My husband of 9 months bruised my arm

I'd like to hug all three of you...Brooke, Bill and, of course, Charms. I feel so badly that she's having to go through all this. But I do think she'll have to go through it to get past it. Unfortunately, people usually do.

Bill, your posts have been absolutely wonderful. I knew you were a great guy, but I didn't know you had it in you to be so insightful. I am very impressed. Tell me again, why aren't you married?!

Brooke, you're an angel. You must have a heart the size of Texas to keep dealing with these stories after all you've been through. God will bless you, and we owe you a big thanks.

One question though...when you said that a victim doesn't take responsibility for their own life, I think that's a bit harsh. I agree that someone who REPEATEDLY allows themself to be victimized isn't taking responsibility, but let's be clear here. "Not taking responsibility" is NOT in the same class with ABUSING SOMEONE. The damage is being done by the perpetrator, not the victim. Let's be sure we fix the blame squarely on the shoulders of the person committing the crime, and help the victim to recognize that they (the victim) is not the one who did something wrong. And they have absolutely NO obligation to expose themself to the possibility of more abuse.

I've known WAY too many innocent victims who mistakenly assumed that somehow they must have caused the problem. The guilt can be overwhelming, and it is wrong, wrong, wrong! Charms didn't bruise her own arm...her husband did. Let's be sure we blame HIM, not her.

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Keep mouth shut

Charms wrote:

I know that he loves me too, this is so much of a shock to me and I will avoid debating with his cousin ever again for the rest of my married life, or at least when my husband is around.

What? I guess your husband's abuse achieved the intended results. I guess you didn't read any of the links provided concerning abuse and family violence. I'm very sad for you.

You found the solution to your husband's verbal and physical abuse: You must now leave your ideas about being an independent liberated woman and an equal partner in your marriage in the past. You are now your husband's property. Be a meek, cowering woman and be intimidated by your husband's abuse, manipulation and intimidation. You now know your place in this relationship. You may not say or do anything that your husband doesn't want you to say or do.

The next time you and your husband visit with his cousin, you and the cousin's wife better stay in the kitchen and keep your mouths shut while the men give each other high five's and brag about how they have their women under control. If you dare to open your mouth again, you know the consequences. Next time, he'll probably belt you in the face, break your arm, or push you down a flight of stairs or worse. You are nothing but a subservient female in this male dominated family. Love, honor, and OBEY. (Emphasis on OBEY -- or else.)

You are choosing to reward your husband's abuse by cowering to his authority over you and letting him control you through anger and violence. If you thought you were going to be equal partners in this marriage and work through your differences through loving compromise, think again. You aren't getting what you bargained for when you said, "I do." Again, I'm very sad for you because this is only the beginning.

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even more sad

J_B wrote:

stuh505 wrote:
I'm surprised how many of you immediately respond saying that she should get out of this relationship asap.

Yes, he did a bad thing. But in perspective...

1) They just got married
2) They've been seeing each other 7 years
3) He's never done anything like this before

I think that is a lot to throw away, or to suggest to throw away, so quickly...without even attempting to solve the problem.

I agree. That's why I'm so hung up on seven years and there must be more to this than we know.

Just how heated was the debate? Was Charms going for the jugglar (figuratively) and verbally abusing the cousin before her husband stepped in? Again, I am NOT in any way condoning his actions and I would be very concerned if my husband said or did those things to me but I think there might be two sides to this story.

From her first post...

Quote:
I was having a debate with his cousin about husbands and wives and the roles that we play in relationships. His cousin believes that a woman should be obedient to her hsuband and do whatever he says. I dissagreed with him and a heafty debate followed. .... It's like he doesn't want his cousin to be overpowered by a woman, because I was starting to win the debate.

The words heafty debate and overpowered by a woman keep coming back to me. Sounds pretty intense. Maybe it was getting out of control and her husband was afraid his cousin was going to hit her and stopped it any way he could for her own safety. I'd like to hear his side.

I was very sad after reading Charm's post. She is rewarding her husband's abuse by allowing him to control her through intimidation and violence. I am even more sad after reading JB's post.

