29
   

Why I left the Democratic Party

 
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 12:29 pm
@Baldimo,
Obama asked Congress to pass a bill on DACA MANY times.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-move-to-shield-millions-from-deportation-is-lawful/

The DNC is taking a page from the republican playbook and using the spending bill to get what they want. You know the answer to your question already, but you like to pretend that only the opposing side does anything wrong.

I didn't like it when the republicans did it. I don't like it now either. But there's not secret as to why they're doing it.


If I were in charge, I'd have a path of citizenship for every immigrant that can step foot on American soil (but especially DREAMERs who were brought here through no fault of their own). I believe immigrants make America the glorious place that it is. I think the birth-lottery is a shitty reason to deny someone the freedoms and society that they want to live in.
Baldimo
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 12:59 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:

That doesn't mean he gets to make it legal on his own without it being passed by Congress. That was a major problem with Obama, his refusal to work within the guidelines of the checks and balances system. He granted status that he wasn't entitled to grant. Why do you think it was so easy for Trump to end it? A majority of Obama's legacy rested on what he did with his "pen and phone" and not what he did through Congress.

Quote:
The DNC is taking a page from the republican playbook and using the spending bill to get what they want. You know the answer to your question already, but you like to pretend that only the opposing side does anything wrong.

They are abusing the system for their own gains. DACA has nothing to do with the spending bill, it isn't even related. Shutting down the govt in favor of "rights" for illegal immigrants is the wrong side of an issue. It won't go over well for the DNC in Nov.
At least the GOP shutdown the govt and didn't pass a spending bill because they wanted to control the spending and keep the debt ceiling from going out of control. DACA isn't even in the same ballpark as the debt ceiling.

Quote:
I didn't like it when the republicans did it. I don't like it now either. But there's not secret as to why they're doing it.

It's no secret, they are putting illegal immigrants before the American people, Nov will tell the tail.

Quote:
f I were in charge, I'd have a path of citizenship for every immigrant that can step foot on American soil (but especially DREAMERs who were brought here through no fault of their own).

"Through no fault of their own" has no standing in law, it's an emotional argument meant to pervert the law and gain voters for the DNC, it serves no other purpose. Their fault or not, we can't reward bad behavior, I say let them stay but no citizenship.

Quote:
I believe immigrants make America the glorious place that it is.

America makes America a glorious place. Immigrants have made America great, but we have a lessened need for immigrants than we did in centuries past. If we can't employee current citizens, we shouldn't be importing labor. It's good to see some big companies choosing to have their 2nd HQ's here in the US, Apply and Amazon are the biggest ones of course. Can they import labor? Sure, but lets make sure Americans are first in line for those jobs and promote the skills they need to get those jobs. We need more engineers and less social studies degrees, graduation rates bare this out.

Quote:
I think the birth-lottery is a shitty reason to deny someone the freedoms and society that they want to live in.

This is the second time I have seen this BS phrase from someone who thinks like you do. Birth-lottery? Do you think you are some soul who roams the earth until your # is called and you are lucky or unlucky to be born where you are? Big piles of bullshit!
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 01:03 pm
@maporsche,
I know! Bernie is a dangerous communist bent on taking away good people's porsches.

A pitty that so many Americans agree with his policies, and did not vote for your favorite corporate spokeperson.
revelette1
 
  3  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 01:21 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Who is responsible for the result of a failed attempt at extortion? The party that tried it, or the party that refused to give in to it?


I don't know, why don't you ask House republicans that question?

Quote:
“Stop the obstruction. Stop the games. There’s no good reason to punish children,” said House Republican Conference Chairwoman Cathy McMorris Rodgers (R-WA) on Wednesday night. “Not only are they voting to shut down the government, they’re voting to deny children access to critical health care when they need it.”


I guess you can't, as usual, Trump butted in confused the issue.
Quote:


“CHIP should be part of a long term solution, not a 30 Day, or short term, extension!” Trump wrote.


TP

Don't ya'll ever get tired of being on the wrong side of every moral issue? I mean if it was a bad thing to do, the democrats would have to fold, but since it is an issue which most Americans agree with, we might just get away with it. If democrats don't cave.


0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  4  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 03:33 pm
@Baldimo,
You don't think that you were lucky to be born in America, versus say, Iran?

I thank my lucky stars almost every day that I was born in a country and in a situation that gave me opportunity to do well.

If not luck, then what? Was it skill that you were born in America?



Have you ever heard the phrase "he was born on third base and celebrates like he hit a triple"
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 03:47 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
You don't think that you were lucky to be born in America, versus say, Iran?

Why would I have been born in Iran? My parents were US citizens, where else would I have been born?

Quote:
I thank my lucky stars almost every day that I was born in a country and in a situation that gave me opportunity to do well.

You think it was luck that you were born here, and not by choices made by your parents and grandparents? If you were not born to them, you wouldn't be you.

