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Lack of Men

 
 
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 06:31 am
Saw this article on the BBC site and found it interesting. Since women now form the majority of university graduates in more and more countries. Therefore many of them will have to marry less educated men or stay single.

The story of Miranda and Steve from Sex and the City comes to mind. That shouldn't a problem, should it? Yet in the series, Miranda could not do it, and the article below implies she's not the only one struggling with this new reality.

---------------

Women graduates 'desperately' freeze eggs over 'lack of men'

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-40504076

Professional women are freezing their eggs due to a "dearth of educated men to marry", a US study has claimed.

Yale University researchers suggested an "oversupply" of graduate women left them struggling to find a partner and "desperate" to preserve fertility.

They said the "man deficit" was worse in countries where more women were going to university, as in the UK.

The researchers interviewed 150 women who had frozen eggs, of whom 90% said they could not find a suitable partner.

Author Prof Marcia Inhorn said the research challenged perceptions that women put off having a baby so they could prioritise their job.

"Extensive media coverage suggests that educational and career ambitions are the main determinants of professional women's fertility postponement, especially as they 'lean in' to their careers," she said.

"Rather, they were desperately preserving their fertility beyond the natural end of their reproductive lives, because they were single without partners to marry."

'Buying time'

Speaking at the European Society of Human Reproduction and Embryology conference in Geneva, Switzerland, Prof Inhorn thought there were "not enough graduates for them".

In the majority of cases the women, who were treated at eight IVF clinics in the US and Israel and interviewed between June 2014 to August 2016, said they could not find an educated man who was willing to commit to family life.

"Women lamented the 'missing men' in their lives, viewing egg freezing as a way to buy time while on the continuing - online - search for a committed partner," Prof Inhorn said.

'Painful process'

Prof Adam Balen, president of the British Fertility Society, said that he had noticed a "big shift" in UK society, with many university-educated women delaying starting a family.

"In my clinic I certainly see more older women seeking fertility treatment than in the past," he said.

The research comes amid a sex imbalance at British universities. In the academic year 2015-2016, 56% of UK students were women and 44% men, according to the Higher Education Statistics Agency.

Prof Balen warned that freezing eggs can be a painful and costly process.

"Freezing eggs for a future pregnancy is not a decision to be taken lightly," he said.

"The technology in egg freezing has improved a great deal but it is still no guarantee of a baby later in life.

"Women choosing to 'bank' eggs until they are ready to start a family have to go through painful procedures and what can be a difficult regime of medications - this is not without potential risks to the woman undertaking the procedure."
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Type: Discussion • Score: 14 • Views: 4,413 • Replies: 91

 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 07:24 am
@Olivier5,
This is funny... These women hold gender stereotypes that are preventing them from being happy.

Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 09:18 am
@maxdancona,
I agree, if you mean the stereotype that "a husband needs to be at least as educated as his wife if not more". (similar to "at least as rich as his wife if not more", or "at least as old...")

I always thought Steve was exactly the mate Miranda needed, but he wasn't someone she could be socially proud of, in her world.

For those who haven't watched Sex & the City, Miranda was a high-flying lawyer and Steve was a baryender. They both loved each other but Miranda could not deal with the difference in earnings and education.

Evidently, the show writers were arguing for a relaxation of these stupid stereotypes which prevent women from being happy.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 09:21 am
@Olivier5,
Educated men don't have this hangup. We don't have any problem marrying someone who doesn't have our level of education.

In any relationship, someone has to do the laundry.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 09:21 am
@Olivier5,
Sad situation and sad stereotype judgment...
No PHD or college degree will grant anyone wisdom. Did they look for wise guys rather then professional peers and they would be doing just fine...
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 09:24 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Wisdom? No one wants to marry a wise guy.

College education is a pretty good indicator of social status and earning potential. These are the things that matter most in a marriage.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 09:27 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
They both loved each other but Miranda could not deal with the difference in earnings and education.


in the real world, I've discovered that's a two-way problem. Both men and women can have issues with what some perceive as wrong-way differentials.

It came up years ago with a friend of Set's who I encouraged strongly to ask out a woman he was very interested in and who appeared to be very interested in him. She was a university professor. He had a range of jobs from pizza delivery to scrapping and glass installation. He absolutely refused to ask her out. He said he couldn't as she was well-educated and had a good career. I found it quite odd as the majority of couples in my immediate circle have women as the primary earners.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 09:59 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:
It came up years ago with a friend of Set's who I encouraged strongly to ask out a woman he was very interested in and who appeared to be very interested in him. She was a university professor. He had a range of jobs from pizza delivery to scrapping and glass installation. He absolutely refused to ask her out. He said he couldn't as she was well-educated and had a good career. I found it quite odd as the majority of couples in my immediate circle have women as the primary earners.


Hmmm this is very interesting... There is an question here that shows the pervasiveness of gender stereotypes.

Why didn't you encourage her to ask him out?