Intimidation, verbal abuse, displays of anger, and violence can NEVER be justified by blaming the victim. JB suggested that Charm may have brought this on herself -- that SHE NEEDED TO BE CONTROLLED for her own good. This is the same thing that Charm's husband told her.

It doesn't matter what Charm may have done or said. Charm's husband chose to control her through intimidation, verbal abuse, displays of anger, and violence. He called her an obscene name. He told her to shut up and sit down. He grabbed her so tight that he burnt and bruised her upper arm. When she voiced her shock and humiliation over being abused, he minimized the extent of his abuse and the bruise he inflicted on her body by telling her that she was making too much of the incident and that she brought it on herself -- that she had no one to blame but herself. Then he exhibited MORE anger towards her because she dared to challenge the abuse.

It is NEVER acceptable to suggest that the victim of abuse somehow deserved the abuse or brought the abuse upon herself. The abuser is the one with the problem -- NOT THE VICTIM.

The victim can choose to stay with the abuser or leave. The victim can choose to conform her behavior to her husband's expectations in order to avoid future abuse -- but as Brooke pointed out -- there is little a victim can do to prevent abuse other than leave. Now that Charm's husband has tasted the power, he will be hungry to achieve that power high over and over again. The cycle of abuse has begun.

After an incident of abuse, the couple enters a honeymoon stage. As O'Bill pointed out, this stage is filled with flowers, gifts, false promises, make-up sex, etc., but the honeymoon stage wanes . . . and another incident of abuse is always looming on the horizon.

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Read the links . . .

stuh505 wrote:

He didn't hit her, he didn't do anything with the intention to hurt her, he merely pulled her down into her seat. Without being there, we can't really judge the intensity of this situation...especially only hearing one side. Some women bruise very easily. Also they could have been a little drunk. Not that drunken violence is OK, but if he was drunk, maybe he accidentally squeezed a little harder than he meant to...which is not an indicator that he's going to punch her in the face next time! If Charms takes photographs of her bruise and goes around looking at women's shelters thats only going to make the problem worse. There is no sense exaggerrating what he did because if she DOES exaggerrate it then he will just mentally see her as being in the wrong and he'll have a very logical mental avenue of denial of the whole incident. There's also no reason to exaggerrate the issue because what he did do -- yell and insult her - is bad enough to warrant a serious discussion.

Please read the links concerning abuse and family violence. That's another way an abuser minimizes the violence: Oh . . . she just bruises easily . . . she's making a big deal over nothing. That's BS. There are no justifications for verbal and physical violence . . . NOT EVER.

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Eva

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v37/heavens_just_a_kiss_away/hug.gif

I will try and explain better what I meant by that.

When we counsel women at the shelter the first thing we do is let them know it was not their fault.......in any way shape or form.

Second thing we do is try to get them to accept responsibility for their "life." In the sense that they have given their abuser, over and over again.......the "right" to totally control all that is them. In doing so....they give up who they are. Their identity, their thoughts, their motivations. They become almost a material object.

In short......they NEVER have to accept responsibility for the actions of the abuser. BUT they do have to accept responsibility for their own action. All of the wrong choices they made in staying in the relationship have to be put to past and the future allowed in. In getting them to accept this responsibility....they also accept that they are indeed strong. Smile

That they CAN leave for good. That if ever in their life they become involved in another abusive relationship....it is NOT OK TO STAY!

Therefore......the abuser gets all the responsibilty for the abuse. The victim accepts the responsibility for the bad choice of staying.

Getting them to understand this..........is just one of the steps in teaching them to take their power back. For they have been powerless in their own eyes and they eyes of the abuser for way too long.

And in doing so........they will have the strength and wisdom to never go back to the abuser.

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Eva wrote:

One question though...when you said that a victim doesn't take responsibility for their own life, I think that's a bit harsh. I agree that someone who REPEATEDLY allows themself to be victimized isn't taking responsibility, but let's be clear here. "Not taking responsibility" is NOT in the same class with ABUSING SOMEONE. The damage is being done by the perpetrator, not the victim. Let's be sure we fix the blame squarely on the shoulders of the person committing the crime, and help the victim to recognize that they (the victim) is not the one who did something wrong. And they have absolutely NO obligation to expose themself to the possibility of more abuse.

