My husband of 9 months bruised my arm

Re: even more sad

Debra_Law wrote:

I was very sad after reading Charm's post. She is rewarding her husband's abuse by allowing him to control her through intimidation and violence. I am even more sad after reading JB's post.

Intimidation, verbal abuse, displays of anger, and violence can NEVER be justified by blaming the victim. JB suggested that Charm may have brought this on herself -- that SHE NEEDED TO BE CONTROLLED for her own good. This is the same thing that Charm's husband told her.

Then I'm not making my point clearly enough. All I've been saying is that I can envision the possibilty of a 'hearty debate' and her 'overpowering him' as a situation that was out of control in many respects. I didn't say he needed to do anything but chose to stop the argument and over reacted in the process. To me the words 'overpowering him' bring to mind a picture of an in-your-face attack with her spewing venom at the cousin for being an ignorant s.o.b., which maybe he is, but I can see the POSSIBILITY of Charms being out of control by her own words.

We all bite our tongues and swallow the venom we want to spew. Particulary when it comes to inlaws. We expect to have a lifelong relationship with these people and if there is ever a chance for a marriage to succeed we have to occasionally swallow the bullshit they dish out. We don't know what started the 'hearty debate'. If the cousin told Charms to get him a beer and she refused and he went of the deep end then all the power to her. If the cousin told his wife to get him a beer and she complied and Charms went off the deep end then I think Charms should have quietly counselled the wife to leave the idiot rather than trying to 'overpower' him.

Yesterday Brooke told stuh55 that she was 'biting her tongue and quietly leaving'. Why? Because we ALL do that occasionally rather than start something we don't really want to start. How can Charms expect to have a lifelong relationship with her husband's family if she tries to overpower them? Is she asking him to pick between her and them? She'll lose every time. How many of us ask our husbands to choose between us and thier families and go into attack mode when we're around our inlaws? Like I said before, there are many times when I like to rip my SIL a new one but I bite my tongue and leave the room because I expect to have a relationship with my husband's family for the rest of my life.

I am NOT saying she deserved his reaction. Just that she's had a rude awakening to the POSSIBILITY of her husband's underlying demeanor and should educate herself to her options now should there ever be a repeat of his behavior.

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Charms, you said in a previous post that marriage was a scared institution and I agree with you 100% but God did not intend for one partner to be a slave to the other. And He did not intend for a woman to stay in a marriage that was abusive or harmful. Even the bible says:

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave Himself for it. That He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. " ( Ephesians 5:22 - 28 )

ALSO on divorce....

He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery." The disciples said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry." (Matthew 19: 8-10)

I think physical abuse falls under immoral behavior.

I hope you get things worked out Charms. You deserve better. Good luck!!

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I want to remind you of something we all know, charms. Misery loves company. Anyone who reads this entire thread and still says they would wait until it happens again has A. been an abuser B. been abused or C. is not seeing the meaning of your words and giving you terrible advice. (Let's remember folks this is about Charms, not you, so please don't be offended)

Charms wrote:

Well Bill you made me laugh out loud with the
Quote:
While packing bags???"
statement. I've cried so much already, my eyes are actually burning.

Very good! Smile

Laughter really is the best medicine. When you lose your sense of humor, it's over.

This next paragraph confirms everything the other doom-criers and I have been telling you.

Charms wrote:

I want to tell myself that it was an accident, but I know that it wasn't. When it was happening I looked into his eyes and he looked like someone I didn't know...at that moment he was a stranger to me. He was so angry.............. I've never seen him like that before.

Forget my words. Forget everyone else's words! LOOK AT YOUR OWN.

Lets look at your words in more detail, okay.

Charms wrote:

I want to tell myself that it was an accident, but I know that it wasn't.

This is natural. Of course you want to pretend he didn't mean to hurt you. If he meant to hurt you; then you have to admit to yourself that you married a psychopath and that all your plans for the future are spoiled. Unfortunately... as bad as you don't want it to be true, it is.

Charms wrote:

When it was happening I looked into his eyes and he looked like someone I didn't know...at that moment he was a stranger to me.

You've met the monster. The monster was always there and he always will be. It may be another 7 years before the monster gets out again. Maybe he'll hurt your children instead of you next time. You must listen; Brooke told you that once the monster tastes the power he can't help but come back. Nothing you can do will prevent it. She's heard literally hundreds of these cases and had her own unborn child beaten to death by that same monster. You admit you don't know this stranger, so you can't know what he's capable of. He's already proven your previous beliefs false.