Men, even men of a lower social status, are expected to take the initiative in any relationship. This is a gender stereotype that remains largely unquestioned. (There are a few exceptions, but in the vast majority of relationships it is still the man who makes the first move).

0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 10:11 am
@maxdancona,
"Earning potential?" "Social status"? hahaha! Sheesh, peer reassurance?...dear Lord...oh what a joke man...Ya got to be kidding me...au revoir n good luck!
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 10:17 am
@maxdancona,
Yep...
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 10:19 am
@ehBeth,
Of course, it cuts both ways.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 10:20 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
Really Fil?

You may want to think that human beings are idealistic; and that they select mates for their wisdom and heart. But in the real world, it doesn't work that way. Social status, wealth and earning potential play a big part of how women choose mates. Youth and sexual attractiveness are a big part of how men choose mates.

How do you explain that rich, powerful pudgy men are often married to younger, beautiful women?

ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 10:23 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
I agree 100% with this

Quote:
No PHD or college degree will grant anyone wisdom.


__

It's something that my dad always had trouble understanding. He could never figure out why people who were well-educated still managed to make relationship mistakes. He was raised to believe that smart was smart. My mother used to try to explain that education didn't give people street smarts.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 12:20 pm
@maxdancona,
You had half a point regarding a big group of animals on which females are looking for a provider in males to reassure offspring success and lost that half by reducing modern women to brainless gold diggers...

...not to deny that some are like that. There are also 3% of psychopaths in the ecosystem and I am sure there is some logic regarding their role of keeping us awake and alert as a society...yeah everything has a "raison dĂȘtre" even flies!

...the point was that financial balance is essential in the family group as a whole not that A needs B to be a peer at earning money...for starters because there is paper money and other odd sources of value one being intellectual prowess, sensibility, common sense, parenthood skills etc...all valuable "money".
Above all else, good genes, and immune system compatibility...

...as for "social status" I have only one. Intelectual parity. Any other is sheer nonsense. if there is an elite at all in the world they are intelectuals and a big chunk of them were always poor. Paid by "burgois" top middle class want be with the smart gang most lived a humble yet complete life.

Back on topic, there is a bunch ton of unconscious criteria that is going on.
In my narrow group of desirable women making tons or none money is the very least of my concerns. By the way, I often do the dishes back home while my wife is making money teaching piano and lyric singing. I couldn't live without her...in the least I would never be the same again. She swears for the last 13 years with me that she would die after me or would go crazy if I died...
I believe her to her word to the point of worrying with my health for a change.

Had she ever come talking about parity and earnings and she would get the door when I met her...you see most men are dogs, sperm is cheap and they have poor criteria on women. Not my case. Europe to some extent doesn't have this problem.

By the way, back here in Portugal for instance, no man pays for dating...its considered condescending and looks bad.
rosborne979
 
  5  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 12:23 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Professional women are freezing their eggs due to a "dearth of educated men to marry", a US study has claimed.

Meanwhile, men are banking sperm due to a "dearth of hot super-models to marry".
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 01:25 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Your mistake is that you seem to think that humans aren't animals. The majority of men look first for signs of sexual beauty in a woman. The majority of women look first for signs of power and wealth in a man. You may think that things should be different... but in the real world, that is simply how humans work.

I want to write a further response.... but after reading your post I feel the desire to go find myself an attractive Portuguese woman.
Fil Albuquerque
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 01:30 pm
@maxdancona,
My wife is taken!... Very Happy

...I know what you mean but no...there is more to it then it meets the eye.
(at least for some groups)
You keep missing out on the point complex forms of value in detriment of linear money are subconsciously evaluated by females...
ossobucotemp
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 01:35 pm
@maxdancona,
Brains and thoughtfulness are a tad more important to some of us women in the real world than power and wealth.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 01:44 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Quote:
You keep missing out on the point complex forms of value in detriment of linear money are subconsciously evaluated by females...


Don't mistake the way you think things should be with the way things are. I am a single middle aged guy.

I know very well the kind of women that guys want to be with (I am a man who hangs out with men). Men care very much about physical appearance and body type. I don't think you are even contesting this. But this also gives us a logical way to determine what traits women want.

You find the most desirable women (who can choose any man they want) and you look at the men they choose to be with. Those are the most desirable men. Men who are educated and idealistic rarely have physically desirable spouses or girlfriends unless they are also tall and wealthy.

Height, wealth and power are the most desirable qualities in men as judged by the majority of women. You see this not only in normal life, but also in Portuguese soap operas. (Tell me about the mistress of the president of Portugal.... she is quite attractive compared to Sousa.)
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Jul, 2017 01:46 pm
@ossobucotemp,
ossobucotemp wrote:

Brains and thoughtfulness are a tad more important to some of us women in the real world than power and wealth.


Not very many women Osso. Talk to single middle aged men with brains or thoughtfulness (without height or power). They are on the bottom of the dating pecking order when it comes to women.

Men and women are equally shallow when it comes to picking a romantic partner.
 

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