I've known WAY too many innocent victims who mistakenly assumed that somehow they must have caused the problem. The guilt can be overwhelming, and it is wrong, wrong, wrong! Charms didn't bruise her own arm...her husband did. Let's be sure we blame HIM, not her.

Taking responsibility for one's life does not mean that the victim is in anyway to blame for the abuse. It's 100% the abusers fault. But the victim cannot change the abuser's behavior, she can only change her own, and that is by leaving or getting therapy or both. I was in therapy long enough to know that many if not most of us act out or try to resolve problems from our childhood. Many of us marry our parents; that's not a cliche, but the truth. We try to work out with our spouse what we couldn't as children. And it never works except to act as a catharsis and a vent to anger. That's acting out archaic problems, and that's how abuse happens. Bear in mind that this is a totally unconscious process. That's why we go into therapy, to become aware of and conscious of the process.

As I said earlier, abusers are experts at finding victims, unconsciously, and victims are experts at finding abusers, unconsciously.

We have a president now who took us to war for unknown reasons, unknown to us and most decidely unknown to him. Most likely he was acting out, psychologically, problems from his childhood. And from the looks of it a large part of the population is doing the same thing. And parents are to blame too. It's like Bush and his war are gods that we are sacrificing our children to. If somebody suggested that we must sacrifice our children to god, we'd say they were nuts, but nationalism has once again become a religion that we blindly follow.

Sorry to get on politics folks, but it's all the same old **** and we'd better start look at ourselves instead of pointing the finger outwards before we find ourselves in a much larger pile of crap than Iraq.

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Hi everyone,

Well, I was totally hyped up to sit him down and talk to him last night! But when he picked me up from work, and I saw him, I just got so angry all over again! Mad

I thought "Why should I even try to work this out! " I just couldnt bring myself to do it! We went home, he parked the car and I went to bed, he sat up in the lounge watching TV until 10pm and came to bed after I was asleep. This morning, I didn't talk to him at all.He asked me if I wanted lunch and I just said NO.
He dropped me off at work, and that's that!
Tonight it'll be the same thing all over again.

I just feel that Why should I even try and talk to him? He is the one who abused me! And if he doesn't get off his Attitude Problem and try to resolve this issue, then what's the point in me even trying. He is waiting for me to make the first move, then he'll know that I just cannot live without him! Well, he is wrong! I won't stand for this Crapp!!! He hasn't even tried to talk to me! Let alone apologise ! Things will never be the same again! Who am I kidding here?

I'm SO NOT fearful or scared of him! I know I sound very angry right now, and that's exactly how I feel!

To everyone who has given me advice, thank you so much. I think I'm going through stages or something, over the past few days I was so sad so disappointed, and today, I'm so angry! Tomorrow? maybe I'll be sad again, who knows?! All I know is that my husband abused me, he doesn't want to own up to what he did. He is waiting for me to make the first move in resolving this problem "which I decided I'm not going to do", and he is acting all sad and depressed so as to make me feel as if I was the one who hurt him.

But I'll tell you something, everytime I look at the bruise on my arm, the memory of what he did and said to me comes flooding back and I feel more and more like packing my bags and getting the hell out of there!

This is such a difficult decision! It's hard when you are the one left to make a choice that could change everything you are used to forever. To me marriage is a sacred institution, it's a bond between two people that should never be broken, but what happened to me on the 1st Jan 2005 makes me question my beliefs and wonder why this Sh!t is happening to me. Exclamation

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A good counsellor could help you sort out those confused feelings & help sort out what you choose to do.
The best of luck to you!

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Charms wrote:

But I'll tell you something, everytime I look at the bruise on my arm, the memory of what he did and said to me comes flooding back and I feel more and more like packing my bags and getting the hell out of there!

Do it. Anger is good. Use it to find your resolve and get the hell out of there! It's not too late for you yet. But be careful. You've only seen a hint of what he's capable of... and no matter how tough you think you are, he's tougher. Don't underestimate your predicament. He may handle it pretending he doesn't care, or he may snap. Remember this is new, so can't know how he'll react to this, just like you didn't know he could abuse you.