Charms wrote:

He was so angry.............. I've never seen him like that before.

I, too have read this in every abuse horror I've ever read, and heard it from my one friend who is an ongoing victim. Billy Joel wrote a song about the Stranger and how we all have one. Click here to read the lyrics if you like, but remember his list of his possible strangers doesn't include psychopath, so don't follow the advice. I link it only to remind you that we all have strangers that occasionally get out... and none of us can keep them locked up forever. Including his. Sad

Now, you've seen this stranger... and you know he hurt you on purpose. Stay, and you'll see him again. You know this.

I'm going to reassemble your words for you, because you make a more compelling case to leave than anyone else here could.

Charms wrote:

I want to tell myself that it was an accident, but I know that it wasn't. When it was happening I looked into his eyes and he looked like someone I didn't know...at that moment he was a stranger to me. He was so angry.............. I've never seen him like that before.

Forget my words. Forget everyone else's words! LOOK AT YOUR OWN!

Charms wrote:

Wow... the memory is so clear "Feeling sad again!"

Yes. That's why I asked the question. Now get the hell out of there before you really get hurt... or you will. Sad

Please.

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I see your point OCCOM BILL.
Charms may have written all of that but the fact that she is still with her husband is probably a bigger sign.

We all need to let off steam, we do it in the form of writing in forums to strangers.

Yes I agree with stamping out abuse but I think Charms is still with her husband because she wants to save her marriage.
Is physical abuse the only reason to get out of a relationship?
What about verbal abuse which id imagine would happen first,should we all get out of the marriage at that stage?

It seems charms husband is doing it to not look weak infront of his cousin.

As Ive said before, if he does it again GET OUT but marriages have to be worked at.

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Material girl, you've become an apologist for her husband's actions. I can only assume this is because you've made a similar choice; to deal with some form of abuse in your past or are dealing with something similar as we speak. If you've managed to look past such behavior and remain happy I admire you for it. But I'm saddened for you too. This isn't about you or me, however... this is about Charms. Forgive me for chopping up your post, like I'm about to do; please understand I think it's work that needs to be done for Charms' sake. Please remember we're both here for Charms's benefit.

material girl wrote:

I see your point OCCOM BILL.
Charms may have written all of that but the fact that she is still with her husband is probably a bigger sign.

She's been with the man for 8 years. That she's still, there is normal. If she gets lucky and finds the sense to leave before the violence escalates the will be the lucky exception to the rule. The vast majority of woman who marry abusers live in denial until their lives are shattered, or extinguished or forever.

material girl wrote:

We all need to let off steam, we do it in the form of writing in forums to strangers.

Unless you're suggesting that she's not being honest, you are trivializing the FACT that she's been abused.

material girl wrote:

Yes I agree with stamping out abuse but I think Charms is still with her husband because she wants to save her marriage.

Of course she wants to save her marriage. What kind of dolt wouldn't want to save their marriage? She didn't know before the other day there was an ugly, violent side to the man she married. Now, there will never be another time that she doesn't know that there is an ugly, violent side to the man she married.

material girl wrote:

Is physical abuse the only reason to get out of a relationship?

What an absurd question. Physical abuse and more importantly the mental power play driving it is the reason Charms is here. There need not be any other reason beyond physical abuse... Confused

material girl wrote:

What about verbal abuse which id imagine would happen first,should we all get out of the marriage at that stage?

Why would you ask such a question? It is irrelevant if that "stage" came first... the abuse has already gone well beyond that. Again, you are trivializing the importance of a man squeezing his wife arm, with hatred in his eyes, until she bows to his will. Please don't trivialize it.

material girl wrote:

It seems charms husband is doing it to not look weak infront of his cousin.

You have to be kidding. (Sadly, I know you're not.) You are suggesting that if he was abusing his wife to impress his cousin that lessens the crime? That is the very worst part of the crime. The FACT that he did so to prove to his cousin that he's in control of his wife too, is the most outrageous apology I've heard in a very long time. If there was any hint of violence that would have been justifiable at that gathering; it would have been her husband standing up for her and telling his cousin to mind his tongue when talking to his wife... or even either of their wives. Men like this are many, Material girl, and I pity you if you think you have to settle for less. Think it through.

