure of your own intelligence and abilities - then you miss the points few times, I guess.


Quote:
Despite your grasp of sarcasm and its use above, you are in fact correct when taken at your word. My humour has been clearly demonstrated to be out of your league


not really. your humour has been clearly demonstrated to be inside many leagues. something like backstreet boys.
as well as you clearly demonstrated yourself once again as major self-centered jerk, but this is problem you are supposed to solve on your own. If, of course, someday you reach the level where you will become aware of it.


I would rather skip comments about pathetic and actually deeply sad comments such as "I speak English better then foreigners". But I have a solution for such people - .38 magnum.
Please note that I was kind enough to tell a joke you will understand.
0 Replies
 
MyOwnUsername
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 01:07 pm
one correction: calling you major self-centered jerk was wrong. what I should've said is that your post is post some major self-centered jerk would write. this, however, does not mean that you are like this generally.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 01:08 pm
MOU, I like your style. Wink
0 Replies
 
theantibuddha
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 02:22 pm
MyOwnUsername wrote:
well you are a jolly fellow, it's obvius. probably laughter was what made you write this answer for few days.


Some of us have lives outside of the internet. Next time I'll ask your permission before leaving my computer at home for the weekend...

However, you're actually right on some points, though. I shouldn't have allowed this to escalate into a flame-war, for which I apologise. My original annoyance at the way you acted motivated me to say some things that were inappropriate for this forum.

It's clear though that our discussion isn't contributing to this debate. I think we've both made our points clear, so I for one intend on leaving this here.

Sorry for being so agressive, I should have controlled myself better.

Izvinite. Do Videnja. (Only fair for you to laugh at my bad croatian as well)
0 Replies
 
 

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