Abortion

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I recently read that something like 48% of the women who have had abortions, have had more than one.

This has shaken to the core my belief that a women's decision about continuing a pregnancy is one which is taken with the most profound deliberation.

If almost half of the women having abortions are on their second abortion, in a world where contraceptives are incredibly easy to obtain, what does this tell us about the current societal application of abortion?

If this statistic is valid then I utterly reject the histrionics of Senator Fienstein concerning back alley abortions using rusted hangers.

Anyone who goes back to the abortion clinic for a second time, did not have a life altering experience with the first one.

If this statistic is accurate (and I am researching it as we post) then it has moved a Pro-Choice Conservative to the Pro-Life camp.

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You have too much optimism about the intelligence of the human species.

In any case, the last thing we need is the same people who have to get a second abortion being forced to raise their children and, in the process, create a whole lineage of unintelligent dolts who will never learn that they should be the last people to contribute genes to our current pool.

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Re: Abortion
If these figures are from the USA, they really seem rather high.

I know that even higher numbers have been reported from the USSR until about 15, 10 years ago - I know from my own work (here: with Germans from Russia) that abortion there was seen as a kind of birth control.

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

Anyone who goes back to the abortion clinic for a second time, did not have a life altering experience with the first one.

I've never heard that abortion clinics have the purpose to give life altering experiences. But I don't live in the USA.

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I say we should sterilize any woman that comes back for a second abortion. F#ck 'em.

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I'm not sure about sterilization, John Creasy, but I definitely believe in multi-abortion cases, something should definitely be done. I think it's important to get the focus back where it mainly lies, with the woman. That may sound harsh to some, and I agree there are some cases where the woman doesn't have much control, but in the cases where they do have control, it's time they took that control!

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Why on earth would you think that a women who has
a medical alteration needs to adopt to your standards of
belief?

Every woman has the right over her own body - period!

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CalamityJane wrote:

Why on earth would you think that a women who has
a medical alteration needs to adopt to your standards of
belief?

Every woman has the right over her own body - period!

Calamity Jane,

First of all, if you mean by standards of belief as being religious beliefs, I held my opinion of abortion long before I became a Christian.

I am speaking strictly of the women that are using abortion as a form of birth control. Yes, I agree a woman has the right over her own body. But, I do not agree she has that right at the expense of another's life.

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CalamityJane wrote:

Why on earth would you think that a women who has
a medical alteration needs to adopt to your standards of
belief?

Every woman has the right over her own body - period!

I'm not concerned with what she does with her body, it's the life inside that body that I'm concerned about.

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Ditto.

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I am always right and anyone that disagrees is always wrong.

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Momma Angel wrote:

Calamity Jane,

First of all, if you mean by standards of belief as being religious beliefs, I held my opinion of abortion long before I became a Christian.

Yes, MOAN, that's the point, you are talking about YOUR beliefs
which incidentially are not everyone's belief. Whatever you or I think
is not of importance to a woman who chooses to terminate her
pregnancy.

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John Creasy wrote:

I'm not concerned with what she does with her body, it's the life inside that body that I'm concerned about.

Yes John, and the woman who chooses to terminate her pregnancy
is not concerned about what you think. To her it is not life. Now what?

I respect your belief, I just don't share it!

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Re: Abortion

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

I recently read that something like 48% of the women who have had abortions, have had more than one.

It would be nice to have a legitimate source to support your opinion.

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Calamity Jane,

Like I said, before I was Christian I had the same opinion. But, if you consider that part of my beliefs, that's fine. I don't have a problem with that.

I realize that what WE think has no importance to someone choosing to or not terminate a pregnancy. We are just discussing our views and opinions.

And dys, I agree with you!

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Re: Abortion

Walter Hinteler wrote:

If these figures are from the USA, they really seem rather high.

I know that even higher numbers have been reported from the USSR until about 15, 10 years ago - I know from my own work (here: with Germans from Russia) that abortion there was seen as a kind of birth control.

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
Anyone who goes back to the abortion clinic for a second time, did not have a life altering experience with the first one.

I've never heard that abortion clinics have the purpose to give life altering experiences. But I don't live in the USA.