I suspect you have some unresolved issues of you own if you can't see the moral bankruptcy in your preceding justification. That is truly the most appalling position that could be taken. Everything about your demeanor here tells me you are a nice person and I promise you you didn't deserve what ever led you to come to those conclusions.

material girl wrote:

As Ive said before, if he does it again GET OUT but marriages have to be worked at.

If that priest molests another child, he should be dealt with. The man is either capable of the evil deed or he isn't. If she'd have known he was; she never would have married him in the first place. She already said she didn't know the man who abused her. But, she's married to him. If she stays married to him, she's going to see that stranger again. I'd wager my kingdom against a cup of cofffee on that.

I apologize again, Material girl for chopping up your post like that. I'm sure it wasn't fun to read, but this isn't about you or I. I'd rather not further distract Charms attention away from the FACT that she's married to a psychopath. This isn't about you or me. Okay?

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For me, the best indication is, that Charm's husband never
apologized. If he had said: "Sorry honey I drunk too much
and didn't know what I was doing, I blacked out at that
moment. I will make sure this won't ever happen again,
so I'll seek counseling" or shown any remorse at all,
than there woulde be light at the end of the tunnel.

Instead he's quiet and hopes for Charm to address the
issue or it will blow over in time.

His action shows that he's not remorseful at all, and this
should be your answer Charm.

However, before you leave you need to prepare yourself:
if you don't have it already, get your own bank account,
rent a small apartment in a different part of town, and
slowly move your belongings there. Make sure that you're
financially secure for at least 6 months, maybe get a
part time job without telling your husband (in case you
don't work alraedy), and please consult with an attorney
now. He/she might be able to help you immediately.

Join a support group of battered women, they not only
offer emotional support, they also know what's needed
to cope the first couple of months.

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

I want to remind you of something we all know, charms. Misery loves company. Anyone who reads this entire thread and still says they would wait until it happens again has A. been an abuser B. been abused or C. is not seeing the meaning of your words and giving you terrible advice. (Let's remember folks this is about Charms, not you, so please don't be offended)

or D. was raised by a wonderful woman who always said there are two sides to every story and taught me to put myself into the other person's postition before I made any final decisions.

Having said that however Charms is the one who came here looking for advice, not her husband. If the story had been his we might be giving him the same advice we are giving her. So yes, it's my nature to look at the big picture and to try to fill in the missing blanks. When giving internet advice we have to take people at face value and answer the question asked with the information available so in the absence of his side of the story I will say this...

Charms, your relationship with your husband has changed forever. Only you know whether there is hope enough to work through these issues with your husband and his family. I myself said if it were me I would probably leave at least as a separation. I am not advocating you stay in an abusive relationship or any relationship that has changed to the point where it can no longer be sustained. I left a marriage after 12 years because it was no longer a relationship that provided either of us with any hope of happiness for the future. Please don't think I want you to set yourself up for further attacks. Nothing is further from the truth.

I have listened to your words. All of them. And I've hearrd your pain, anger, frustration and sadness. They are all normal and just feelings. I hope you find peace and happiness in your life whatever you decide.

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J_B wrote:

or D. was raised by a wonderful woman who always said there are two sides to every story and taught me to put myself into the other person's postition before I made any final decisions.

Those are good words to live by as well, JB. I generally would agree. They go right along with; there is an exception to every rule. In this case, some exceptions: There is NEVER a second side to Rape, Child-Molestation or Violent Domestic Abuse. In these cases, the story is either true or it isn't. There can be no justification if it's true... and it's pointless to even answer such a call on the basis that it might not be. Pity the fool who lies to their Doctor, Lawyer or Shrink. :wink: You know? Unless she's a liar, she's a victim. If she's a victim, he's an abuser. This logic chain cannot be broken. (Not that I want anyone to try. Confused

)

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I am with all of the adamant folks here. I don't think there is any way for Charms to stay and have either person happy, and think the potential for tremendous pain is already there, explosive at any minute.

That summary is from my view from my life of seeing different situations.
I hate to make proscriptions on someone else's life on line, but I am quite worried, my instincts run along with O'Bill's.

I assume there are cultural differences between some of us and Charms. I was taught the woman obeys the husband, back in my youth. My every fiber quails at that now. Even in traditional cultures, power is usually better distributed.