Charms wrote:

This is such a difficult decision! It's hard when you are the one left to make a choice that could change everything you are used to forever. To me marriage is a sacred institution, it's a bond between two people that should never be broken, but what has happened on new years day makes me question my beliefs and I'm just so CONFUSED...

You're not breaking it, he did. Your partnership is over... and it will get nothing but worse from here. Read what these folks have written. Look at Brooklyn's avatar and then imagine what kind of monster could beat her half to death... and then consider what she's telling you. She used to be you.

I had already written the stuff below before I noticed you posted again, so don't think I'm being insensitive to your plight. I feel horrible for you darlin. Crying or Very sad

Eva wrote:

Bill, your posts have been absolutely wonderful. I knew you were a great guy, but I didn't know you had it in you to be so insightful. I am very impressed. Tell me again, why aren't you married?!

Yes, delightful aren't I? :wink: When I was younger, I couldn't commit because I wouldn't have been faithful and the only "keeper" I've met since I grew up (at around 30 :cool:) was WAY too religious. My days are probably numbered, though, because I think I'm over my fear of commitment. Just need to meet another keeper!

Thanks for the kind words you guys, but I'm only stating the obvious. I'm hoping Charms is the exceptional girl who actually gets the message. My family doesn't tolerate this kind of crap. In fact, my mom's lessons were "no hitting accept for self defense and even then only as a last resort" "Unless you see a boy trying to hurt a little girl, Billy, then you hit em with everything you got!"
Words to live by, and I have.

I have one friend I rarely see who dates an abuser and I guess that's why I read these sad threads. She's a hopeless case who seemingly knows better but still never leaves. I've learned that she's become codependent and now seemingly requires the abuse to feel loved. She can't leave because "he needs her". It could be worse I suppose, she only really gets seriously hurt one or two times a year and he's going to change. Rolling Eyes

Astounding that someone would volunteer for such treatment. I've learned victims are like drug addicts in that you can't help those who are unwilling to help themselves.

I remember meeting another girl once named Sonata when I first moved to Florida. She was a pretty girl who smiled constantly, the kind of girl you like before you even meet. I can't remember which country she and her husband came from. He was not an abuser as far as my friends and I knew, just a very controlling prick who liked to be in charge of everything. I'm guessing they were married for a long time because her accent was barely noticeable and they had come over together. Finally, she got tired of being subservient and told him she wanted to get a divorce. It was then she got the first beating the idea was to beat into her the knowledge that if he couldn't have her no one could. Serious love, right? Shocked, she didn't know what to do. With the help of some friends at the restaurant she worked at, I remember that she had moved out in secret and avoided him as much as possible. He constantly called and fussed and once he even hid in the back of her car because she was refusing to see him.

The witnesses at the sidewalk restaurant heard her screaming for help from the car at stoplight in front of the place, but didn't know what to do. Finally, she tore herself from his grasp and with her shirt torn half off her body ran for the restaurant screaming "help me" "help me" but he was much faster and caught her by the hair, just as she reached the sidewalk. He put not one, but two bullets in her head before putting one in his own. I think she was 27 years old.

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Thanks Bill...

I just feel as if I have wasted 8 years of my life... you know what I mean?

It's so horrible to hate some one you truely love.

I know what you are saying, if he did it once, he can do it again... All the emotions I'm going through is totally confusing, I feel so stressed and emotional. If anyone just looks at me funny I'm afraid I'll just break down and cry.

When it happened, I told myself immediately that I'm leaving him, and now, I just cannot bring myself to do just that... How do I do it? It's easier said than done. You know what I mean?

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You need to leave
You need to leave.

You need to take control of the situation NOW.

Check out the website: Why do abusers batter

http://www.acadv.org/abusers.html

A batterer abuses because he wants to, and thinks he has a "right" to his behavior. He may think he is superior to his partner and is entitled to use whatever means necessary to control her.