Quote:
Have you ever heard the phrase "he was born on third base and celebrates like he hit a triple"

This usually applies to rich people and was used against the Bush's when they were running for President. How you think it applies to where someone is born is the interesting part.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 03:47 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

I know! Bernie is a dangerous communist bent on taking away good people's porsches.

A pitty that so many Americans agree with his policies, and did not vote for your favorite corporate spokeperson.

Wooooohoooo!

Why are people afraid of this?!
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 03:54 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
I know! Bernie is a dangerous communist bent on taking away good people's porsches.

When his scam doesn't work that is the direction he would have to take.

Quote:
A pitty that so many Americans agree with his policies, and did not vote for your favorite corporate spokeperson.

So many Americans agree with his policies and don't have an understanding of how much their own taxes would have to go up to give away all the free stuff he wants to give away.
layman
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 03:58 pm
@Baldimo,
Quote:
So many Americans agree with his policies and don't have an understanding of how much their own taxes would have to go up to give away all the free stuff he wants to give away.


I don't know about that, Baldy. Most of the American who agree with him don't pay taxes. And of course they have no qualms at all if YOUR taxes go up so they can get more free ****, eh?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 06:38 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
We already have the Green Party. It is failing to attract very much support from the people.

If I don't see some movement on the SHARE Act, Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act, and Veterans 2nd Amendment Protection Act, I'll probably be throwing all my votes to the Green Party in 2018.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 06:41 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
“Nothing that [Clinton] did was more clear than the NATO coalition that she built to defend civilians in Libya,” said Sloat, referencing the Obama administration’s overthrow of Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi. That policy, spearheaded by Clinton, has transformed a once-stable state into a lawless haven for extremist groups from across the region, including ISIS.

That is a vast improvement over Kadaffy.


Lash wrote:
Kagan has advocated for muscular American intervention in Syria; Clinton’s likely pick for Pentagon chief, Michelle Flournoy, has similarly agitated for redirecting U.S. airstrikes in Syria toward ousting Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

Assad is a genocidal monster. I don't know if airstrikes would have done much good, but I can't see how they would have done any harm.


Lash wrote:
“I know Hillary cares more about Ukraine than the current president does,” Kagan replied. “[Obama] said to me [that he wouldn’t arm Ukraine because] he doesn’t want a nuclear war with Russia,” he added, rolling his eyes dismissively. “I don’t think Obama cares about Putin anymore at all. I think he’s hopeless.”

The Trump Administration is giving advanced anti-tank missiles to Ukraine.

Expensive ones too. Literally a quarter million dollars per shot.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 06:42 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
She was warhawk talking against Iran and Russia, among others. She was pushing boots on the ground in Syria.
She's the unadulterated darling of the military industrial complex.

War is good. It is how we protect ourselves from those who try to harm us.

The military industrial complex are the people who protect us from the bad guys.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 06:43 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
What's the knock, here? That the Dems have changed their views on issues over times, in response to their base changing their views, or that they are all (including the base) just a bunch of hypocrites, who don't really care about sexual abuse at all?

The second one.

There are no evolving views here. The Democrats spewed the same sort of feminist claptrap in the 1990s right up until they placed Bill Clinton above the law.

If a future Democratic leader commits a bunch of felonies and sexual abuse, the Democrats will abandon their current "principles" just as quickly as they abandoned them in the 1990s.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 06:44 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
You know Cyclops,

1) people NEVER change their minds on societal issues.
2) people don't change their opinions with age.
3) democrats born in the 80's and 90's (even the 2000's right now) who were 8 years old when this happened and were more concerned about afternoon cartoons MUST be saddled with all the wrongs of the past.

The Democrats are a party of hypocrites who place themselves above the law.

If you wish to support enforcement of the law, I advise having nothing to do with the Democratic Party.

If you are associated with the Democratic Party, you'll be tainted with their hypocrisy by default.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 08:02 pm
@edgarblythe,
Bruce Bartlett wrote:
The election of Obama seemed to drive even moderate Republicans over the edge into hysterical hatred and opposition, egged on by the so-called tea party, which consisted entirely of people who knew absolutely nothing about government or policy except that they were mad as hell.

The Democrats like to push this myth, but it isn't true.