I am expecting Charms is going to wait until the next time before acting on leaving., since she is trying to think "positively".
I can understand that, but hope it won't be too late.

At the least, Charms, I hope you work out who you can run to, who you can call, what shelter there is, for when you need it.

Unless you plan to disappear as a person with a mind and heart, who can talk back.

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OCCOM BILL you have a very different and refreshing way of thinking in comaprison to any guy I know but you could not be more wrong in assuming Ive been in a violent relationship,its never happened and never will.Both my boyfrinds have been absolute gentlemen.

I love it when you chop up my posts,hmmm chop,thats a rather violent word to use,maybe we shouldnt communicate with you just incase your mind is open to violence.

In response to some of the many points raised-

I can imagine when charm confronts her husband there will be raised voices and insults flown back and forth.Itself a form of abuse.Relating to my 'is physical abuse the only reason to get out of a marriage'comment there would be sooooo many divorces if verbal abuse is unacceptable.
If he had verbally abused her first then she would be out of there, the fact that he didnt may mean he is a 99% decent guy and the violence may be an isolated incident.

Of course she is telling the truth, why would she waste her time and ours on a lie???

If charm didnt know until the other day that her husband had an 'ugly, violent' side then nobody should get married 'just in case'.

If he wanted to abuse his wife to impress his cousin he'd do it behind closed doors and ring up his cousin and tell him about it.The fact that it didnt happen before or since again implies it may be an isolated incident.
I think guys are very insecure infront of other guys they admire so if his cousin says he thinks women should obey men and charms argues with him, her husband is going to do something to try and convince his cousin that he doesnt agree with her and has 'control' over his wife.Sadly it came in the form of violence.

All I am saying is that it didnt happen before, he didnt continue to beat his wife after the incident so maybe he should have a second chance.
Of course he isnt keen on discussing it, he's a man!!!!Also as ive said before, if charm is being unnaproachable you can see he is wary of bringing up the subject.

I am trying to see things from his point of view too.

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skyrocketing divorce rates

material girl wrote:

I can imagine when charm confronts her husband there will be raised voices and insults flown back and forth.Itself a form of abuse.Relating to my 'is physical abuse the only reason to get out of a marriage'comment there would be sooooo many divorces if verbal abuse is unacceptable.

Verbal abuse is NOT acceptable. AND -- there ARE many divorces taking place every day (at least in this country) because abuse is unacceptable and intolerable. Take a peek at the divorce rates.

When and if people ever learn that they ought to love, honor, and RESPECT their marital partners (rather than mentally, emotionally, verbally, and physically abuse them), maybe marriages will have a better chance of survival.

Quote:

If he had verbally abused her first then she would be out of there, the fact that he didnt may mean he is a 99% decent guy and the violence may be an isolated incident.

Husband's act of violence cannot be minimized as an "isolated incident." It has changed Charm's life forever.

She now knows she married a man who will use verbal and physical abuse as a means to intimidate, punish, and control her. Perhaps she loves him so much that she will try to "forgive" him for abusing her and will give him a second chance (most victims of domestic violence allow their love for the abuser to overwhelm their powers of reason) -- but I can guarantee that she will NEVER FORGET what he is capable of inflicting upon her -- and their relationship will never be the same.

Quote:

If he wanted to abuse his wife to impress his cousin he'd do it behind closed doors and ring up his cousin and tell him about it.

Nonsense. How could you possibly know how he would have done things differently depending on his motives? He abused his wife-- whether he abused his wife in front of his cousin or "behind closed doors," it makes no difference -- he still abused his wife.

Quote:

I think guys are very insecure infront of other guys they admire so if his cousin says he thinks women should obey men and charms argues with him, her husband is going to do something to try and convince his cousin that he doesnt agree with her and has 'control' over his wife. Sadly it came in the form of violence.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Insecurity in one's gender or manhood is not a justification for abuse. It is NEVER acceptable for a man to demean, humilate, or abuse his wife/girlfriend in order to demonstrate gender superiority. I disagree that he had to do something to prove he has 'control' over his inferior wife.

As a society, we cannot condone abuse nor minimize it with a "boys will be boys" mentality.

Quote:

All I am saying is that it didnt happen before, he didnt continue to beat his wife after the incident so maybe he should have a second chance. Of course he isnt keen on discussing it, he's a man!!!!