Abusers may try to manipulate their partners, especially after a violent episode. He may try to "win" her back in some of these ways:

Invoking sympathy from her, her family and friends.
Talking about his "difficult childhood".
Becoming overly charming, reminding her of the good times they've had.
Bringing romantic gifts, flowers, dinner.
Crying, begging for forgiveness.
Promising it will "never happen again."
Promising to get counseling, to change.

Abuse gets worse and more frequent over time.

YOUR HUSBAND is an abuser -- LOOK AT THE PROOF ON YOUR ARM. He needs to enter a Perpetrator Intervention Program For Abusers

Do you have a program like that in your community?

Abusers can enter voluntarily or be court ordered to Perpetrator Intervention Programs. It is important to note that there are no guarantees that he will change his violent behavior. He is the only one that can make the decision--and commitment--to change.

An intervention program should include these factors:

Victim's safety is the priority.
Meets minimum standards for weekly sessions (16 weeks).
Holds him accountable.
Curriculum addresses the root of his problem.
Makes no demand on the victim to participate.
Is open to input from the victim.

What programs teach:

Education about domestic violence.
Changing attitudes and beliefs about using violence in a relationship.
Achieving equality in relationships.
Community participation.

In the program, an abuser should become aware of his pattern of violence and learn techniques for maintaining nonviolent behavior, such as "time outs" "buddy" phone cals, support groups, relaxation techniques, and exercise.

How do you know if he is really changing?

Positive signs include:

He has stopped being violent or threatening to you or others
He acknowledges that his abusive behavior is wrong
He understands that he does not have the right to control and dominate you
You don't feel afraid when you are with him.
He does not coerce or force you to have sex.
You can express anger toward him without feeling intimidated.
He does not make you feel responsible for his anger or frustration.
He respects your opinion even if he doesn't agree with it.
He respects your right to say "no."

Am I safe while he is in the program?

For your own safety and your children's safety, watch for these signs that indicate problems while he is in the program:

Tries to find you if you've left.
Tries to get you to come back to him.
Tries to take away the children.
Stalks you.

Lies
Six Big Lies

If you hear your partner making these statements while he is in a treatment program for abusers, you should understand that he is lying to himself, and to you.

"I'm not the only one who needs counseling."

"I'm not as bad as a lot of other guys in there."

"As soon as I'm done with this program, I'll be cured."

"We need to stay together to work this out."

"If I weren't under so much stress, I wouldn't have such a short fuse."

"Now that I'm in this program, you have to be more understanding."

Counseling

Couples' Counseling does NOT work in violent relationships! If you are struggling with a relationship, some people may advise you to get marriage counseling, or couples' counseling. While this can be good advice in some relationships, it is NOT good for couples where there is violence. In fact, in many cases, couples' counseling has increased the violence in the home.

Couples' counseling does not work because:

Couples' counseling places the responsibility for change on both partners. Domestic violence is the sole responsibility of the abuser.
Couples' counseling works best when both people are truthful. Individuals who are abusive to their partners minimize, deny and blame, and therefore are not truthful in counseling.
Couples resolve problems in counseling by talking about problems. His abuse is not a couple problem, it is his problem. He needs to work on it in a specialized program for abusers.
A victim who is being abused in a relationship is in a dangerous position in couple's counseling. If she tells the counselor about the abuse, she is likely to suffer more abuse when she gets home. If she does not tell, nothing can be accomplished.
If you think you will benefit from joint counseling, go AFTER he successfully completes a batterer's intervention program and is no longer violent.

*********

Charms: YOU NEED TO LEAVE. I don't think it's in your best interest to give him a second chance to abuse you. But IF you're set on giving him a second chance --- you must ensure your future safety. BUT LEAVE FIRST. Refuse to come back and refuse to give him a second chance until he enters and successfully completes a domestic violence intervention program.

Watch for the signs -- He needs to take this situation seriously. If he does not acknowledge that he abused you and that it was wrong for him to do so without minimizing his behavior and/or blaming you -- Don't give him a second chance.

This is a difficult situation, but YOU need to take control of YOUR life. If you don't, you and your future children will have to pay the unhappy consequences.

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Im glad to read people are taking such a positive approach to abuse and Im happy to hear you standing up for yourself and I agree if a spouse does this once they can do it again.Personnally Id let it slide once, if it happens a second time, Id be outta there!!