Nor have I Walter. The purpose of abortion clinics is to rid a women of a fetus she has growing in her womb, and in the process destroy the unborn child.

My tenuous support of a woman's right to choose has been based, in part, in the belief that for at least a large percentage of women having abortions, it is a painful and serious decision, and that having made that grim decision once, they would be inclined to do all in their power to not have to make it again.

Let's keep in mind that it is well within the power of the great majority of women having abortions to avoid unwanted pregnancies. Contraceptive drugs and devices are easily obtained by all women in America - irrespective of financial means.

54% of all women say that they were using some form of contraceptive during the month they became pregnant, but this seems very difficult to believe, unless a prayer to their preferred deity before they get busy is considered a form of contraceptive. We all know that no contraceptive drug or device has a 100% success rate, but only 46%?

3% of abortions are for the reason of the mother's health
3% of abortions are for reason of the physical condition of the fetus
1% of abortions are for the reason of rape and incest

I couldn't find statistics for the incidence of repeat abortions in these three categories, but it seems reasonable to believe it would be less than 50%, and even if it were higher, the percentage of abortions represented by these categories is minimal and unable to drive statistical trends across the whole.

These statistics leave me, at least, with a firm believe that the vast number of abortions being conducted are for a wide range of socially related reasons (96%). This is not a newly formed belief, and while it has always made me somewhat uncomfortable in my support of the pro-choice position, I've maintained that position based on the additional belief that in, in the main, the women having these abortions have made very serious and deeply considered decisions. When very close to half of them have, at least, one repeat abortion, that belief is seriously called into question.

I appreciate that there is a school of thought that supports abortion based solely on the issue of personal choice, and that the reasons for having an abortion are irrelevant. I've never been a member of that school, and I don't believe that the majority of Americans who support the legalization of abortion are either.

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Here is some info from a pro choice site

Quote:

MYTH: Women are using abortion as a method of birth control.
In fact, half of all women getting abortions report that contraception was used during the month they became pregnant.1 Some of these couples had used the method improperly; some had forgotten or neglected to use it on the particular occasion they conceived; and some had used a contraceptive that failed. No contraceptive method prevents pregnancy 100% of the time.

If abortion were used as a primary method of birth control, a typical woman would have at least two or three pregnancies per year - 30 or more during her lifetime. In fact, most women who have abortions have had no previous abortions (52%) or only one previous abortion (26%).5 Considering that most women are fertile for over 30 years, and that birth control is not perfect, the likelihood of having one or two unintended pregnancies is very high.

http://www.prochoice.org/about_abortion/facts/women_who.html

And here are some abortion statistics by state. Interesting
to see that the "bible belt" states have an extraordinary
high number of abortions.

http://www.abortionfacts.com/statistics/age.asp

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Re: Abortion

CalamityJane wrote:

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
I recently read that something like 48% of the women who have had abortions, have had more than one.

It would be nice to have a legitimate source to support your opinion.

Jones RK, Darroch JE and Henshaw SK, Patterns in the socioeconomic characteristics of women obtaining abortions in 2000-2001, Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health, 2002, 34(5):226-235:

Quote:

Each year, 2 out of every 100 women aged 15-44 have an abortion; 48% of them have had at least one previous abortion.

source for above: Guttmacher Institute: Facts in Brief: Induced Abortion in the United States

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I think the most important thing to remember here, is that it is NONE OF OUR BUSINESS who has an abortion or not. It doesn't affect us in any way if Susie and Joe Lunchbucket want to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy.

Anon

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Right MOAN, I agree that we can discuss different opinions,
I disagree when the individual belief becomes a political
issue discriminating against a woman's choices.

You know Finn d'Abuzz, it would be nice if you could
have a source for your statistics. Otherwise it is your opinion
only and you should state that.

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Momma Angel wrote:

I'm not sure about sterilization, John Creasy, but I definitely believe in multi-abortion cases, something should definitely be done. I think it's important to get the focus back where it mainly lies, with the woman. That may sound harsh to some, and I agree there are some cases where the woman doesn't have much control, but in the cases where they do have control, it's time they took that control!

It's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!! Your faith and your religion have nothing to do with anything at all except for how you want to live YOUR life! Others are not bound to you, or your faith.

Anon

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