A person's male gender does not an excuse make. You're very caught up in stereotyping gender roles in relationships and excusing or minimizing unacceptable behavior because a man is . . . well, a man.

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Fair enough.I do seem to be stuck in stereotyping genders.

How can YOU possibly know that he will do it again?

So why hasnt Charm left her husband?
Surely if she stays she is stereotyping battered wives.If she has already made up her mind what he is like why didnt she just up and leave when it happened?

Going back to stereotypes for a sec-
Men tend to take action ie how many men are in prison on assualt charges in comparison to women, how many men are connected to war than women.
Women tend to talk about situations ie less women in prison,SATC being so successful.
I wasnt talking about a gender defining wether somebody is violent or not,infact the opposite,because he is male may be why he didnt sit her down after the comment and have an quiet/fair conversation about it, like a woman would.

I agree violence isnt acceptable but if a partner accidently hurt their spouse should they leave the marriage?How is an accident defined?It could happen again.

As ive said many times if it happens again she should leave him but she clearly wants to work at her marriage.

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charms wrote:

What do I do now? My husband acts as if I was wrong, and he is even more angry at me than what I am at him. He says that the bruise is nothing and that I brought it onto myself...

material girl- Does this sound like an accident to you?

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We had an argument last night, he was looking for his atm card and asked me if it was in my wallet... I said no, that I had used my wallet and it definately wasn't in there. Well, he didn't believe me... he went to my bag to get the wallet. That was it! I took the bag from him and asked him if he didn't believe me, he said that he just wanted to make sure that it's not in there. I said that I'm sure it's not in there and he asked me why I don't want him to look?? I told him because he doesn't believe me when I tell him it's not in there. Well, then he told me to go to Hell and I told him he was rude and if he could only speak to me by yelling and shouting he shouldn't talk to me at all... He then told me that the only reason he is rude is because of me , and he ws never this way, not until he got married to me, .... I'm so sick of his BullSh!t! I cannot believe he would blame me for his rudeness! F#ck him man! Why do I have to be treated like a piece of SH!t???

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I think it's time you start making arrangements to leave Charms.

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Quote:

He then told me that the only reason he is rude is because of me , and he ws never this way, not until he got married to me

Does this sound familiar? Blaming the victim. In the words of Ann Landers, "Wake up and smell the coffee"!

Quote:

F#ck him man! Why do I have to be treated like a piece of SH!t???

You are treated that way, because you allow it. Leave now, before the abuse escalates.

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Phoenix32890-No your right it doesnt sound like an accident but that was written soon after it happened.
Charm changed a couple of days ago and got tough and angry.

Charm I can understand it must be frustrating that you think he didnt believe you but there is such thing as piece of mind.
He just wanted to look for himself.

I think once raised voices start and an accusing tone of voice creeps in then things arnt ever going to move forward.
I think you both really need to FORCE YOURSELVES TO STAY CALM and talk things over or your not going to get anywhere.
Even if you still end up leaving him at least you will know why he acted the way he did.

Its clear tho that you have made up your mind.
Are you going to a hotel or stay with friends?

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Something worth reading-

Look under original writing section under the heading of whats wrong with being a man.
It mentions how men DONT feel like they can show emotions like crying and put up a front with 'possesions'.

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Quote:

Charm I can understand it must be frustrating that you think he didnt believe you but there is such thing as piece of mind.
He just wanted to look for himself.

Material girl- Take a look at what you have written. Charm's husband had no RIGHT to look through her wallet without her permission. If you believe that he did, even for "peace of mind", IMO you need to look at YOUR own conceptions of appropriate marital behavior.

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With my body I thee worship,for better or worse, richer poorer etc
People will give their bodies to each other but heaven forbid they want to look in a wallet without asking permission!!!!

Charm started out saying its definately not in her bag, then Im sure its not, leading to an element of doubt.
What is wrong with a spouse looking in THEIR spouses wallet.
WHAT DID CHARM HAVE TO HIDE?

Surely in a marriage you SHARE things if you dont think married people do then maybe you need to look at your conceptions of appropriate marital behaviour.

I think now that they are both trying to take control over each other.
Nothing is going to be resolved like this but Charm has made up her mind so Im sure she can move in with her family until she sets herself up a new home somewhere.

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My husband of 9 months bruised my arm

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