I believe the simple fact that he asked you if you wanted lunch was his way of making the first move.
Just because it wasnt about what he did to you doesnt mean its not a start in communicating to each other about the situation.
This will go on forever if neither of you are willing to have any kind of conversation.

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I don't feel scared or fearful when I'm in his presence, I'm not scared of him at all.

I know that if neither of us are willing to have a conversation this thing will never be resolved. but, why should it be me? I want him to make the first move, when he does I will tell him how I feel.
I will try my best not to give in to his emotional plights, and then I will give him an ultimatum. He has to address HIS PROBLEM. Go for couselling or speak to a shrink about it. AS Debra has suggested above.
I will make it known to him that if he ever hurts me like that again, I WILL LEAVE..

I know in my heart of hearts that I won't be able to give up on my marriage this easily, I asked for advice because I WANT it to work between us... but if it comes to that I will try to be the strongest that I've ever been. Even if it means giving up on an almost 8 year relationship....

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But again,his 'do you want lunch' comment was his way of making the first move.
If you answer him negatively or not at all to anything he says then he is going to assume you dont want to talk to him AT ALL.

He clearly wants to start talking to you again and the converstaion may be about food shopping or TV but its a start, and eventually he may start to talk about what happened.

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Yes, I know... he is trying to talk to me... should I start talking back and just wait for him to EVENTUALLY start talking about what happened?

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Charms wrote:

Thanks Bill...

I just feel as if I have wasted 8 years of my life... you know what I mean?

Of course. Sometimes I feel like I just wasted 36. But we don't live in the past. We live in the future. You sound like a pretty centered gal for a victim of domestic abuse. I'm starting to think you might actually have a shot at getting out.

Charms wrote:

It's so horrible to hate some one you truely love.

I've never had cause to but I sympathize with you. That must really suck... but I'm glad you are feeling the appropriate emotional mix. Smile

Charms wrote:

I know what you are saying, if he did it once, he can do it again... All the emotions I'm going through is totally confusing, I feel so stressed and emotional. If anyone just looks at me funny I'm afraid I'll just break down and cry.

You probably need to get a big cry out of your system. Plan your moves. Big cry next time your alone... while packing bags? ? ?

Charms wrote:

When it happened, I told myself immediately that I'm leaving him, and now, I just cannot bring myself to do just that... How do I do it? It's easier said than done. You know what I mean?

It always is. I wish I had the magic words for that one. But it's 5:am here and I'm about out of brains... plus I don't think there is any. I read you said you know it could happen again... but that's not quite right. It will happen again only it will be worse and I think deep down your already know that and that's why you came here. I have a serious question for you that should help you make up your mind: Is there any possibility his squeezing your arm hard was an accident... or was he trying to impress upon you with how strong he is? The answer to that will tell you if it will happen again. Be honest with yourself, no matter what. I'll check in on you here tomorrow. Take care of you.

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I know your peed off with him, its very understandable but if you want to stay together you need to start talking...about anything.

You say EVENTUALLY he will talk to you about it.He may be dying to talk about it too but he wants you to be in a calm and approachable mood,EVENTUALLY may mean.... in a couple of hours not a couple of weeks.
Maybe he has realised he has done wrong and he is just embarressed to bring the subject up.

If he was still angry he wouldnt care about if you wanted lunch or not.

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Well Bill you made me laugh out loud with the

Quote:

While packing bags???"

statement. I've cried so much already, my eyes are actually burning. Confused

I want to tell myself that it was an accident, but I know that it wasan't. When it was happening I looked into his eyes and he looked like someone I didn't know...at that moment he was a stranger to me. He was so angry.............. I've never seen him like that before.

Wow... the memory is so clear "Feeling sad again!" Crying or Very sad

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Charms
Not much more I can say that hasn't already been said, so I just want to wish you the best and welcome you to A2K.

(((HUGS)))

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Thanks Montana, I appreciate all the empathy.

Material_girl, I hear you, I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens... I will just have to stay positive. thanks...

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My husband of 9 months bruised my arm

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