That is the way that Democrats behave towards Republican presidents, but it is not the way that Republicans behave towards Democratic presidents.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 08:04 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Afghanistan is a true mess.  Now entering its 17th year, the war in that infamous graveyard of empires has left the U.S. military short on answers.
Afghan Security Forces (ASF), the foundation of American “strategy” there, are being killed and wounded at an unsustainable rate.  And all that sacrifice — to the tune of perhaps 20,000 ASF casualties annually — has delivered precious little in the way of stability.  More Afghan provinces and districts are contested or under direct Taliban control today than at any time in these years of American intervention.  Corruption is still endemic in the government and the military and few rural Afghans seem to consider the regime in Kabul legitimate.
It’s all been so futile that it borders on the absurd.  Without an indefinite influx of Western money, training, and logistical support, the Afghan government simply cannot hold out.  Despite the efforts of hundreds of thousands of American troops and countless bureaucrats, Washington has never been able to deal with or alter the essential quandary that lies at the heart of the Afghan mission: the Taliban still counts on sanctuary in the tribal borderlands of Pakistan and so long as that’s available — and it seems it will be in perpetuity — there is no way to militarily defeat them.  Besides, the Taliban harbor no discernible transnational aspirations and most al-Qaeda operatives have long since left Afghanistan’s mountains for other locales throughout the Greater Middle East.
Mr. Trump’s generals and their troops on the ground have no answers to these confounding challenges.  One thing is guaranteed: 3,000, or even 50,000 more troops won’t break the stalemate, nor will loosing some of the last Vietnam-era B-52s to bomb the countryside.  When I last surged into Afghanistan myself in 2011-2012, I was joined by more than 100,000 fellow Americans.  It didn’t matter.  We achieved about as much as this current “strategy” will: stasis.

What is wrong with stasis?

With just a few thousand soldiers in Afghanistan, we can keep the current government propped up and dronestrike anyone we like forever.

What's the downside? Let's keep up the current status quo in Afghanistan for a few thousand years and see how it turns out.


Quote:
When it comes to Syria, can anyone articulate a coherent strategy in the devastated ruins of that country amid a byzantine network of factions, terror groups, and the once again ascendant government and military of Bashar al-Assad?

I can:

Build an international consensus that no sanctions will be relaxed against either Russia or Syria until the UN Security Council confers jurisdiction to the International Criminal Court to investigate and prosecute any and all war crimes in the Syrian war.


Quote:
U.S.-sponsored, mainly Kurdish forces, backed by American air power and artillery, seized ISIS’s self-proclaimed capital, Raqqa, and helped turn the militants of the Islamic State back into a guerilla force. Now what? Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Syrian President Assad, Russian President Vladimir Putin, and the Iranians all loathe the Kurds and are none-too-keen to allow them any form of long-term autonomy.

Give the Kurds whatever heavy weapons they need in order to defend themselves.


Quote:
Washington’s efforts in Yemen and North Africa have been and continue to be nothing if not counterproductive. In Yemen, the United States is complicitin the Saudi blockading and terror bombing of the poorest Arab state and a resultant famine and cholera outbreak that could affect millions, especially children. This campaign isn’t winning America any friends on the “Arab street” and only seems to have empowered al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.

Actually this bombing campaign has prevented al-Qa'ida from taking over Yemen.

It has also prevented Iran from taking over Yemen.

A good result overall.


Quote:
In Africa, from Nigeria to Somalia, infusions of U.S. troops have not measurably improved regional stability. Quite the opposite, despite the protestations of U.S. Africa Command. In fact, there are now more radical Islamist groups than ever before and terrorist attacks have all but exploded on that continent.

We need to do a lot more killing in Africa.

That village that helped al-Qa'ida ambush our soldiers, is it still standing?

If so, why? And how quickly can we burn it down?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 08:09 pm
@hightor,
But you didn't answer my question
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 08:09 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:
Not really, the reality is if ever a day comes when we have universal health care, the Insurance companies and their employees are going to be without a job regardless any motives people in congress may have had to vote against it. Hopefully if that day comes, we would have some kind of plan in place to deal with the loss of an entire industry and their employees.

Obamacare isn't universal health care?

Anyway, those jobs don't have to go anywhere if we use a market-based system of universal health care like Germany and some other countries do.

Plus we'd get to have a market that would force companies to improve their health care services.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 08:10 pm
@maporsche,
I'm having a little trouble following you on this.

Bottom line: Is getting what the Dems want on DACA worth shutting down the government?

Yes or No
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 19 Jan, 2018 08:19 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
For instance on bipartisanship. This is an obsolete idea. You can't work with this crop of republicans. They are brain dead. Obama tried to work with them for 8 years and couldn't get anything done.

That's a myth that the Democrats push to justify Obama's failures as president.

In Obama's first term, the Republican leadership tried to work with him and even reached a deal on tax increases and spending cuts. Then Obama gave in to leftist extremists who demanded that he scrap the deal and demand a bigger tax increase, and it all fell apart.

Obama started his second term by wasting all of his political capital in fruitless attacks against the NRA. Afterwards he had nothing left to push an agenda. Attacking the NRA was his own foolishness, nothing to do with Republicans.

Near the end of his presidency moderate Republicans were preparing to make a deal with Obama on immigration reform. Obama immediately undercut those moderate Republicans by making provocative executive orders on immigration reform.
0 Replies
 
 

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